Finasteride sides - Doctor appointment log & help request - Page 3 - BaldTruthTalk.com
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  1. #21
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    Some thoughts on TRT, please feel free to weigh in:

    I personally feel testosterone therapy will not have the desired impact as finasteride has created some sort of intracellular down-regulation of 5AR activity. In this sense, your body has been endocrinologically moved toward converting more test into estradiol, if estradiol is excessive your body simply reduces its 'baseline' production of testosterone. So individuals are now left with the symptoms of low testosterone, but remember that testosterone production is something the body has no problem with, it's the down-regulated activity of 5AR that is pushing estradiol up and reducing the activity of neurosteroids throughout the nervous system. Doctors simply look at the low testosterone levels and put the patient on TRT, so now they have created two problems from one, not only has the body gained an intracellular down-regulation of 5AR, but it is now with the belief that it does not need to naturally produce any more testosterone due to the new exogenous supply. The problems may seem resolved, as the return of increased testosterone alleviates some symptoms, but the root of the problem is still there, and what is all that excess testosterone being converted to? That's right, ESTRADIOL.

    DHT therapy might help, but will it last? That's the main concern, some people suffering from PFS have had some success with Proviron - but nothing amazing which tells me something serious has gone wrong with the function of 5AR. The fact that some individuals feel as if they have entered some prepubertal state also indicates that finasteride may have destroyed a large proportion of androgen receptors, if something in your body is not in use, the body will simply remove it.

  2. #22
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    I have managed to grow a long white beard with the time I have spent researching this, but I personally believe that the impact of finasteride has a domino effect on the endocrine system which then knocks back neurosteroids which then knocks back issues to do with dopamine receptors in the brain.

    I say this because I have always strongly believed the side effects experienced by some SSRI users (genital numbness and sexual sexual anhedonia in particular) are similar to PFS sufferers in that the penis feels numb and disconnected, that when an orgasm takes place nothing at all is felt, it is simply 'mechanistic'.

    I dont believe there is localised nerve damage because the actual function of the penis still works, rather it may be a dopamine issue:

    A strong case can be made that many of the side effect of SSRIs, both sexual and otherwise, are dopamine dependent [13]. Data suggest that SSRIs can inhibit dopaminergic neurotransmission, not only by their effects on dopamine secretion or recapture, or on dopaminergic receptors, but also indirectly through serotonergic mediation [14]. Complex changes of dopaminergic neurotransmission (mostly antidopaminergic effects) have been described with SSRIs [10]. The partial reversal of symptoms with dopamine agonists or reuptake inhibitors in Case #3 strengthens the case for a role of downregulation of dopaminergic neurotransmission as a cause of persistent SSRI sexual side effects

    Besides central nervous system (CNS) alterations,it is also possible that peripheral changes are caused by SSRIs. For example, 95% of the serotonin receptors in the body are outside the brain, many in the peripheral nerves [16], and only 1–2% of serotonin is located in the CNS [17]. Thus, it has been postulated that SSRIs, in part, cause sexual problems because of the inhibition of the serotonin receptors in the peripheral nerves [16,17]. While any or all of these changes may be responsible for SSRI sexual side effects, no studies have been performed to validate that these changes are normalized after discontinuation of therapy. It is therefore possible that sometimes, these parameters remain persistently altered. However, at least
    two of these biomarkers––serum testosterone and prolactin––were normal in the cases reported here. Second, although rare, many publications point
    to a role of SSRIs in the occurrence of extrapyrimidal effects such as bradykinesia, rigidity, akathisia, and acute dystonia [18]. These effects can sometimes be persistent even after drug discontinuance [19], an example of other longerlasting side effects caused by SSRIs. Perhaps, persistent sexual side effects are caused by a similar mechanism to extrapyramidal effects, namely, adverse but unclearly defined neurological alterations in areas of the nervous system responsible for sexual arousal and functioning.
    .

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by UK_ View Post
    Some thoughts on TRT, please feel free to weigh in:

    I personally feel testosterone therapy will not have the desired impact as finasteride has created some sort of intracellular down-regulation of 5AR activity. In this sense, your body has been endocrinologically moved toward converting more test into estradiol, if estradiol is excessive your body simply reduces its 'baseline' production of testosterone. So individuals are now left with the symptoms of low testosterone, but remember that testosterone production is something the body has no problem with, it's the down-regulated activity of 5AR that is pushing estradiol up and reducing the activity of neurosteroids throughout the nervous system. Doctors simply look at the low testosterone levels and put the patient on TRT, so now they have created two problems from one, not only has the body gained an intracellular down-regulation of 5AR, but it is now with the belief that it does not need to naturally produce any more testosterone due to the new exogenous supply. The problems may seem resolved, as the return of increased testosterone alleviates some symptoms, but the root of the problem is still there, and what is all that excess testosterone being converted to? That's right, ESTRADIOL.

    DHT therapy might help, but will it last? That's the main concern, some people suffering from PFS have had some success with Proviron - but nothing amazing which tells me something serious has gone wrong with the function of 5AR. The fact that some individuals feel as if they have entered some prepubertal state also indicates that finasteride may have destroyed a large proportion of androgen receptors, if something in your body is not in use, the body will simply remove it.
    fukin scary shit. One of the reasons I for good quit was because it's effect on neurosteroids. Some guy in ************ posted a study 6 months ago and they were srsly fuked up.

    Do you have an account in propeciahelp? Are your sides better man? You seem to know this stuff very much.

  4. #24
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    What cascade might fin cause to affect neurosteroids? I ask because 5-ar type I is involved in neurosteroid synthesis, but type II is not, and fin inhibits type II but not type I.
    I'm not denying it could somehow be possible, just looking for anyone's best explanation as to how this indirect relationship might work?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maradona View Post
    fukin scary shit. One of the reasons I for good quit was because it's effect on neurosteroids. Some guy in ************ posted a study 6 months ago and they were srsly fuked up.

    Do you have an account in propeciahelp? Are your sides better man? You seem to know this stuff very much.
    Well the more I look into this problem the more I realise that Finasteride has caused some kind of domino effect that travels through issues regarding the endocrine system (neurosteroids) and leading to issues impacting dopamine/serotonin etc. The reason I say this is because 95% of serotonin receptor/activity occurs outside the brain, but dopamine is also playing a part here.

    All of this madness is happening because of the downregulated/damaged intracellular activity of 5AR - that's where the first domino falls.

    I dont have a propeciahelp account.

    Maradona if you look at what is known as "post SSRI sexual dysfunction" - the comparison in descriptions of sexual side effects (i.e. no feeling, totally numb, no orgasm) is almost exactly similar to the complaints as PFS sufferers.

  6. #26
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    Geeze! reading all this is making me really not want to start propecia. I'm 19. There must be a way to determine if you chances of getting PFS are high or low...is there? Hormone level test maybe?? I mean some guys genetics are just so strong, maybe their DHT isn't all that high, so propecia would not be a good idea. I dunno, what are your thoughts???

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan26 View Post
    Geeze! reading all this is making me really not want to start propecia. I'm 19. There must be a way to determine if you chances of getting PFS are high or low...is there? Hormone level test maybe?? I mean some guys genetics are just so strong, maybe their DHT isn't all that high, so propecia would not be a good idea. I dunno, what are your thoughts???
    Keep away from it - and especially keep away from anti-depressants - finasteride sexual sides are nothing compared to SSRI sides.... those forums are just horrid places.

    The human body has had 3 billion years of field testing data to go by lol - we are so arrogant to think we know the effects of substances that block 5AR.... of course there is a genetic aspect to all this... plz go on propeciahelp.com an read the posts by member called "awor", he knows this shit inside out 1000x better than I do.

    I was raised all my life taught to fear and avoid cannabis, society teaches you that, but as I grew older... I realised the most dangerous drugs are those that are sitting behind the shelf of a smiling doctor writing you a prescription with a corporate logo on. You cant monopolize cannabis which is why it remains illegal.

    Question to Maradona: have you tried the herb "Yohimbine"?

  8. #28
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    Thanks for all the feedback!

    Just wanted to raise the point that I do sometimes have good days. Doesn't this suggest that whatever has been affected could potentially be fixed? Maybe it's a matter of resolving a hormonal imbalance, rather than a permanent lack of sensitivity/libido.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by UK_ View Post
    Keep away from it - and especially keep away from anti-depressants - finasteride sexual sides are nothing compared to SSRI sides.... those forums are just horrid places.

    The human body has had 3 billion years of field testing data to go by lol - we are so arrogant to think we know the effects of substances that block 5AR.... of course there is a genetic aspect to all this... plz go on propeciahelp.com an read the posts by member called "awor", he knows this shit inside out 1000x better than I do.

    I was raised all my life taught to fear and avoid cannabis, society teaches you that, but as I grew older... I realised the most dangerous drugs are those that are sitting behind the shelf of a smiling doctor writing you a prescription with a corporate logo on. You cant monopolize cannabis which is why it remains illegal.

    Question to Maradona: have you tried the herb "Yohimbine"?
    I have to agree with you on cannabis. I wasn't forbidden to cannabis I just thought it was bad because people said that etc.

    But the world is different. Not everything they say it's true, even if it has a safety label on it.

    Cannabis is the best drug ever. I get the same effects with alcohol. I just don't give a damn about MPB when I'm drunk but it is true alcohol is very bad for your body. I haven't had cannabis in 2 years though!

    No man. I haven't tried anything to combat PFS. I'll just keep waiting out because I seem to be getting better. My erections are ok when I need them now. My sides are other parts of the body. My prostate is ****ed from finasteride for example.

    I don't want to mess with my body anymore either unless it's something you rub yourself with or it becomes ultra necessary.

    I'll keep waiting .

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisis View Post
    Thanks for all the feedback!

    Just wanted to raise the point that I do sometimes have good days. Doesn't this suggest that whatever has been affected could potentially be fixed? Maybe it's a matter of resolving a hormonal imbalance, rather than a permanent lack of sensitivity/libido.
    Yes it could mean you will get better. If you check propeciahelp.com those guys who had up and downs get better eventually.

    Lucky you. Some guys at propeciahelp are like at 0% progress despite everything they've used.

    You feel better somedays with no treatment right?

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