Dissapointed with plucking and acell any advice going forward !

[ejj]

To Clarify :

I have had 5 prior strip procedures .

December 09 I had the most recent whereby 2000 grafts were taken from 3 strips and grafted to the frontal third of my head .

The donor area where the strips were taken from was treated with acell, to aid healing , there was NO scar revision . the donor area was sutured not stapled .

600 Beard Hairs were plucked from my chin and placed in and around the PRE -EXISTING scar shown in the 3 before pictures none grew .

The photos show 3 prior, 3 at one week and 3 at 12 months , with 2 added of the lower scar .

Allthough I am a repair patient , I was told this acell treatment is beneficial to repair patients .

The lower scar is approx 10 cms x 2 cms , this is unlike scar tissue as its smooth and flat however to me it is non hair - bare-ing scalp .

The 2 nd scar above my left ear is similar , however a lot wider in parts

The 3rd scar above my right ear appears to have healed a lot better than the other 2.

I expected the donor area to be improved , not made worse , Im devastated about the results of the donor area, in particular where the 2 strips ( pictured ) were taken from which have clearly widened .

In my opinion I had one large scar to address when I embarked on my last surgery whereas I now have another 2 to deal with .

If anyone has been in a similar situation it would be interesting to see how you moved forward , revision , fue ,etc

I have on many occassions spoken with my Dr and yes , I have been offered a free revision , however i dont think that is an option for me at this moment in time .

Thanks in advance for any advice

Ej

[HairRobinHood]

recepient side

The goal was to thicken the frontal third.
Eddy

Eddy, I took the time to seriously review & reconstruct your case (derived from all your given information). Without any further comment, I have 1 question:

You mentioned that you had 5 strip procedures (all in all, prior and including the procedure in Dec 2009). I guess (you didn't mention that) that you had all in all (derived from all 5 strips) about ~4000 grafts into your frontal recipient area? Am I right?

So, my QUESTION is, are you -at least- satisfied with the results (from ALL 5 strips) in your recipient side (including from the 2 new strips by Dr. Cooley)? Did the most of all your transplanted grafts into the recipient side ever grow? Are you satisfied with the recipient side results (hairline, density etc)?

YES or NO ?

[RichardDawkins]

To Clarify :

I have had 5 prior strip procedures .

December 09 I had the most recent whereby 2000 grafts were taken from 3 strips and grafted to the frontal third of my head .

The donor area where the strips were taken from was treated with acell, to aid healing , there was NO scar revision . the donor area was sutured not stapled .

600 Beard Hairs were plucked from my chin and placed in and around the PRE -EXISTING scar shown in the 3 before pictures none grew .

The photos show 3 prior, 3 at one week and 3 at 12 months , with 2 added of the lower scar .

Allthough I am a repair patient , I was told this acell treatment is beneficial to repair patients .

The lower scar is approx 10 cms x 2 cms , this is unlike scar tissue as its smooth and flat however to me it is non hair - bare-ing scalp .

The 2 nd scar above my left ear is similar , however a lot wider in parts

The 3rd scar above my right ear appears to have healed a lot better than the other 2.

I expected the donor area to be improved , not made worse , Im devastated about the results of the donor area, in particular where the 2 strips ( pictured ) were taken from which have clearly widened .

In my opinion I had one large scar to address when I embarked on my last surgery whereas I now have another 2 to deal with .

If anyone has been in a similar situation it would be interesting to see how you moved forward , revision , fue ,etc

I have on many occassions spoken with my Dr and yes , I have been offered a free revision , however i dont think that is an option for me at this moment in time .

Thanks in advance for any advice

Ej

You should consider the free revision and try to go for plucked scalp hair rather then ebard or bodyhair.

It seems that due to the years passed since your ht strip transplants, the scars need some time to getting better.

And i know that the large scar is softer but blank without hair. But believe it or not this could be a good sign for future approaches to plant hair.

You should really try to go for the free revision and also get another round of acell done. It could be especially important because one scar is going flatter and softer. You should try to work with this scar first and secondly with the one above your ear which seems to heal better then the other ones.

Can you say something about the time you got those transplants done, also which year and if its ok which doctor did perform this.

And i have another question, do you think that ypur laxity has increased? Like before it was a little stretchy and now its more comfortable?

Because on the pictures it seems that Acell has in fact grew normal skin

[Spanish Dude]

ejj:

you say that Cooley took you 3 strips, but from the pictures I see:

-you had had 3 previous strips (back, left and right). The right scar being overexpanded (and bald).
-Cooley took you 2 new strips (left and back), resulting in 2k grafts for the frontal area. Not clear if these were done over the old ones or in paralell.
-These 2 new wounds were treated with Acell.
-Cooley placed 600 beard autoplucked hairs on the (previous) right scar (which was quite expanded and bald).

The results:
-None of the 600 beard autoplucked beard hairs grew.
-The 2 new wounds, treated with Acell, expanded wildly after 13 months, and new tissue was normal (not scar) and bald.

Total result: now you have 3 wide bald "scars" (L,R,B). Two of them of normal tissue (new, L,B) and the other one scar tissue (old, R).

Well, maybe you have 5 scars, not 3, if the new strips were taken in paralell, and not over the old ones.

ejj, tell me if I am right in my observations.


Q: do you think the "expansion" has ended in these 2 new wounds, or do you think they will expand further in the next months?

thanks for sharing your experience.

[topcat]

EJ, obviously the area where the strip was taken and Acell was used looks worse than when you started, not really one’s objective when going in for cosmetic surgery. With that being said I don’t think I would try revising that scar and certainly not with the same doctor. The skin can stretch only so much before you experience unintended consequences. For instance I have the white wall tire effect around my ears along with a very high neck hairline, something Dr. Brandy conveniently left out when he explained his new and improved procedure. I speak with dozens and dozens of patients and all the Brandy patients have this same problem.

This Acell and plucking is very experimental and I have yet to see pictures of a small test area of approximately 1 sq cm with and appreciable amount of hair growing. Plucking 600 beard hairs seem like an awfully high number for something that has no proven results. These doctors have a moral and ethical obligation to only perform a very small test procedure and prevent patients from doing anything drastic. We look to physicians for guidance and this is why they take the Hippocratic Oath. Maybe it’s just me but there are things that in my line of work my customers will ask for, but if I think it’s not safe or dangerous I will refuse to do it. I have to be able to go home and sleep at night and live with myself if something bad happens.

Thank you for taking the time to share your experience as it takes effort. Of course we all hope for advancements, but no one should be taken advantage of. As for those that reply negatively to your words, I suggest they grow a set and get in the chair. We all would love to hear about your experience.

Pvtpoint, when will you be posting your results, it’s been a long time. I love how these posters just disappear and where is that Nalts guy while I am on the subject of disappearing acts.

Dr. Cooley do the right thing and give this patient his money back you should be embarssed to keep it.

[RichardDawkins]

Lets wait until ejj is back and can give us more informations about his strip ops in general.

And he should try for the free revision

[rapunzal]

before we start questioning ethics etc lets get the whole picture. i for one would also like to hear Dr Cooley's perspective on the case as well. in particular what i am trying to get my head around is why the doctor attempted to even take 2000 grafts in the first place. the writing was already on the wall from the right side scar and the left back scar (picture 2) pre op should have sounded the alarm bells that it was going to occur on the left if any fuether strips were taken.

[RichardDawkins]

@rapunzal : Nope there is no real threat from HM researchers because in the short run, the only option will be HM performed to grow hairs back the natural way and stop hairloss. And the second thing will be a hairtransplant with Acell to fill in gaps if they are around

[RichardDawkins]

As i said before " CAN lead to a solution" and as long as ejj didnt answer the questions, we dont know exactly what has happened here and if he is speaking the truth.

Even you dont know if he had switched pictures or whatever is happening here. And if you put have attention and effort in your studies you would know that bodyhair and beard hair has not a good yield rate. And scar tissue also no high yield rate, especially when it comes to bad scars.

And here in this case those factors come together like horse and carriage. It is remarkable that his scar has even become softer. This shows that in a hard case there can be improvement but maybe in two or more sessions.

Thats why he should do the revision and use plucked scalp hair to see what will happen there.

Here in this case we have a repair patient as i stated and saw it (ejj confirmed it without even mentioning it in the first place) so there are other laws of Acell then on a person without a prior hair transplant.

I think you catch me drift here.

[topcat]

For those that suggest EJ have another revision you can check my donor photos towards the end of my "follow my major repair" thread. Notice the side scalp view and the raised hairless area around the ear. This is what I believe will be the likely outcome of another revision for EJ. You can only stretch the scalp so far before you experience unintended consequences.

Some of the posters here and on the other forums would do best to listen to some of the long time vets that have been around for a long time. There only seems to be handful left.

[RichardDawkins]

For those that suggest EJ have another revision you can check my donor photos towards the end of my "follow my major repair" thread. Notice the side scalp view and the raised hairless area around the ear. This is what I believe will be the likely outcome of another revision for EJ. You can only stretch the scalp so far before you experience unintended consequences.

Some of the posters here and on the other forums would do best to listen to some of the long time vets that have been around for a long time. There only seems to be handful left.

Thats the reason why ejj should come back and talk with us about his matter cause he said that he has different results, in a good and a bad way. And there its interesting to hear whats behind this for future repair patients.

[RichardDawkins]

The only thing i believe in is: No strip transplants anymore. Cause what do we see? Almost weekly more and more repair patients arrive on the scene. And thats why its important to get Acell working at his high prime and also get unlimited donor with using FUE and/or plucking but not with strip transplants.

And if i would believe we were in the 80s or 90s in concearn of options, i would say "Hey folks get your mega FUT session done and a flap" but i dont say it because i believe in regenerating technologies.

Even with my strong beliefs in Acell i wouldnt say it can be that perfect to FUT in general. That Acell can guarantee unlimited Donor by using FUE this is plausible and achievable when researched further into. But with a FUT scar, your only option is to resize the scar even with Acell no miracles can be done "so far". But this can change when a little bit more fine tuning is done.

And no i wouldnt call anyone butchered bastard or stuff like this, this is just plain horrible to assume such things to my persona.

Especially not in topcats case. I would rather call him realist who knows exactly what he wants.

[ejj]

Hi Rapunzal ,

Yes I have spoken to my Dr and continue to do so , but as of yet have not seen him , basically he is as dissapointed as I am with the donor area . The beard area where the extractions were taken from healed perfectly and the beard continues to grow as normal in the extracted sites .

Richard sorry if I did not make it clear in the beginning that I am in fact a repair patient I assumed my clarification post with the 3 before pictures would of confirmed this , sorry for any confusion .

Robin Hood , I think you are approx right with around 4k grafts to the frontal third , its hard to determine the results when you graft into existing hair especially for the 6th time , I think vascularity may be compromised being a repair patient is very different to working with virgin scalp .

In the interest of transparancy and to be fair , somewhere between 10 - 12 days post op I had a family member drop a trunk ( car boot ) on my head that resulted in a 1 cm in length and 2mm width scar about 2cms into my hairline , I am a medical ` layman ` and unsure if this compromised or affected growth , as for satisfied I would say be nice to have more density , I must stress that growth in the frontal third was not the reason for my post , I wanted opinions advice on the donor area thats why I was specific towards that area .

Richard Re Laxity I have not noticed any difference other than the usual tightness after the procedure and the few months after , regarding new skin thats exactly my point !! Its new hairless skin hence perhaps a standard closure may of been better in my opinion

Spanish Dude , yes I believe the expansion stopped shortly after the 3 month time period

Previous strips are 5 not 3
right scar more of a permanent shock loss that never grew back hence the smooth appearence .3 strips were removed one from above the left ear , one from the lower back of head , one from above right ear , only the lower one back of the head was in an untouched area .

Robin Hood your qs mark in red does point to the 3rd strip

Richard the PRIOR Scar was allready soft , in photos it looks like a huge scar the majority of it is permanent shockloss , this right hand side scar was my major concern it was caused by NHI Greece about 8years ago , this area troubles me , the two new areas are very UNLIKE regular scar tissue they resemble slightly discolured scalp , options as you state are to either revise them with more trauma to the scalp of graft into them , taking in to account the costs involved would it not be better just to have a standard closure ?

Richard strip vs fue controversial subject , I would obviously say Fue only , however patients who have had good strip would dissagree with me !!

The donor area above my right ear seemed to heal a lot better than the others , my purpose of posting was not to attack or accuse anyone , but to try and get some informed opinions from people who have either undergone revision repair or our considering it , Basically Im looking for opinions on how to proceed .

regards

ejj

[topcat]

Trust me I am way behind anyone hurting my feelings by commenting on my photos. I get along very well in life, but unfortunately I can’t say that about so many others that I have spoken to which is too bad.

I interact with more people face to face than the average person and I have no issues whatsoever. I also do some public speaking as a hobby and have no problem being in front of an audience. Confidence is in your head not on top of your head. But of course I would still like to improve my situation because that is how I live my life. I strive to improve.

I think it would benefit EJ if some of the posters giving advice would tell us a little bit about yourselves and you experience in this industry.
It’s very easy for many here to say just go back and get the free revision as you are not in his shoes. I’m sure if some of the posters here or the forum owners or moderators experienced a similar situation, they would be singing a different tune.

Would you actually go back to someone who billed you for this work in hopes of getting some more for free? Sure take my other eye out why don’t you. I understand this is experimental but the doctor has an obligation to proceed with caution.

[RichardDawkins]

Hi Rapunzal ,

Yes I have spoken to my Dr and continue to do so , but as of yet have not seen him , basically he is as dissapointed as I am with the donor area . The beard area where the extractions were taken from healed perfectly and the beard continues to grow as normal in the extracted sites .

Richard sorry if I did not make it clear in the beginning that I am in fact a repair patient I assumed my clarification post with the 3 before pictures would of confirmed this , sorry for any confusion .

Robin Hood , I think you are approx right with around 4k grafts to the frontal third , its hard to determine the results when you graft into existing hair especially for the 6th time , I think vascularity may be compromised being a repair patient is very different to working with virgin scalp .

In the interest of transparancy and to be fair , somewhere between 10 - 12 days post op I had a family member drop a trunk ( car boot ) on my head that resulted in a 1 cm in length and 2mm width scar about 2cms into my hairline , I am a medical ` layman ` and unsure if this compromised or affected growth , as for satisfied I would say be nice to have more density , I must stress that growth in the frontal third was not the reason for my post , I wanted opinions advice on the donor area thats why I was specific towards that area .

Richard Re Laxity I have not noticed any difference other than the usual tightness after the procedure and the few months after , regarding new skin thats exactly my point !! Its new hairless skin hence perhaps a standard closure may of been better in my opinion

Spanish Dude , yes I believe the expansion stopped shortly after the 3 month time period

Previous strips are 5 not 3
right scar more of a permanent shock loss that never grew back hence the smooth appearence .3 strips were removed one from above the left ear , one from the lower back of head , one from above right ear , only the lower one back of the head was in an untouched area .

Robin Hood your qs mark in red does point to the 3rd strip

Richard the PRIOR Scar was allready soft , in photos it looks like a huge scar the majority of it is permanent shockloss , this right hand side scar was my major concern it was caused by NHI Greece about 8years ago , this area troubles me , the two new areas are very UNLIKE regular scar tissue they resemble slightly discolured scalp , options as you state are to either revise them with more trauma to the scalp of graft into them , taking in to account the costs involved would it not be better just to have a standard closure ?

Richard strip vs fue controversial subject , I would obviously say Fue only , however patients who have had good strip would dissagree with me !!

The donor area above my right ear seemed to heal a lot better than the others , my purpose of posting was not to attack or accuse anyone , but to try and get some informed opinions from people who have either undergone revision repair or our considering it , Basically Im looking for opinions on how to proceed .

regards

ejj

Thank you very much for your answers

One thing, yes the trunk can in fact cause some healing problems. Thats a problem some patients have when the bounce their head against something :-(
Its sad to hear that this was also involved.

Its good to hear that your plucked beard hair grows as normal as you would expect it.

So you are also saying that the prominent problem is, when we consider it, that Acell did heal well but it produces too much normal and therefore blank tissue without hair and you would be more happy if it would be just a tiny scar without Acell instead.

Have you spoken to Dr Cooley about this matter and what he advises you?

Thank god your are "satisfied" with your frontal growing. Its sad to hear that such things happen to you even considered a procedure 8 years ago where docs should have been more carefully.