How many hairs to return a NW7 to NW1?

[richunter]

Hi,

I posted this on another thread but didn't get any responses so was hoping someone out there might give me their thoughts.

It looks like I'm headed for NW7 (probably at NW4/5 now) and was wondering how many hairs would have to be transplanted in the balding area to return NW7 to NW1 or close to it?

I've heard conflicting information, so am hoping some experienced people out there could comment.

For starters, I have heard a rough average of hairs on the head is 100,000. So if you start with that figure and halve it (to give the minimum number needed for the illusion of density) that gets you down to 50,000 for the whole head. Now if you assume half of that area is the permanent hairs and half the bald area, that means to fill the bald area at that density you need 25,000 hairs.

I say "at least" because I would assume the bald area on an NW7 is more than half the original area.

Doing it another way I very roughly estimate the bald area could be about 20cm x 25cm = 500cm2 for my head. Times that by the 100 hairs per cm2 and you get a whopping 50,000 hairs.

However, I have read also that transplanting about 1500 hairs will bring you down 1 NW level. So in total this is 9000 hairs from NW7 to NW1.

I realise all these are rough and averages, but I am hoping to get closer to a range that the big one I have now.

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to answer.

[35YrsAfter]

Hi,

I posted this on another thread but didn't get any responses so was hoping someone out there might give me their thoughts.

It looks like I'm headed for NW7 (probably at NW4/5 now) and was wondering how many hairs would have to be transplanted in the balding area to return NW7 to NW1 or close to it?

I've heard conflicting information, so am hoping some experienced people out there could comment.

For starters, I have heard a rough average of hairs on the head is 100,000. So if you start with that figure and halve it (to give the minimum number needed for the illusion of density) that gets you down to 50,000 for the whole head. Now if you assume half of that area is the permanent hairs and half the bald area, that means to fill the bald area at that density you need 25,000 hairs.

I say "at least" because I would assume the bald area on an NW7 is more than half the original area.

Doing it another way I very roughly estimate the bald area could be about 20cm x 25cm = 500cm2 for my head. Times that by the 100 hairs per cm2 and you get a whopping 50,000 hairs.

However, I have read also that transplanting about 1500 hairs will bring you down 1 NW level. So in total this is 9000 hairs from NW7 to NW1.

I realise all these are rough and averages, but I am hoping to get closer to a range that the big one I have now.

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to answer.

Working at Dr. Cole's office, I have seen men with considerable hair loss achieve some decent improvement, particularly from a frontal perspective. Some men headed for, or already in Norwood 7 territory have a huge balding/bald area. A guy I used to work with seemed beyond a Norwood 7. In his late 30's he only had approximately 1 inch wide of fringe hair left on the sides and back of his head. He was short and overweight. He was married and always had women in his life!

If I were headed for a Norwood 7, I would consider a "shadow" of hair in the front to frame my face using beard hair. I would cut my hair very short and work out. You would be very surprised how many women find that look sexy.

-35YrsAfter works at Dr. Cole's office

[gillenator]

Unless you are willing to compromise your goals and I do mean compromise, I would not recommend that you even start surgical hair restoration.

As was mentioned, possibly a very small and highly situated frame may be possible but once the entire top of your scalp is gone, you may change your mind yet the island of hair that is remaining will stay. This can cause much eye drift. If you try for the upper end of coverage, your donor rim would be soooo depleted that chances are, you would not like the trade-off.

Have you given thought to a high end hair system? Hair systems work for some, for others no way. Yet I can tell you that over the past 34 years of conversing with many many patients, those who started surgery and eventually end up a class 7 have regretted ever starting. Most of them who post wish they never started.

The other option is just buzzing your scalp.

I remember one retired widower who was in his 70s and a class 7 who was trying to get back into dating, was very lonely, and just wanted a little bit of a hairline frame. He later changed his mind once he met someone that he could spend time with. He said, "I'm glad that I did not allow my feelings to get the best of me". All along I had told him to keep thinking it over. I told him in the end that he also saved alot of money!

[richunter]

Thanks both for your advice, it is very much appreciated. I certainly think it is helpful to know this before making any serious choices, and it is funny that I haven't really read many (any) other posts that point this out in such clear language.

However, I am still at the early stage of fact finding and specifically am really interested in figuring out how far away transplants are from obtaining the results.

I assume for example transplants from a "safe zone" might get 3000 hairs to implant. Now if someone is an NW7, how far will this take them?

Another way to look at it could be, let's say, if hair multiplication becomes a possibility in the future and I would have to option of getting the number of hairs I needed... could you estimate how many hairs an NW7 would need to get back to NW1?

[35YrsAfter]

Thanks both for your advice, it is very much appreciated. I certainly think it is helpful to know this before making any serious choices, and it is funny that I haven't really read many (any) other posts that point this out in such clear language.

However, I am still at the early stage of fact finding and specifically am really interested in figuring out how far away transplants are from obtaining the results.

I assume for example transplants from a "safe zone" might get 3000 hairs to implant. Now if someone is an NW7, how far will this take them?

Another way to look at it could be, let's say, if hair multiplication becomes a possibility in the future and I would have to option of getting the number of hairs I needed... could you estimate how many hairs an NW7 would need to get back to NW1?

There are huge differences in the size of Norwood 7 bald areas between men. Here at Dr. Cole's office, I work with a man in his 40's who is a Norwood 7. He told me the other day that in social situations, people seem amused that he is bald and works for a hair restoration physician! He has a huge area of hair loss. He also has a large beard area. The other day I spoke with this gentleman just after Dr. Cole removed and transplanted 500+ beard hairs to some thin spots on the top of my head. When I mentioned that he has enough beard donor to make a sizable dent in his hair loss, he said no way! He simply does not care at all about his hair loss.

When I was in my late 20's I had a scalp reduction and a good amount of grafts placed. Dr. Cole has been fixing the unnatural appearance of this previous surgery over the years. My brother who is two years younger lost his hair about ten years later than I did. I haven't seen him in years, but a photo reveals he is a Norwood 7. He shaves his head. I think that without hair restoration surgery, I would be somewhere between a Norwood 6 and a 7. It takes determination and repeated surgeries to make a dent into the higher Norwood classifications. I have met patients who have done it with varying degrees of success. In my opinion framing the face should be the first priority. Not everyone agrees with that though. I recently spoke with a man in his 50's who told me that his frontal hair loss doesn't bother him as much as hair loss in the rear.

What I'm about to say is considered controversial, but if I were to do it over, I would use only stomach and beard hair. I would create a shadow of hair in the front and keep my hair cut very short. Dr. Cole is not a fan of body hair at all. My stomach hair grew pretty well. People tell me I don't appear bald although my hair is thin on top. With the exception of the newly placed beard hair, all of the hair with the exception of around 250 scalp hairs is body hair. It really didn't grow nearly as well as scalp hair, but Rogaine seems to stimulate body hair growth. I think I look better than if I remained bald, but it took a LOT of surgeries to get where I currently am. I still have a long way to go.

-35YrsAfter works at Dr. Cole's office

[baldozer]

There are huge differences in the size of Norwood 7 bald areas between men. Here at Dr. Cole's office, I work with a man in his 40's who is a Norwood 7. He told me the other day that in social situations, people seem amused that he is bald and works for a hair restoration physician! He has a huge area of hair loss. He also has a large beard area. The other day I spoke with this gentleman just after Dr. Cole removed and transplanted 500+ beard hairs to some thin spots on the top of my head. When I mentioned that he has enough beard donor to make a sizable dent in his hair loss, he said no way! He simply does not care at all about his hair loss.

When I was in my late 20's I had a scalp reduction and a good amount of grafts placed. Dr. Cole has been fixing the unnatural appearance of this previous surgery over the years. My brother who is two years younger lost his hair about ten years later than I did. I haven't seen him in years, but a photo reveals he is a Norwood 7. He shaves his head. I think that without hair restoration surgery, I would be somewhere between a Norwood 6 and a 7. It takes determination and repeated surgeries to make a dent into the higher Norwood classifications. I have met patients who have done it with varying degrees of success. In my opinion framing the face should be the first priority. Not everyone agrees with that though. I recently spoke with a man in his 50's who told me that his frontal hair loss doesn't bother him as much as hair loss in the rear.

What I'm about to say is considered controversial, but if I were to do it over, I would use only stomach and beard hair. I would create a shadow of hair in the front and keep my hair cut very short. Dr. Cole is not a fan of body hair at all. My stomach hair grew pretty well. People tell me I don't appear bald although my hair is thin on top. With the exception of the newly placed beard hair, all of the hair with the exception of around 250 scalp hairs is body hair. It really didn't grow nearly as well as scalp hair, but Rogaine seems to stimulate body hair growth. I think I look better than if I remained bald, but it took a LOT of surgeries to get where I currently am. I still have a long way to go.

-35YrsAfter works at Dr. Cole's office

That was some very interesting info. Thanks for sharing. I think I have a thick beard and can easily get 5000 hair from it, without significantly thinning it. And even a NW7 has at least 10,000 hair grafts on his scalp, so I think there should be no problem in getting 4000 hair grafts from there as well.

[richunter]

That was some very interesting info. Thanks for sharing. I think I have a thick beard and can easily get 5000 hair from it, without significantly thinning it. And even a NW7 has at least 10,000 hair grafts on his scalp, so I think there should be no problem in getting 4000 hair grafts from there as well.

So are you saying you think an guide could be 10,000 or 14,000 hair grafts to get an NW7 back to NW1?

[drybone]

I dont know. There are several people on here who have extensive knowledge like Gillian, Spex and Dex and Tracy.

There are the actual doctors but they might not reply as promptly as they are very busy. There are also consultants for the doctors who may be able to help.

I can tell you what i read.

We have 100,000 hairs on our head before we start MPB. I believe we have 50,000 on the top of our head. In order for us to even notice any hair loss we
must lose at least 25000 or 50% .

So by time we are balding, we have lost a good 80% of our hair on the top and getting it all back would require some 45,000 hairs. To get to the 1/2 density where it appears to be full, would require 25000 hairs.

I have read that most of us can afford 7000 donor grafts but I have always figured we could take it all if we really wanted.

[baldozer]

So are you saying you think an guide could be 10,000 or 14,000 hair grafts to get an NW7 back to NW1?

I think that a NW7 can get at least 4000 grafts from the donor area and further 2000 or so beard hair to get total of around 6000 grafts. That would cover quite a bit of an area if you don't care about the crown.

[baldozer]

I dont know. There are several people on here who have extensive knowledge like Gillian, Spex and Dex and Tracy.

There are the actual doctors but they might not reply as promptly as they are very busy. There are also consultants for the doctors who may be able to help.

I can tell you what i read.

We have 100,000 hairs on our head before we start MPB. I believe we have 50,000 on the top of our head. In order for us to even notice any hair loss we
must lose at least 25000 or 50% .

So by time we are balding, we have lost a good 80% of our hair on the top and getting it all back would require some 45,000 hairs. To get to the 1/2 density where it appears to be full, would require 25000 hairs.

I have read that most of us can afford 7000 donor grafts but I have always figured we could take it all if we really wanted.

And 25000 hair is around 12500 grafts right? So if you leave out the crown, I guess 8 or 9 thousand grafts would be enough. We can get 5000 from scalp and 3000 from beard. My beard is quite thick, so I think I can easily get 3000 from there. But the question is, will it leave scars on the face.

[PatientlyWaiting]

You can always prioritize the frontal part of your head, focus on getting as much grafts as possible there, and just pt on Toppik on the back for as long as possible. Can't this be done? I use Toppik every day, if you have at least some hair back there, you'll be okay with Toppik for some years. If I get an HT, which could be a couple of years from now, or never, I would want to fill in the front as much as possible and since I have a good amount of hair in the back I can just use a concealer for it.

I don't know much about HT's mixed with Toppik, i'm just saying an idea.

[PatientlyWaiting]

And if you don't have any hair back there, just get small 800-1200 graft HT in the vertex and you'll be good with Toppik I think.