HT regret, looking for help

[CHB88]

I'm really regretting my experience right now and I need some help. I had 1000 FUE a year ago into the hairline and I'm fading fast. I'm probably a little worse off right now than I started and things have really sped up in recent months. Finasteride isn't doing much and I'm pretty well resigned to the razor right now.

My concerns right now are with scarring. I've searched high and low and I haven't seen any donor/recipient pics of a razor shave after an HT.

The other problem is that my recpient area isn't smooth, quite noticeable from the rest of my scalp. It also tends to get red from heat such as summertime or showers.

I haven't been able to find much info about dermabrasion or lasering the FUE out which is what I am thinking of right now, however I don't want any more redness. I'm in a rush right now but I'll post more details later.

I really don't know what to do right now, I feel really trapped.

[ryan555]

If you're serious about having the procedure reversed, you need to go see Dr. Cole in Atlanta. He recently reversed a similar procedure for me, but mine was old-style "micro grafts" so probably worse than what you have. I saw 10 doctors (most of the top ones) before going to Cole and he really knows what he is doing with these repairs. He is not cheap, but I think he is undoubtedly the best in the world at reversals.

If you go see 10 doctors like I did, you'll probably get 10 different opinions. They will recommend everything from laser, electrolosis, cutting the skin out, transplanting around the grafts, etc. But the only way to do it right is to FUE them out individually thereby removing all the scar tissue and the resultant pitting/ridging if there is any. Dr. Cole will then suture the whole area which makes the scars healed quickly. He also used PRP to reduce swelling and scarring and to speed up recovery time.

I have seen some of his final results, and they look damn good, even on guys with horrific old style plugs. I am three weeks out from my procedure and I still have a little pinkness but it's really smooth and I think it's going to look great in another few weeks.

[Spex]

CHB88,

Can you share any pics and more info ie doc?

[smileyface19]

Try micro-needling the donor with a derma roller. It will increase the blood supply to the skin, stimulate wnt protein to the donor/recipient site, and add collagen to the skin. You need to use a minimum 0.5mm roller needles to penetrate the epidermis, any shorter is useless and a waste of time and money. The roller is about $75.00 online at the nanogen store in the u.k with shipping to Canada. The reason I chose this roller is because of its titanium micro-needles which don't rust as much as steel or brass, and will last up to 6 months used daily.

Proof of concept - Related articles

A) Wnt-dependent de novo hair follicle regeneration in adult mouse skin after wounding

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v447/n7142/abs/nature05766.html

B) The Doctors Show talking about derma roller

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtFwCNkCwpA

C) Heals Donor Scars

" Hair transplant surgery commonly leaves scars in the donor region; Nanogen's Scalproller has been proven to fade and reduce the appearance of these scars by breaking up scar tissue structures and formations. Plus there is evidence in animal models to show that new hair may grow to conceal the donor area after Scalproller treatment."

D) Encourages New Hair Growth

" The latest research by Intercytex, performed with Dr. Bessam Farjo as principal investigator, has shown that patients receiving superficial injections and controlled wounding grow new hair, which may solely be a result of the controlled skin wounding itself.
This surprising result is correlated by the pioneering work published by Dr. George Cotsarelis of Pennsylvania University, who found that stimulation of the Wnt protein by wounding leads to hair regeneration. Wounding by microneedles would potentially start this Wnt protein mediated growth stimulation, and prevent synthesis of TGF-β2, a protein known to induce hair loss."

Why not give it a try? It's worth a lot less than another surgery that may not give you the results your looking for. From what I've read about this product, it seems to be a great option for people just beginning to lose their hair, but isn't useless for people who've lost their hair already. It also has to be used daily on affected areas. A minimally invasive night time treatment that could potential reduce the need for minoxidil or finasteride for good is worth a shot to me. A lot less expensive and I think worth a shot as well.

There are other posts on this site about Nanogen's Scalproller, especially from Heir2B who hasn't returned to this site since he began using this roller. He grew back the hairline that had receded away within the span of a month, where he didn't have any before.

[CHB88]

I have more time now to detail my journey which hopefully can help someone else make an more informed decision which I was not able to make.

I'm 29 I started shedding a lot in the summer for a few years now. I remember shaking out my sheets on the balcony to get rid of the hair that had fallen out. I noticed a slight notch in my hairline when I was 25, however I hadn't really noticed a big change until maybe 1.5 years ago. Looking back, it was forming since my teen years. Suddenly one side of my hairline was really starting to break up. After a few months of dealing with it I started to look into hair loss and eventually HTs.

I rushed into a non-IAHRS doc who was probably more interested in money than my well being. He did save me from making poorer judgements but on the whole I was not well informed. I didn't know about many of the things I know now. I don't think a lot of people could truly know without experiencing it.

Just over a year ago I had 1000 FUE into the hairline with the intention of patching up the one spot. The doc insisted that the entire hairline had to be done for safety in case of further loss. I agreed not knowing that I have what looks to be a full NW5-6 pattern. Even when shaved down it wasn't obvious and I was happy to think I'd have a new hairline for a few years and possibly return for more. I was told that propecia would halt my hair loss.

Not even a year later and I started to see more and more issues. On regrowth I found out how thin my hair really was. Persistent dandruff appeared that wasn't there before. Persistent itching in the recipient hairline. Spaced grafts. Poor results. Redness under heat. Accelerating shedding even on fin. I'm now trapped.

I'm not sure how effective posting pics would be since I still have a lot of native hair which obscures the scarring and redness. You can really only see it from the proper light sources (flourescent/sunlight) and the right angles but I think it will be fairly obvious if I were to shave down.
Spex, I've actually spoken to you earlier this summer regarding an HT with Dr. Feller. Taking nothing away from his reputation I'm kind of glad I didn't go for it as I don't think I could go through with the experience again.

I'm not saying HTs can't look good, but unless you are an exceptional case (right hair texture) then I find most to be semi-natural looking at best, which is what they are after all. For me, I think I looked fine for a while with what was probably a 30/70 - HT/native hair ratio (at best) but that ratio is quickly fading. The only saving grace is the native hair that is thinning evenly to somewhat match the HT. Some days are better than others.

Sometimes I wish I could just shave it all off and feel okay. I'm sick of constantly wondering if my hair looks okay or unnatural. Looking at other people's hair constantly. Checking razored down guys to see if they have any scarring.
I saw one guy at a restaurant that had the most horrendous HT, tons of grafts but a completely unnatural hairline, poor graft placement and mismatched texture. That really got me thinking poorly of what I had done.
I started to thinking more critically about HTs and I began to notice that the best results were with guys that already had tons of native hair like you, Spex. Guys like Falc look great in photos but who knows how that translates in person.

I'm not saying the scarring is horrendous, rather it probably looks unnatural and I'd feel self-conscious about it daily if I were to be exposed. The redness doesn't help either although it tends to fade as the day goes on. Its more the apprehension of the future that is weighing on me now.

Being bald would probably be much easier right now. I didn't mind shaving down for the HT originally and I wish I had tested it out prior. After a year on fin my hair loss actually sped up but I'm too fearful to stop now. I've been using Nizoral sparingly and Denorex has reduced my dandruff lately but it is still there. I'm still itching in the hairline too.

Smileyface, I appreciate your reaching out and I'll look into this needling device but I have to say that I'm really skeptical about it. If it actually worked for regrowing hair I would think that I would have heard about it for now. I'm pretty worried about infection and making my redness or scarring worse at this point. Maybe others can chime in on this?

All that aside, my current situation is that I can see the grafts by thickness and root under close inspection. I don't know if I can say there is pitting/ridging, but possibly a mild form. Being light skinned the grafts would probably show even if I shaved down every day. In the donor area there is no redness, and the sites are nearly invisible even with my hair at a #1 buzz. I've even tried a #0 and didn't feel awkward, probably because I can't see them. Still, I wouldn't want my sides without the top so I'd have to razor that down exposing the scars which would then probably be very visible.

I don't want to FUE the grafts out since I don't want any more scarring in my hairline. I'm fearful of increased redness and further changes to the skin. I've even thought of damaging the skin behind the hairline to make it look even. Is plucking graft hairs out a bad idea? Would dermabrasion help? Laser? Electrolysis? Nair? I'm not sure what other routes are actually viable.

[ryan555]

I don't want to FUE the grafts out since I don't want any more scarring in my hairline. I'm fearful of increased redness and further changes to the skin. I've even thought of damaging the skin behind the hairline to make it look even. Is plucking graft hairs out a bad idea? Would dermabrasion help? Laser? Electrolysis? Nair? I'm not sure what other routes are actually viable.

You need to go see a good doctor who specializes in repair because you have some serious misconceptions. When done correctly, FUE'ing out the grafts will remove scarring, not create it. Like I said, I had old style mini and micro grafts in my hairline and the FUE removed the underlying scar tissue that was causing the pitting/ridging/scarring. What you're basically left with is smooth skin that usually heals up really nice. Here's an example from Dr. Epstein:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=2960

Dr. Cole also has tons of examples of guys who were butchered with giant "plugs" and who are now happily bald without scars on their head.

[jooder]

If you dont want to undergo more surgery, maybe try a tca peel. Some people with bad acne scarring use a tca 'cross' method. This basically involves putting a high percentage of tca on specific scarred sites. They seem to have a lot of success with it.......... but do your research first.

[CHB88]

Maybe I sound panicked in my previous posts, I admit some days I am worse constantly thinking about it, other days I feel almost okay with it.

You're right Ryan, I don't have any info on removing grafts out but I'd imagine there is scarring just as how I have scarring from the FUE to harvest hair. I'll have to look into it a lot more.
My biggest fear with a reversal would be a result having white scar spots in a reddened bald hairline. Those pics were a fantastic result but I don't know how much of that would translate over to me. I tend to heal well from scars on my face. Pimples, cuts and scrapes don't even show up. In a year I've yet to see that same level of improvement considering how small the recipient wounds are. If I showed you close-up pictures you might laugh at how insignificant it may look, however on a macroscopic level you would probably be able to tell something didn't look right which is ultimately what I'm trying to avoid.

Right now its not so much individual graft scarring that bothers me, rather it seems as though the skin in the recipient hairline is slightly different in colour, smoothness and is more reflective than the skin behind it. I haven't really been able to find any similar posts or pictures to compare to, and at times my dandruff has made it hard to pick out what is what.
I've definitely seen redness in hairline pics even at 1 year or more, however those patients aren't usually interested in reversals and are happy to have their new hair covering the scalp.

If the redness and scarring would subside I would probably feel pretty comfortable at a #0 or #1 buzzcut until it was time to break out the razor.
I'm really curious if anyone has pics of a razor shave in donor/recipient areas after a HT.

[dfoz]

chb88, hey buddy, i dont know much about surgery but i do know a bit about possibly keeping the hair you have. its my own success story. i wrote about it in these posts:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?p=18668#post18668

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=3923

i hope i can provide some help for you, my friend!!

[CHB88]

Sorry its not that I don't believe you but I'm much more inclined to think that you may have had some sort of nutritional deficiency to begin with, but maybe a real doctor can chime in on this. If it was that easy then everyone would be doing it with great success. It is interesting that I tend to have the same eating problems. Too much meat, refined sugars, not enough raw fruits and veggies.

Even when I was eating much more balanced meals I was shedding a lot, although not nearly as bad. I always figured I would thin out eventually since I shed a lot even as a teenager. My sister does too but she has the luxury of being female in this regard. I'll certainly try eating better as I've been meaning to for a while now. I'm not expecting it to have any effect though.

[CHB88]

Sorry its not that I don't believe you but I'm much more inclined to think that you may have had some sort of nutritional deficiency to begin with, but maybe a real doctor can chime in on this. If it was that easy then everyone would be doing it with great success. It is interesting that I tend to have the same eating problems. Too much meat, refined sugars, not enough raw fruits and veggies.

Even when I was eating much more balanced meals I was shedding a lot, although not nearly as bad. I always figured I would thin out eventually since I shed a lot even as a teenager. My sister does too but she has the luxury of being female in this regard. I'll certainly try eating better as I've been meaning to for a while now. I'm not expecting it to have any effect though.

[dfoz]

Sorry its not that I don't believe you but I'm much more inclined to think that you may have had some sort of nutritional deficiency to begin with, but maybe a real doctor can chime in on this. If it was that easy then everyone would be doing it with great success. It is interesting that I tend to have the same eating problems. Too much meat, refined sugars, not enough raw fruits and veggies.

Even when I was eating much more balanced meals I was shedding a lot, although not nearly as bad. I always figured I would thin out eventually since I shed a lot even as a teenager. My sister does too but she has the luxury of being female in this regard. I'll certainly try eating better as I've been meaning to for a while now. I'm not expecting it to have any effect though.

Hey no problem at all buddy. You know your body better than I do. You're right, im talking from personal experience, I might not have the answer for you, unfortunately. However, even if it doesnt help 100% it may help in some way. I definitely know that mercury, too much protein, high blood pressure and high glycemic foods stress the body. For some people, when on a bad diet, the first thing to go is their immune system and they develop cancer. For others, the first thing to go is their insulin and they develop diabetes. For others hair is the first thing to go.

You are right that I did have some deficiences. But most people do. Not only that but everyone in my family is bald. As far as i'm aware there arent many people on my diet who are bald, but i certainly want you to listen to your body. i dont want to make things worse.

the reason why everyone else isnt finding success with nutrition is gernerally 2 reasons. 1. People are rarely encouraged to get good nutrition from good foods. people are usually encouraged to get suppliments. 2. Most people arent 100% sure how to be healthy even if they tried. I can tell you if you're not eating raw or steamed broccoli and kale everyday, then you are missing out. No suppliment can help you the way whole foods do.

If at all, you want ANY information on health and nutrition let me know. If i dont know the answer I'll try and research it for you. If you are interested but still want to eat meat, I can tell you the best ways to eat meat and veges, and thats very good. Fruits and vegies are even better, but the right meats and veges may also help. apologies for the ramble, i just want to help. I fixed myself doing this and would love to share this info if it help others.

all the best buddy!!

dfoz

[Carzar555]

At a year post HT I had a lot of redness. i too was really worried about bumpiness and redness in the recipient area. If you're like me, it will fade over the next year. I am 18 months post op and the redness has improved dramatically since 12 months. Hang in there, we heal at different rates and you are just hyper sensitive. It will get better. Doing a repair now is premature IMO.

[CHB88]

So I think this topic got a little off track, but I'm still looking for other suggestions to treat the scalp.

My problems are itching, dandruff, redness and (lack of) smoothness.

I'm not as worried about the donor area but I if anything can be done to smooth out the FUE scars it would probably help too.

Are there any pics out there at all? even returning patient shaven down pics?

[CHB88]

Sorry, I didn't see some of the later posts and can't edit my old post anymore.

Carzar, the problem is that my results are severely lacking and I'm starting to fade away even more.
I originally only wanted to fill in one spot but now everything is pretty much going, I wouldn't have ever done it if I had known how far along I was already.

I think this topic got a little off track, but ultimately I'm looking for two things:

- Pics of shaven down recipient areas to see how it might look
- Suggestions to treat the scalp and how to proceed with my situation

I'm unsure if I need a repair at this point... I still have barely acceptable density all over but the hairline is really exposing itself since I wear my hair up.
I would prefer not to have any more surgeries at this point. The experience was really trying on my self-image and emotions.

I don't know if shaving down then later razoring down would be a better option. I'm apprehensive of how it would eventually look with a few FUE in the hairline and nothing behind it.
I can definitely pick out some FUE grafts from the native hairs based on the root.

My skin problems are itching, dandruff, redness and (lack of) smoothness. It has gotten better for sure, but it definitely gets red from time to time.
Obviously that makes me worried if I'll have a neon sign on the front of my face. Even if it isn't red, I'm quite sure the skin texture won't match up properly.

I'm not as worried about the donor area but I if anything can be done to smooth out the FUE scars it would probably help too.
Are there any pics out there at all? even returning patient shaven down pics?

I thought I was willing to take this all the way with strip and multiple surgeries but unfortunately I think I've given up on it all.
I just want to feel normal again.