Aderans

[534623]

Don't forget that histogen is also on the horizon and will boost the regrowth numbers even further!

I have no doubts ...

[534623]

If the leakage thing is true we probably wouldn't be getting results close to Propecia (15-20% regrowth + maintenance).

P.S. That study is in 2003 way before Aderans got to tweak their formula!

Even so ...
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http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=99898

"....ideas are summarized in Figure 1. This is a highly simplified model diagram because the exchange of cells between the papilla and sheath occurs at specific and different times of the hair cycle, as may the loss of cells from the follicle dermal sheath into the dermis. However, what it attempts to illustrate is the idea that movement of dermal cells may occur not only within the follicle but to the skin dermis as well, and that this may occur both in trauma situations and during the dynamic migratory phases of the hair cycle."
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What does it mean?
First of all, this is still a scientific fact; namely, that hair follicles per se are NOT prone to "soak-up" any additional or injected cells in every hair cycle stage/phase (anagen-catagen-telogen-anagen again etc etc).
Second, each and every HUMAN hair follicle on your head cycles independent from other hair follicles - even within a so-called follicular unit (FU). In simple words, they do not cycle synchronously (as in rabbits or mice etc), especially in skin undergoing AGA.

So, what does it mean?
If you inject additional cells (even with a "tweaked formula"), not all hair follicles in the skin will "soak them up", simply because not every hair follicle is prone to soak them up. So this will cause "patchy hair growth" within your balding areas. You simply do not know when it's the proper moment for a distinct (already somewhat miniaturized) hair follicle in the skin. So this would, in fact, require multiple procedure during an unkown timeframe (for 2-3 years or more or so, until every follicle has finally been "caught" in its proper moment).

Actually, Dr. Washenik himself addressed exactly this problem in his presentation recently ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_JHbtXJ0a8

So WHAT EXACTLY is he saying concerning this issue?
Tell me ...

[sausage]

Does this only potentially stop hairloss.......not regrow it?

[BoSox]

Does this only potentially stop hairloss.......not regrow it?

Their goal is to produce unlimited amount of donor hair.. Stopping hair loss is not enough.

[534623]

Their goal is to produce unlimited amount of donor hair..
Stopping hair loss is not enough.

That's the point and question where my previous post ended up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_JHbtXJ0a8

Is Dr. Washink saying in the video what you say?
So what exactly is he saying concerning "producing unlimited amount of donor hair"?
Is this still their goal?

[Desmond84]

Hey guys,

Here's a recent news regarding "Stem cell transplantation" that could be very relevant to hair loss sufferers awaiting treatments such as Aderans / Stem cell studies:

"The report in the December 2012 edition of Scientific American illustrates clearly that just because a stem cell therapy utilizes a patient's own cells, it does NOT mean the treatment is without serious risk.

Most stem cell treatments are experimental, and they should be fully evaluated for safety and efficacy before human use.

In this case, the patient's transplanted cells turned into bone in the tissue surrounding the eye, causing pain and loss of mobility, and necessitating surgery to remove the graft."

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=stem-cell-cosmetics

Just a thought but let's say if Aderans was proven safe, would injecting Histogen into these treated areas after an Aderans session have an unknown effect on newly injected DP cells!

It seems there's a lot we still don't know!

[hellouser]

How do you guys feel about Aderans affecting diffuse thinners?

I'm hoping it will do wonders and have a feeling it will work best for guys like me with diffuse thinning. I've thinned out about 4+ years ago but have basically stayed the same thickness since (possibly thinned out a little more but not much, not noticeably anyway). I'm currently on Minox and RU and hoping it will regrow some until Aderans is out... shouldnt be too long but the wait is killing me. I have a feeling I should be ok until Aderans is available considering I've had more or less the same hairline for the past 7+ years and more or less the same thickness for 4+ years. Aderans made claims they'd be available by 2014 Q1... I think with RU I should maintain what I got until then or even longer should Aderans take an extra year for an actual product.

*fingers crossed*

[Desmond84]

"The cells of the DP are not only essential for hair follicle development and function, but are also a reservoir of cells with the potential to differentiate into a range of cell types that are of potential therapeutic importance"

http://jcs.biologists.org/content/124/8/1179.full

Maybe those cells unused by the follicles are destroyed by the immune system, but I guess theres a chance that they become different cell types.

Neversaynever that's a great point and made me look into so much information to find an answer! LOL

What I found is intriguing but NOT so bad! You are right about unused DP cells! What happens to them is anyone's guess and most probably will be dependent on the medium they end up in!

That study I posted in the previous post clearly highlights that the stem cells transformed into bones because of co-administeration of Calcium Hydroxyapatite!

But then again, any major problems with Ji Gami should get picked up in Phase 3 trials or a few years after its completion!

One thing is for sure though! Aderans is a permanent therapy, once they inject you with it, there's no way to undo it. So, it is more than likely that after using Aderans, you will have to be very careful with future therapies you decide to undergo. FOr example. Histogen may have an unpredictable effect on these transplanted DP cells and might turn them into something else!

Again guys, we are NOT trying to make anyone lose hope or put down upcoming therapies! We're simply discussing the potential risks of these therapies. This way we can demand more information from these companies to ensure their products are truly safe!


Cheers...

[Jairus]

Neversaynever that's a great point and made me look into so much information to find an answer! LOL

What I found is intriguing but NOT so bad! You are right about unused DP cells! What happens to them is anyone's guess and most probably will be dependent on the medium they end up in!

That study I posted in the previous post clearly highlights that the stem cells transformed into bones because of co-administeration of Calcium Hydroxyapatite!

But then again, any major problems with Ji Gami should get picked up in Phase 3 trials or a few years after its completion!

One thing is for sure though! Aderans is a permanent therapy, once they inject you with it, there's no way to undo it. So, it is more than likely that after using Aderans, you will have to be very careful with future therapies you decide to undergo. FOr example. Histogen may have an unpredictable effect on these transplanted DP cells and might turn them into something else!

Again guys, we are NOT trying to make anyone lose hope or put down upcoming therapies! We're simply discussing the potential risks of these therapies. This way we can demand more information from these companies to ensure their products are truly safe!


Cheers...

Des

When you say Aderans is permanent do u mean a one time injection or will we need to get it topped up every few years?

Thanks

[Desmond84]

Des

When you say Aderans is permanent do u mean a one time injection or will we need to get it topped up every few years?

Thanks

Their trials are a ONCE-OFF treatment, there are no follow up injections!

From what I understand, DP cells remain the same throughout your whole life, so in theory there will not be any need for a top up! Then again we may be proven wrong once ppl start using it on a mass scale and we realise that we do need a top up every 10-15 years!

More importantly, my main point was that if there are adverse events associated with it, these may persist for a long time as we don't have a way to remove these cells once they are transplanted!

[Vox]

More importantly, my main point was that if there are adverse events associated with it, these may persist for a long time as we don't have a way to remove these cells once they are transplanted!

This is my main preoccupation with this kind of treatment. I am afraid it will take decades in order to have life-long lasting and risk-free hair regeneration/multiplication inside the human body.

I have more faith in in-vitro hair multiplication and then transplantation.

[Kiwi]

Their trials are a ONCE-OFF treatment, there are no follow up injections!

From what I understand, DP cells remain the same throughout your whole life, so in theory there will not be any need for a top up! Then again we may be proven wrong once ppl start using it on a mass scale and we realise that we do need a top up every 10-15 years!

More importantly, my main point was that if there are adverse events associated with it, these may persist for a long time as we don't have a way to remove these cells once they are transplanted!

Now you're freaking me out - somebody with BAD Fin sides needs to guiney pig this one!!

[534623]

That's the point and question where my previous post ended up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_JHbtXJ0a8

Is Dr. Washink saying in the video what you say?
So what exactly is he saying concerning "producing unlimited amount of donor hair"?
Is this still their goal?

Okay - this is the third time I'm asking the same question ...

(04:30>>>) "The problem with that assay was …"

So what exactly is he saying concerning this problem, or in other words:
why did they cast away their initial idea of creating thousands of brand new follicles from scratch?

[Boldy]

Not easy to roll out into the clinics (money) it does not fit in their profit plan.

For example it costs them 4 K to culture the DP cells. that would mean they have to sell the procedure for 6-8 K. end result less people interested(less end profit).


their second not so promising method is probably easier, does not require special trained professionals and is easily done for 500 usd (just an example). this way they can sell the procedure for 2-4 K per person. end result much interested people that can afford it. more profit, and repeated procedure per person until the head gets full of hair....


Conclusion: its all about the money they don't give a **** about our hairs..



what can we do about it?
1. Accept the fact that DP culture could take yet again another 5-10 before it hits the market.
2. Find our own solution that consists of DP culture and do it somewhere probably in Asia.

[Boldy]

another thing also these dp cells should be cultured under 5% co2, 37C, super controlled environment. the process itself is pretty labor intensive. Costs to much + the profit they want of it.

it would be a rich peoples cure only..

Knowing this, disappoints me, and have to make my own plan.

Not easy to roll out into the clinics (money) it does not fit in their profit plan.

For example it costs them 4 K to culture the DP cells. that would mean they have to sell the procedure for 6-8 K. end result less people interested(less end profit).


their second not so promising method is probably easier, does not require special trained professionals and is easily done for 500 usd (just an example). this way they can sell the procedure for 2-4 K per person. end result much interested people that can afford it. more profit, and repeated procedure per person until the head gets full of hair....


Conclusion: its all about the money they don't give a **** about our hairs..



what can we do about it?
1. Accept the fact that DP culture could take yet again another 5-10 before it hits the market.
2. Find our own solution that consists of DP culture and do it somewhere probably in Asia.