Propecia and ED

[Dan26]

Hey dude, first of all sorry that my reply may not be useful to you, but something you said sparked a question for me, and maybe someone here can help answer it.

You said,

"i happen to think that men's tolerance to inhibiting dht varies across the board as some men have less dht in their systems to begin with, but have a higher sensitivity to it. my point being that i think 0.5mg for me was quite a lot."

Is this something a doctor can test for? Are there good candidates and bad candidates for Propecia?

Sorry again that I am not really contributing, but the way the body/hormones/genes work really sparks a lot of interest and questions for me. I noticed my facial hair starting to come in a bit better soon after i noticed i am losing my hair. Also noticed in the last year or so I pee extremely frequently. Just wierd how the body works. Also my bro started balding the exact same time as me, yet he had a full beardway before he startin balding (i dont have close to what he does), and is generally more hairy, yet im more muscular. It's messed man! I don't understand! Do these doctors even have a clue! Sorry im goin off here lol, I sincerely hope your health and situation improves.

Hopefully the future is bright with some of these bio-tecnology companies. I way rather be noticable bald and get "the cure" when it comes out, then mess with my hormones and risk my health, while holding on to some hair that will eventually fall out and need to be repaired/replaced anyway.

[philippe]

hey dan, while i am no expert, yes, the amount of dht in the male body, as well as the body's tolerance to dht, varies. an endocrinologist would be the doctor to speak to with regards to getting your hormone levels checked.

[philippe]

I hope this extract answers to the 'herbs and supplements' required for restoration:



From the little research there is in this area, it seems DHT is the only way to help repair the damage done through androgen deprivation.

ZINC may be a good method of increasing DHT/Androgens, there are studies that show in high doses it acts as a mild 5AR inhibitor, but these effects are negated due to its ability to upregulate a wide variety of androgens.

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs...85018109009378

hey uk, thanks for the info--it does not say, however, what dosage of zinc is necessary to get things moving in the right direction?

[25 going on 65]

DHT-5 is also engaged in the nitric-oxide mediated penile erection, there are several studies that have shown long term persistent damage to erectile tissue through the deprivation of androgens (specifically DHT-5 in most cases) that have failed to reverse in rat model.

I have read two of these studies and while they are definitely useful, I would be cautious about extrapolating the results to humans taking prescribed doses of finasteride for these reasons:
-Rats given finasteride were given obscenely high doses, literally between 60 and 10's of 1000's of times the amount per kg body weight that humans take for hair loss. If any of us was to take, eg, 2,000 Propecia tablets every day, there is no telling how extreme the side effects would be.
-Rats which were castrated still showed significantly greater changes in penile tissue than those that were taking many times more finasteride per kg body weight than what we take for hair loss. So even "suicide doses" of fin weren't able to approximate the tissue changes that rats endure from castration.
-The final point is that these are rats and not people, which in some clinical studies is irrelevant but not in others (in terms of whether the results apply to humans). We're not sure if humans would respond the same way, or to the same extent, even on these insane fin doses.

I am convinced PFS is real for a small # of guys, but I would just be careful about assuming that what we see in rats taking the equivalent of 60-10k Propecia daily, applies also to humans taking 1 Propecia daily. It potentially might even lead us down an unhelpful road in trying to understand and treat PFS.

[philippe]

25 going on 65, i appreciate your input but i started this thread as a means to find solutions for combatting e.d. post finasteride use. i was on finasteride for 14 months and in that time i KNOW i suffered from e.d.--how severe or permanent is yet to be determined. i use the scientific method when taking any medication, i.e. i keep a close monitor on my body, and i don't manifest side effects where there are none. i am an athlete and have kept my body in tip top shape as well as my diet. it is not, in my case, a coincidence that i now have e.d. after taking finasteride for 14 months.

what i, and many men, need now is guidance with combatting and hopefully reversing these side effects in a natural way, i.e., herbs, supplements, etc, etc.

[25 going on 65]

25 going on 65, i appreciate your input but i started this thread as a means to find solutions for combatting e.d. post finasteride use. i was on finasteride for 14 months and in that time i KNOW i suffered from e.d.--how severe or permanent is yet to be determined. i use the scientific method when taking any medication, i.e. i keep a close monitor on my body, and i don't manifest side effects where there are none. i am an athlete and have kept my body in tip top shape as well as my diet. it is not, in my case, a coincidence that i now have e.d. after taking finasteride for 14 months.

what i, and many men, need now is guidance with combatting and hopefully reversing these side effects in a natural way, i.e., herbs, supplements, etc, etc.

You won't likely need any supplements or herbs after quitting fin. Most men see their side effects reverse on their own after quitting. If this isn't the case for you, I can't really add anything to what others have recommended here, though my first step would be to see an endocrinologist.
If you are worried about a smooth recovery, tapering more slowly than what you propose would probably be a safer bet. If I understand correctly you plan to take .5 mg every couple days and then stop; I would consider halving the dosage every month or two and then quitting once it's too inconvenient to cut the pills smaller.
I'm not a doctor so I should tell you to consult with the prescribing physician about your tapering method. However my guess is that he or she will tell you to "just quit and you'll be fine," which is OK for most men but would increase the risk of a rocky "recovery" for those who are more prone to post-fin issues. I have no problems on fin and when/if I quit the drug, even I plan to taper slowly instead of quitting all at one time.

[UK_]

hey uk, thanks for the info--it does not say, however, what dosage of zinc is necessary to get things moving in the right direction?

It's difficult to say even if Zinc will have an effect, people who have been afflicted by PFS have gone to extremes (taking DHT steroids such as Proviron) only to see their rapid week-long improvement crash and them return to baseline sometimes with even WORSE side effects this time around.

There really is NO WAY of 'curing' PFS, researchers have no idea as to why it occurs or who is more likely to be susceptible, my best guess is the drug [for some people] has inflicted some sort of intracellular downregulation of 5AR activity, which has had an impact on the release of key neurosteroids such as progesterone (research exists that shows BOTH types of 5AR play a role in the synthesis/aromatization of SOME neurosteroids). This has then had a knock-on effect on some kind of doperminergic/serotonin neurotransmission parameter as the side effects (absent orgasm, genital numbness, brain fog) associated with persistent SSRI sexual dysfunction is VERY similar almost exactly the same as PFS symptoms.

There's simply no single set solution available yet to resolve PFS, your only option is to see your doctor and get a full hormonal profile done.