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Old 05-10-2012, 10:28 AM   #1581
jpm
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Originally Posted by LarryDavid View Post
Why is the haircount increasing in the placebo group?
Even when you look at the average of all subjects it is increasing after one year.
I'm curious about this too!
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:36 AM   #1582
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maybe there were many hair follicles which went from resting to growing phase (sorry i dont know the scientific terms)

I read a study once (i think it was a Fin Study) where i saw the same thing
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Old 05-10-2012, 11:29 AM   #1583
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Originally Posted by LarryDavid View Post
Why is the haircount increasing in the placebo group?
Even when you look at the average of all subjects it is increasing after one year.
It almost shows that there is a tendency to be over generous. Human error still occurs I'd imagine when counting hairs and when your conducting a study into a treatment for hairloss, you'll always want to see more hairs. But the people conducting the study do not know who had the real injection or placebo.
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Old 05-10-2012, 01:07 PM   #1584
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The hair count increasing in the placebo group is probably a mixture of margin of error and the nature of the hair cycle
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Old 05-10-2012, 01:27 PM   #1585
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Originally Posted by gmonasco View Post
But if you look at the figure referenced in that note, it shows photos displaying a hair count going from a baseline of 214.5 hairs to 324.5 hairs after one year, which is only a 51.2% increase.
Why do all your comments seem like you are rooting for this to fail. Which side are you on here?
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Old 05-10-2012, 02:03 PM   #1586
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Originally Posted by john2399 View Post
Why do all your comments seem like you are rooting for this to fail. Which side are you on here?
He is probably not bald or balding, that's why.

Rather, he gets a kick out of tormenting bald guys.
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Old 05-10-2012, 02:34 PM   #1587
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Originally Posted by bigentries View Post
The hair count increasing in the placebo group is probably a mixture of margin of error and the nature of the hair cycle
Sounds logical and in fairness all results come with a margin of error +/- a certain %.

so an increase of 5% (+/-6%) which means it could and increase of 11% or even a decrease of 1%.
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Old 05-10-2012, 05:14 PM   #1588
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Originally Posted by Pate View Post
Okay, so. In order to stop these figures flying back and forth all over BTT and the other forums... I have bought the Histogen paper published in the JDD and linked to on their website. Cost 15 USD for a one-time purchase. Unfortunately I am not a student any more I would have free access to journals like these through my university but oh well, 15 USD is a small price to pay.

So here are the official figures from Histogen, published in the peer-reviewed journal.

At 3 months:

Shaft thickness +6%
Thickness density +13%
Terminal hair count +21%
No mention of total hair count, presumably it was not statistically significant

At 5 months:

No statistically significant increase over 3 months (obviously some individuals had better results at 5 months but the overall change was not statistically significant).

At 12 months:
Total hair count +16%
Thickness density +18%
Terminal hair count +30%

So there you have it, straight from the source. A single injection of HSC resulted in an average 30% increase in terminal hair count at 12 months. There is some other interesting stuff in the paper too but I haven't read it all yet.
If TOTAL hair count increased, that means that the treatment must have induced a few entirely new follicles to form as well. That's the understanding I always had - I believe what I read in one of their articles or press releases that HSC was effective in transforming vellus hairs back to terminal hairs, and it also appeared to create brand new terminal follicles as well.

Histogen has absolutely blown everyone else out of the water so far. I see this as being the possible cure, especially if they really are creating new follicles in addition to reversing miniaturization. I am cautiously optimistic about this being the cure for people with bald scalps and very optimistic about this being the solution with people who just have thinning. Go Histogen!
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:40 PM   #1589
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Originally Posted by john2399 View Post
Why do all your comments seem like you are rooting for this to fail. Which side are you on here?
I'm on the side of promoting accurate information and realistic expectations. Which side are you on?
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:51 PM   #1590
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Originally Posted by jpm View Post
Just reading through the Histogen article and it states, 'HSC's effect on hair growth was concentrated within 1-2mm of the site of injection'.

I read somewhere that it spread out
once injected...otherwise you would need hundreds of injections. ouch!
It can't be any worse then getting micro scalp pigmentation. So for the real deal, sign me up.
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