My propecia advice

[GuyFromUK]

Hi

This is my 1st thread on the forum. I have been reading these forums fairly fanatically for the last 2.5 years and I just wanted to share my story as I think it could be of interest to a lot of people here. I imagine a lot of people like me just read these forums without ever posting any advice and so I feel like I want to give something back to the forum community.

I first took propecia in December 2010, I started taking the standard 1mg a day dosage and within 1 week of taking it the side effects kicked in massively. These side effects definitely weren't psychological, my penis and testicles physically shrank and it was like the nerve connections between my brain and my penis had been severed and my penis felt like a foreign object with no sensation. I naturally went into a massive panic and thought I was never going to recover. I went to the doctor who presecribed me viagra so I could still get erections whilst my body hopefully recovered. After about 3 weeks things started getting better and after about 6 weeks I could get erections again. I think the main thing which helped me recover was the viagra disguising the side effects and allowing me to not panic - the doctor said if you panic too much about it you womight risk your recovery as impotence can be made worse psychologically.

I came off propecia and I vowed never to take it again. As far as I was concerned it was poison. However, my hair continued to quickly deteriorate and I could see that I was going bald fast! I kept reading stories on the forums about people taking very low dosages, and after 9 months of losing hair I decided to give propecia another shot in September of last year with a lower dose.

When I went back on propecia I decided to take the smallest dosage that could be seen to the human eye and then not take it again for another week. I literally bit off a few small crumbs with my tooth and took this tiny amount. Surprisingly even though the amount of propecia I took was tiny (and I mean TINY) I still got a few minor side effects, but not anything so bad that I couldnt put up with it, this just goes to show the strength of this medication! A week later I took another tiny amount and then 5 days later I did the same. After a few weeks I raised it so I was taking about one sixth of a tablet (biting bits off a corner of the pill) and I took this amount every 4 days for a few weeks. For the next 4 or 5 months I then started taking I imagine one quarter of a pill between every 2 to 5 days. At the moment I am currently taking about half a pill every 2 to 4 days and this is the level I plan to stick out indefinitely.

In terms of my hair I have seen a huge improvement. My hair has massively thickened up, really decent regrowth. I still have receded temples (which i dont ever expect to regrow) and I still have a small bald spot on my crown (which i think and hope is gradually dissappearing) but apart from that I have had almost complete regrowth to my teenage years.

In terms of side effects they are really minimal. When I started on the lower dose I was getting a few minor sexual side effects but these seem to be getting better with time.

Now, the reason I wanted to post this message is I genuinely believe that propecia isn't a one size fits all medication. For me I think taking 1mg of propecia was far too much for my body. I think all I need is a tiny dosage. I guess it is the same as some men get drunk off 3 beers but some men dont get drunk off 12 beers.

I also believe that by not taking propecia every day you perhaps lower the chances of side effects. I think that by taking it every 3 or 4 days your body creates a bit more DHT in the meantime and so you are preventing yourself from keeping your DHT too low and your body crashing.

I don't know if this advice helps anyone and I don't want to be seen to be encouraging anyone to take propecia. However, if like me you were scared of propecia and scared of losing your hair, then I really reccomend taking a very small dose every few days, rather than a full dose every day.

If you go to any of the Propecia Help forums you can see that most people who got side effects were taking the full 1mg dosage and they were taking it daily. I havent come across anyone who got the persistent side effects who was taking propecia intermittently and on a low dosage (I hope I don't become the first!)

From my experience even if a man takes a tiny amount of propecia once a week it will benefit his hair more than if he takes none at all.

Anyway thank you for reading my story and I look forward to any comments.

[Dan26]

Hey bro, I'm glad you posted this. I'm almost 20 and have been losing my hair rather quickly for the past year or so. I knew my best chance to slow down or stop it was propecia, so I wanted to do some serious research before I considered taking it. At this point I am not on it, but I do plan to start in a similar fashion you did sometime soon. It's really funny, because out of all the research and all the forums I visited, the place I found the most pertinent yet surprising information was on propeciahelp.com, and if it weren't for that, I probably wouldn't even be considering taking it!

I posted on propeciahelp saying I was considering using the drug and was hoping someone could just direct me to good sources to learn the truth about Fin. One of the moderators there (shout out to Mew lol) did so and after what I read, I made a post on this site, along with throwing a few comments about what I found hear and there in other threads, but I never really got much response to what I was saying.

This is a copy of the thread I posted

-----
Hey guys, after reading this article, I was left with some questions/concerns regarding Propecia dosages. Some of you probably know the info contained in it already, but I'll sum up the important parts.

"the percent change of DHT for placebo and .01 mg finasteride were identical and essentially zero within a reasonable statistical estimate. The change dropped by 60 % for a .05 mg dose and stayed that way for all dosages up to 5 mg. Thus a 20 times smaller dose than PROPECIA had the same effect on the DHT."

"Thus the fact that the dosage has been set by the manufacturer at a level far larger than the level measured as necessary for the main function, has not been reported publicly. Yet, the vastly lower dosages, reported in the data submitted to the FDA, would be expected to reduce the chance of side effects."

So, if such a small dosage of Fin has the same inhibiting effects on DHT, why would Merck recommend such a higher dosage??? Especially on a person who is just starting out on it. It makes no sense to me, seems like they are not only condoning, but recommending their consumers to take a USELESS risk.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated!

Article: http://www.physics.upenn.edu/faculty.../propeciafda2/
http://www.physics.upenn.edu/faculty...pcrapmerck.htm
http://www.physics.upenn.edu/faculty.../propeciafda2/
------

Now, there were no efficacy tests done for dosages of 0.02mg-0.2mg (not sure why), but there were for 1mg and 0.2mg. However, the sample of participants (100) was small and the differences between the .2 and 1.0 dosages in the first two cases were not apparent and, in the photographic assessment, which showed a larger mean improvement for 1 mg, the values overlapped statistically at the 95% confidence level. ---> 68.7
+/- 17.3 and 54.9 +/- 17.

From the looks of it, Merck/FDA did not care to thoroughly look into the effectiveness of a lower dose. Why? Beats me.

Another excerpt from one of the articles which basically sums up the whole situation nicely.

"I cannot understand why saving money ``cannot be condoned'' when the cost is approximately $1000 per year, not covered by insurance, and the drug must be taken forever in order to preserve any hair growth.
There are no data proving that the lower dosages are ineffective while the physical T to DHT conversion measurements are flat from .05 to 5 mg. Considering the cost to take the drug for the rest of one's life and
that the drug is too expensive for most young men, an intelligent user might want to do a few month trial at lower dosage. Nothing to lose but some fuzz."

I've been reading about hair loss for about a month, I'm no expert, but so far this is what stuck out to me the most. I know for sure if I go on propecia, I'm starting at 0.25mg and taking it days apart to start.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but I feel like this is very important information and I haven't seen many people talk about it on here. You have an almost identical story to a guy that called in The Bald Truth radio show the other week. Had bad side effects at 1mg, went off, went back on at 0.25mg and had minor side effects at first but stuck it out and is good now. Only thing is that guy started to slowly up his dose, not sure why, even Spencer asked why he didn't just remain at the low dose if it were working.

I can't say it with certainty because I am no expert, but it seems like 0.25 definitely has way less chance for adverse sides, but the fact you and that other guy and probably other people did experience minor sides, tells me that the drug it still working (plus your having good results on it, and if your hair got worse you could always up the dose slightly).

If you read all of this, thanks bro haha. Peace.

(To anyone reading don't take my word for nothing check the links and do your own research)

[ppxrare]

Thanks for the post GuyUK, what you are doing is exactly what I started to do. I just recently bought proscar 5 mg, and I try to cut it up (get some waste through crumbs) to get a small dose anything between ( 0.4-0.8 mg) and I am taking it every 3 days and I feel fine till now.

My only 2 issues is:

1) I have been on it for only 6 days, I'm worried that the dose I'm taking won't be enough and I have no idea if its working or not. But hopefully in a 2 to 3 months I will see improvements

2) Since I cut small parts of the 5mg pill, the rest I keep in an empty watch box (I think its air tight and its dark ) I'm worried that I keep a pill so long that it reduces it effectiveness by a lot. By the rate I'm going which is take a small piece every 3 days, a pill could last me about 15-18 days. Should I be worried about this?

[Dan26]

If you are a good respondant to Propecia, then you should see some positive improvements from a smaller dose. I think what your doing now is great and you should just be patient. If you wait 6 months to a year and you fee like your hair is getting worse, you could either up the dose (I wouldn't recommend this personally) or take a genetic hairloss test which can tell you if you are likely to be a average, poor, or good responder to Propecia (which everyone should do before they go on the drug IMO, but it is a bit expensive (300-400 bucks).

Really not sure about your second question, I don't think it should make a difference though.

[PaulUK]

Take a genetic hairloss test which can tell you if you are likely to be a average, poor, or good responder to Propecia (which everyone should do before they go on the drug IMO, but it is a bit expensive (300-400 bucks).

Hi Dan26, any advice on where to get a hairloss test done?

I recently paid £70 for a consultation with a tricologist which turned out to be a complete waste of money as the scalp analysis consisted of two minutes of looking at my scalp with a magnifying glass of some sort and a recommendation of trying Propecia & Rogaine.

What I really want is a proper scalp analysis done to determine if I have a scalp condition before considering the treatments available

GuyFromUK thanks for creating this thread, I'm 26 and I haven't tried any treatment yet and all of my hair is now very thin. I'm somewhere between a Norwood III & IV hairline atm

I was very reluctant to try Propecia based on the negative side effects I had read about it but your post is very interesting and it'll make me do more research before making a decision so thanks for that1

Have you noticed any regrowth or just thickening of your existing hair?

[Dan26]

Hey Paul I am not sure where you would get it. I have seen it offered at hair restoration clinics though. Here is the site that tells you a little more about it --- > http://www.hairdx.com/en-us/

[PaulUK]

Hey Paul I am not sure where you would get it. I have seen it offered at hair restoration clinics though. Here is the site that tells you a little more about it --- > http://www.hairdx.com/en-us/

Thanks Dan!

I've seen the same offer at a hair restoration clinic, I just can't remember which one.

[Hurts]

Hi

This is my 1st thread on the forum. I have been reading these forums fairly fanatically for the last 2.5 years and I just wanted to share my story as I think it could be of interest to a lot of people here. I imagine a lot of people like me just read these forums without ever posting any advice and so I feel like I want to give something back to the forum community.

I first took propecia in December 2010, I started taking the standard 1mg a day dosage and within 1 week of taking it the side effects kicked in massively. These side effects definitely weren't psychological, my penis and testicles physically shrank and it was like the nerve connections between my brain and my penis had been severed and my penis felt like a foreign object with no sensation. I naturally went into a massive panic and thought I was never going to recover. I went to the doctor who presecribed me viagra so I could still get erections whilst my body hopefully recovered. After about 3 weeks things started getting better and after about 6 weeks I could get erections again. I think the main thing which helped me recover was the viagra disguising the side effects and allowing me to not panic - the doctor said if you panic too much about it you womight risk your recovery as impotence can be made worse psychologically.

I came off propecia and I vowed never to take it again. As far as I was concerned it was poison. However, my hair continued to quickly deteriorate and I could see that I was going bald fast! I kept reading stories on the forums about people taking very low dosages, and after 9 months of losing hair I decided to give propecia another shot in September of last year with a lower dose.

When I went back on propecia I decided to take the smallest dosage that could be seen to the human eye and then not take it again for another week. I literally bit off a few small crumbs with my tooth and took this tiny amount. Surprisingly even though the amount of propecia I took was tiny (and I mean TINY) I still got a few minor side effects, but not anything so bad that I couldnt put up with it, this just goes to show the strength of this medication! A week later I took another tiny amount and then 5 days later I did the same. After a few weeks I raised it so I was taking about one sixth of a tablet (biting bits off a corner of the pill) and I took this amount every 4 days for a few weeks. For the next 4 or 5 months I then started taking I imagine one quarter of a pill between every 2 to 5 days. At the moment I am currently taking about half a pill every 2 to 4 days and this is the level I plan to stick out indefinitely.

In terms of my hair I have seen a huge improvement. My hair has massively thickened up, really decent regrowth. I still have receded temples (which i dont ever expect to regrow) and I still have a small bald spot on my crown (which i think and hope is gradually dissappearing) but apart from that I have had almost complete regrowth to my teenage years.

In terms of side effects they are really minimal. When I started on the lower dose I was getting a few minor sexual side effects but these seem to be getting better with time.

Now, the reason I wanted to post this message is I genuinely believe that propecia isn't a one size fits all medication. For me I think taking 1mg of propecia was far too much for my body. I think all I need is a tiny dosage. I guess it is the same as some men get drunk off 3 beers but some men dont get drunk off 12 beers.

I also believe that by not taking propecia every day you perhaps lower the chances of side effects. I think that by taking it every 3 or 4 days your body creates a bit more DHT in the meantime and so you are preventing yourself from keeping your DHT too low and your body crashing.

I don't know if this advice helps anyone and I don't want to be seen to be encouraging anyone to take propecia. However, if like me you were scared of propecia and scared of losing your hair, then I really reccomend taking a very small dose every few days, rather than a full dose every day.

If you go to any of the Propecia Help forums you can see that most people who got side effects were taking the full 1mg dosage and they were taking it daily. I havent come across anyone who got the persistent side effects who was taking propecia intermittently and on a low dosage (I hope I don't become the first!)

From my experience even if a man takes a tiny amount of propecia once a week it will benefit his hair more than if he takes none at all.

Anyway thank you for reading my story and I look forward to any comments.

Welcome to the forum.

How minor are your side effects?. What I did when I started finasteeide was start on 0.5mg and take it once every 2 days but I still developed side effects after 5 months (the sides started out minor and got unbearably worse by the 5th month). I'm thinking of restarting it again but afraid this time if I get the sides I may not be so lucky to recover like the first time.

[GuyFromUK]

Hey guys,

Thaks for all your responses. It's great to see such an interesting discussion getting going. It seems like so many people out there have the incorrect view that propecia has to be taken at 1mg a day or its not worth taking. I am sure that even if someone only took 0.1mg once a week then they would still get some degree of benefit from it, so rather than not taking it altogether why not take a very low dose intermittently and choose a dose you are comfortable taking.

In answer to all your questions. I would say that I have had regrowth as well as thickening up of the hair. I would also point out that I didn't really notice this until around the 8 month mark. I also had a fairly bad shed from approximately month 3 to 6.

As propecia at any dose has a long time to take effect I can imagine that some people who experiment with lower dosages incorrectly think after a few months that it isn't working for them and then go and raise their dosage when they don't need to. So my advice is if you are going to try taking a lower dose intermittently be patient with it and see it out for at least 9 months. Don't panic when nothing happens in the first few months and then raise your dose, you might go and give yourself side effects when you raise the dose, so just keep the dose low and see what happens. I raised my dosage up to 0.5mg which I now take every 2 to 4 days, but I think that if I kept it at a lower dose I would still have seen the benefits to my hair, so I am considering lowering it back down again.

In answer to the question about the minor side effects I experienced, I would say that for the first couple of months I had ever so slightly weaker erections. But this seems to have gone away now. It was definitely nowhere nearly as bad as when I took 1mg a day! My advice for anyone who does get side effects taking a low dose is to stop taking it for 4 or 5 days and then go back in at an even lower dose. For instance, if you get side effects taking 0.25mg every 3 days then wait 5 days and try taking 0.15mg. Try and get a feel for what dosage you can take and at what duration apart - get a feel for your body. I can't stress enough the need not to take propecia every day. It takes over 2 weeks for DHT levels to return to normal after a single dose, so I really have no idea why anyone takes it daily, you are just taking far more of this drug than you actually need.

Dan26, you mentioned you are going to start taking 0.25mg. I would suggest going in even lower than that at say 0.15mg (just bite a small bit off a proepcia tablet with your tooth) and then if your body can handle it take some more after 4 or 5 days and then after a few weeks/months raise it to 0.25mg taking it every 3 days. Give it 9 months and I am sure your hair will be much better off than if you were ntot aking it at all.

One final thing I would like to say just to help me sleep easier at night, is please if you are not planning on taking propecia don't go and start taking it based solely on my advice. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I knew that someone who wasn't going to ever take propecia starts taking it after reading my posts and then goes and gets permanent side effects. My advice is solely intended for people who have already decided to take propecia and it is to help them experiment with taking the drug at a very low dosage intermittently. If I myself didn't make the choice to go back on propecia at a low dosage intermittently after I got side effects taking it daily, then I would be an unhappy bald man right now, instead luckily I have a full head of hair!

[25 going on 65]

I like the advice in the original post. I think there is strong evidence that a good number of men can take less finasteride, less often, than the typical 1 mg per day and not strongly compromise their results. It does seem the DHT suppression effect lingers for at least 5-7 days after a dose, although DHT levels do seem to gradually increase after day 2. Also the effect of .25 mg of finasteride vs. 1 mg finasteride doesn't seem to be extremely different.
I still take 1.25 mg every day because it has worked well for me and I don't want to risk messing with my results.

My rx says to take it on an empty stomach so I take it at least an hour before breakfast. I don't know if it makes much difference if any, but I decided to follow the label.