Spexhair SMP into scar with Beauty Medical in Milan 19th July 2012

[Stevie R]

Yes I hear ya but I have not seen any dots that are visible below the chin in the 5 or 6 cases I have seen, have you? If I would see just one bad case I would not do beard fue but I haven't see one nor has anyone came out bothered by it that I have not seen the picture of, so that is why I will do a small amount of beard first, then evaluate.

[sp8rky]

No, I've never seen white dotting from beard fue.

[Jotronic]

StevieR,

Consider this. I have no professional association with Beauty Medical or any other SMP clinic and my clinic does not perform FUE so I have no dog in this fight, meaning, I have no benefit from any option you decide on. I just have my experience from having multiple procedures and seeing thousands of results in person.

Consider your point about beard hair..."I mean some hairs are just thicker than others. " This is true, but in your case, with your donor scar filled with beard hair, it will be hair that is "thicker than others" in a linear arrangement along the back of your scalp. You cannot consider beard hair vs. scalp hair on a one to one ratio. You have to consider the big picture. How will a line of thicker, stronger hairs (200 or so?) look, even with non beard hairs in between, at an unusually high concentration that does not exist anywhere else on your scalp? At a 1 guard or 2 guard this will stand out more than if the hair is longer. See wutteye mean?

That is the end for me. Do what you want, good luck with it, and please share with the group if/when you do anything. I wish you well.

Topcat,

Some patients experienced massive scarring and zero growth from plucking and Acell FACT

Plucking and Acell was promoted fast and hard including on TBT radio program FACT

Beard hair has helped some of these patients FACT

This is a very dirty business because not because of the money but because many are being harmed FACT

The above points are only scratching the surface FACT

Technically, those are not facts. They are opinions. Just sayin

[Stevie R]

@Jotonic that is why I will do a small session first, small enough to get to not really make a differnce with some body hair. But again I don't think it will be a problem as my head hair and beard hair are very close, in fact I think it may benefit more. Also my scar is so small that I think I may be able to go to a zero, depending on the scars pigment and how well the fraxel hits it, so then we are talking about stubble and how could anyone tell the differnce in stubble? That being said I hear what you are saying but people have all sorts of shadows and bumps back there and the pics I have seen of guys with beard hair in scars I can't tell, maybe a couple with wider scars, maybe, but again mine is thin so I don't think it will be a problem.

[Stevie R]

Just interested though Jotonic have you seen cases with beard hair fue into a small scar, say 1mm wide?

[Jotronic]

Just interested though Jotonic have you seen cases with beard hair fue into a small scar, say 1mm wide?

No, I have not seen anyone place beard hair into a 1mm scar, or at least not that I can recall.

[Stevie R]

@ Jotonic, well here is an example of a small scar I think it may be 1mm maybe 2 hard to tell with beard hair http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...VIEWTMP=Linear this is IWANTMYHEADSHAVEDBACKs scar fix, the beginning anyway. In the end it was perfect and on the Hairloss Help website under repairs if you search you can find his success some more with more pics and it is flawless, beard hair does not stick out because the surface of scarred skin is so small, which was my point. Also both me and IWANT have scars with hair growing through it, although mine will have more growth in the scar with time as only half has hair growing through it yet during that half it is 0.3-0.7mm wide, pretty much undetectible for me and it should still get smaller I am told by everyone(dermatologist, HT docs, and Fraxel people from 3 clinics all agree on this) so hopefully the rest of the scar will look like this. Which brings me to my next point that head hair will naturally blend with beard hair better than just beard hair in a scar that was done by the old strip and not trico. I am also hoping (and have been told) that the scar can shrink even more with fraxel, about 30 percent more in best case scenarios, it mostly just fades scars and helps the coloring which is key at a zero guard. No where is my scar greater that 1.2 mm at the most so I am grateful for that at least and it should get fixed up fairly well in my opinion.

However, if you have no experience with a dude with a 1mm scar and beard hair why would you say you have seen thousands of cases if you have not seen a case like mine? Also, when you said you have no dog in this fight, well there isn't a fight other than Spex is taking me for a walk down BSer's ally and he figured I wouldn't catch on, as for SMP looks good, but is it healthy? I bet you think it is, and chances are it is but I will wait, if I do it, I hope it works though for the fellas that have been coned into an HT.

Also, when you commented on topcat's post saying that his post stating the following:

some patients experienced massive scarring and zero growth from plucking and Acell FACT

Plucking and Acell was promoted fast and hard including on TBT radio program FACT

Beard hair has helped some of these patients FACT

This is a very dirty business because not because of the money but because many are being harmed FACT

The above points are only scratching the surface FACT

well when you said that those were opinions you lost me dude. Many have experienced large scarring with ACELL I see them all over the web dude, also beard hair has helped many, again all over the web, also it is a fact that many are harmed...ARE YOU KIDDING ME? These that I named are indisputable facts though not documented(the others I don't have as much knowledge on so I won't comment) and if I was gonna go to HASSON AND WONG I just changed my mind. If you say you have "no dog in this fight" why support SPEX and any new thing in the industry at every corner against me and topcat? Why act as if this industry helps more than it hurts when there are thousands on the web hoping to reverse themselves because doctors have manipulated them? And why question facts such as ACELL has contributed to scarring? This type of distortion on what is going on in this industry really stinks dude and you should take a reality shower peeeeeuuuuuu

[Kiwi]

@ Jotonic, well here is an example of a small scar I think it may be 1mm maybe 2 hard to tell with beard hair http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...VIEWTMP=Linear this is IWANTMYHEADSHAVEDBACKs scar fix, the beginning anyway. In the end it was perfect and on the Hairloss Help website under repairs if you search you can find his success some more with more pics and it is flawless, beard hair does not stick out because the surface of scarred skin is so small, which was my point. Also both me and IWANT have scars with hair growing through it, although mine will have more growth in the scar with time as only half has hair growing through it yet during that half it is 0.3-0.7mm wide, pretty much undetectible for me and it should still get smaller I am told by everyone(dermatologist, HT docs, and Fraxel people from 3 clinics all agree on this) so hopefully the rest of the scar will look like this. Which brings me to my next point that head hair will naturally blend with beard hair better than just beard hair in a scar that was done by the old strip and not trico. I am also hoping (and have been told) that the scar can shrink even more with fraxel, about 30 percent more in best case scenarios, it mostly just fades scars and helps the coloring which is key at a zero guard. No where is my scar greater that 1.2 mm at the most so I am grateful for that at least and it should get fixed up fairly well in my opinion.

However, if you have no experience with a dude with a 1mm scar and beard hair why would you say you have seen thousands of cases if you have not seen a case like mine? Also, when you said you have no dog in this fight, well there isn't a fight other than Spex is taking me for a walk down BSer's ally and he figured I wouldn't catch on, as for SMP looks good, but is it healthy? I bet you think it is, and chances are it is but I will wait, if I do it, I hope it works though for the fellas that have been coned into an HT.

Also, when you commented on topcat's post saying that his post stating the following:

some patients experienced massive scarring and zero growth from plucking and Acell FACT

Plucking and Acell was promoted fast and hard including on TBT radio program FACT

Beard hair has helped some of these patients FACT

This is a very dirty business because not because of the money but because many are being harmed FACT

The above points are only scratching the surface FACT

well when you said that those were opinions you lost me dude. Many have experienced large scarring with ACELL I see them all over the web dude, also beard hair has helped many, again all over the web, also it is a fact that many are harmed...ARE YOU KIDDING ME? These that I named are indisputable facts though not documented(the others I don't have as much knowledge on so I won't comment) and if I was gonna go to HASSON AND WONG I just changed my mind. If you say you have "no dog in this fight" why support SPEX and any new thing in the industry at every corner against me and topcat? Why act as if this industry helps more than it hurts when there are thousands on the web hoping to reverse themselves because doctors have manipulated them? And why question facts such as ACELL has contributed to scarring? This type of distortion on what is going on in this industry really stinks dude and you should take a reality shower peeeeeuuuuuu

1) you are wrong about those images - I have not seen a clean shaven picture anywhere on the net showing beard donor area... I wish I knew if there were no dots because I am considering BHT too.

I would NOT spend more money on this until I know. I'd rather spend money on the ink. Or whatever the hell it is.

I think that guys image was okay. You could still see the scar line though - it was just more disguised.

I wonder if fraxel into his scar would have made it even better. I bet it would have.

2) If you get BHT into your scar from your beard and the yield sucks. Then you might have white scars all over your face and an FUT scar.

3) I had FUT with ACELL. The graft survival rate was crap. I wish I did not have HT and just shaved my head.

[Stevie R]

@Kiwi, well I have not seen any white dotting under the chin area and if your scar is small your talking about a couple hundred beard hairs, you can look and see if IWANTMYHEADSHAVEDBACK had any on his other pics, their are about 5 others I have seen with beard extractions that I can't see any at all. If you watch his progression you see that he only does one round of FUE, not two, if you want it to be the best 2 rounds should be the way ya go in my opinion and he even said he wish he did at the end of it but he went for the tatto as well and was afaid the FUE would screw it up but was think about body hair for the future as he had done 200 beard already. He did do one fraxel but it wasn't in those pics, and he only did one round, I have been told it takes 4-6 to get the ultimate results from fraxel, that is fraxel restore. It is hard to make out how good it was but he relied to everyone that at a 1 the scar was camoed which others have had it camoed at a 1, many in fact. My main point was can you tell it was beard hair KIWI? I don't think so and I have a lot of beard under my chin and why do we need that hair anyway? I also have chest hair and a test of 25 or so won't hurt to just see what it looks like, as stubble you won't tell the difference. In the end IWANT had near perfection the only downside was he had a dented scar, if you know what I mean, that could have been fixed by fraxel, yet he only did 1 session. So, in my opinion by spending just another grand and a half and a little more patience he could have made that thing invisible at a 0. If you look at Feriduni's patient that had a 2-3 mm wide scar just one round about fixed him up without fraxel or anything as well as a number of others. All I am saying is that I can't tell that it is beard hair I see no scars on their faces and it gave them a good result to where they were able to get over their scar issue and as I pointed out you should be help if your trico was successful with head hair growing through. I realize my result might not be as good but then again it may be better, we will see. But, I have thought about SMP as a filler but don't know about taking a trip every 2 years to do it, that would get old. Maybe if they come out with a legitimate permanent SMP I will do it. I figure I have 2-3 years for that decision anyway as the FUE, fraxel mix should do the trick as it has done on others.

[Stevie R]

@Kiwi I will start fraxeling in a couple months and will let you know how it goes then I will FUE the scar in 6 or 7 months or so. I was told that fraxel helps with the pigment and can shrink it 30 percent at best. I understand the worry of dots on the face, but I would stick to under the chin of only 100 and some body hair. Take a look at the repair section of the Hairloss Help Forum as I mention a better SMP place in Italy in the "be patient" postings. SO far I have lasered out my hairs and have been taking Vitamin A to get the area smoothed out and it has worked well, next week I will finish it off with fraxel. I don't really intend on ever cutting my hair to a 0 again (unless I get back in the army, which may or may not happen and even then I may rock a 1 grade) so I am not really worried, this is just a mental thing for me as some how I got sucked in and didn't realize the risks and want to get it as unnoticeable as possible. The way I figure it it is way cheaper and much more effective to do the way I am doing it, also I have not seen one case where Milena has covered a scar at a 1 grade or 0 grade on her website and if that is what you want why bother with her clinic? Do you think she is the only one out there that does it? Well she ain't, perhaps the 1 grade cut will look no good with her clinic as Spex is backing out of it now, IDK. What I do know is that people have gotten over their scar by doing exactly what I am doing, but do what you will I am just the messenger and have no tie to any clinic unlike Spex, Jotonic and the many other dudes out there with their own interests or the interests of their clinics. Take a look at that site dude I list most all the reair cases I have seen as well as the SMP place that is somehwhere in Italy.

[Stevie R]

@Kiwi and anyone else interested, here is an example of how the scar can be reduced by derma rolling http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...VIEWTMP=Linear the guys name is LM and I believe he has had some tattooing done but it has faded a bit after derma rolling, you can see in just the difference between the 3rd and 4th treatments, imagine if he had hair in there. Also I feel his scar if it was not quite as long would look exactly like bumps that many have on their head there especially if hair was in it and you can see it was completely covered at a 1 guard, although I don't know how much his skin tone or gray hair affects the look, yet I personally believe dark hair in a scar with light skin can produce equally significant results since you can see through dark hair easier and white spots are visible throughout a dark headed person more so than a light haired Caucasians, if that makes since to ya. So even though dark hair is worse for concealing it I think it may be better or equally as good fixing it maybe better, but that is just my opinion. However I fill it is harder for darker skinned guys to fix it and I usually disregard those types of repair cases as I am not darker skinned myself so it would not benefit me. I think LM got some excellent results here though at a very minimal cost and no risk (unless like me you have a raised scar which is why I am waiting for my scar to go down before I do rolling which may be 2 years from know after FUE, fraxel, and maybe SMP(but not likely as I stated beforehand)). All you have to do to hear LM tell it is keep the roller clean and do it once a week, don't sound to bad right? Anyway I wanted to post this for everyone to show the many ways to fix these scars as it seems it is hard to find any results from derma rolling. How wide is your scar KIWI? Also whatever you do is what you do I don't give a hooting hell, just though I'd post these posts for you and the many others that are trying to fix their scar as I was in that boat a while back before I found out what to do and where to do it.

[Stevie R]

Also Kiwi I never said a IWANTMYHEADSHAVEDBACK or any other was "shaven" but he an others have camouflaged it at a zero to where you wouldn't tell that it was an HT scar or in some cases you couldn't tell anything like this guy http://www.*********************.com...=2968&DrID=437. I also would like to point out that this guy probably has not done fraxel, derma rolling, or anything but one session of FUE and he got a result that is great and is totally disguised at a grade one and nearly invisible at a grade 0, personally I would never shave with a razor anyway dude...too much work and only a few can pull it off like Steve Austin lol.

[sp8rky]

Wish I could have all my beard on my head, I don't like shaving anyway!

[Jotronic]

StevieR,

@ Jotonic, well here is an example of a small scar I think it may be 1mm maybe 2 hard to tell with beard hair http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...VIEWTMP=Linear this is IWANTMYHEADSHAVEDBACKs scar fix, the beginning anyway. In the end it was perfect and on the Hairloss Help website under repairs if you search you can find his success some more with more pics and it is flawless, beard hair does not stick out because the surface of scarred skin is so small, which was my point. Also both me and IWANT have scars with hair growing through it, although mine will have more growth in the scar with time as only half has hair growing through it yet during that half it is 0.3-0.7mm wide, pretty much undetectible for me and it should still get smaller I am told by everyone(dermatologist, HT docs, and Fraxel people from 3 clinics all agree on this) so hopefully the rest of the scar will look like this. Which brings me to my next point that head hair will naturally blend with beard hair better than just beard hair in a scar that was done by the old strip and not trico. I am also hoping (and have been told) that the scar can shrink even more with fraxel, about 30 percent more in best case scenarios, it mostly just fades scars and helps the coloring which is key at a zero guard. No where is my scar greater that 1.2 mm at the most so I am grateful for that at least and it should get fixed up fairly well in my opinion.

I would not call it flawless but like I said, I wish you well in this. Good luck.

However, if you have no experience with a dude with a 1mm scar and beard hair why would you say you have seen thousands of cases if you have not seen a case like mine?

I said it because it's true. I have never met a patient of our clinic or any other clinic that has come into our office with beard hair into their 1mm donor scar. This is most likely because most people would see no need for such actions. I have seen scars with beard hair, just not those at 1mm which was your question to begin with. I fail to see why this is a difficult concept to grasp unless you think this is a very common procedure, of which I can tell you, it is not.

Also, when you said you have no dog in this fight, well there isn't a fight other than Spex is taking me for a walk down BSer's ally and he figured I wouldn't catch on, as for SMP looks good, but is it healthy? I bet you think it is, and chances are it is but I will wait, if I do it, I hope it works though for the fellas that have been coned into an HT.

"I don't have a dog in this fight" is an expression. It means that I am unaffected personally, financially and professionally. I think, but do not know for certain, that SMP is safe but I am learning more as I get time to continue my research just like everyone else at this point.

well when you said that those were opinions you lost me dude.

I was joking with Topcat. It is a basic lesson learned in elementary school, the literal difference between fact and opinion. If you are not aware of the differences then you obviously would not understand.

Many have experienced large scarring with ACELL I see them all over the web dude

I'm well aware of what Acell is and what it does and does not do. I was the first person in this industry to actually talk to Acell about it's potential and I never EVER thought that it would do a fraction of what other clinics claimed it would. Wide scarring from Acell? I've seen it and I've spoken to patients that have had this problem after promises were given but not delivered like most of the BS that is spread via the internet. While being "all over the web" is subjective I agree that there is bad scarring from Acell but I can't say it is "many". This is an opinion of yours, not a fact.

beard hair has helped many, again all over the web

I never said it hasn't but how many cases constitutes "all over the web"? Seems to be rather loose language.

it is a fact that many are harmed...ARE YOU KIDDING ME? These that I named are indisputable facts though not documented

No documented? Huh? I do what I do because I was "harmed" twenty years ago. I was 22 years old with two half centimeter donor scars stacked on top of each other. I had pluggy mini-micro grafts sticking out of my hairline (they WERE my hairline) at various crazy angles and directions and no other hair on top by the time I was 31. Like I said earlier, I was joking with Topcat.

if I was gonna go to HASSON AND WONG I just changed my mind.

We both know that you would never come to us to begin with. We don't perform FUE nor do we perform beard hair transplants so this is an empty comment.

If you say you have "no dog in this fight" why support SPEX and any new thing in the industry at every corner against me and topcat?

Support? No. I did not care for how you were badgering Spex on this #1 guard shave issue so I spoke up. You seem to want to berate Spex and call into question his integrity because he did not shave his head. I find this to be needless bullying and rather silly. I do not know Spex personally. I have only recently spoken to him on the phone once and I have had maybe five emails with him over the past ten years. I am going to meet him for the first time however in LA later this month.

What "new things" am I supporting at every corner against you and Topcat??? Aside from my vague support of temporary SMP name ONE new technology that I've supported in arguments against you or Topcat. What connection do you and Topcat have? Am I missing something here?

Why act as if this industry helps more than it hurts when there are thousands on the web hoping to reverse themselves because doctors have manipulated them?

Care to qualify that? How do you know that there are more that are hurt from hair restoration than are helped? Are you talking over the past fifty years or are you talking about 2011 alone? Somewhere in between? And what qualifies as "hurt"? A big scar? A graft that is not angled the same as 4417 other grafts? That is a very ambiguous statement. In 2011 the total number of people that are estimated to have had surgical hair restoration was 279,381. By your statement this would mean that at least 139,691 patients were "hurt". Again, what does this mean and how do you KNOW that more have been hurt than helped? And to clarify, I don't act as if this industry has helped more than it has hurt. I act as myself, someone that wants to help others and create change for the better where I can.

And why question facts such as ACELL has contributed to scarring? This type of distortion on what is going on in this industry really stinks dude and you should take a reality shower peeeeeuuuuuu

Again, I was joking with Topcat but let me ask you. You have a habit of saying that something you are pointing out is "all over the web". With regards to bad scarring from Acell, would you mind explaining what "all over the web means"? Does this represent 2 cases? 7 cases? 5200 cases? While I don't have links saved or images archived I can only recall two cases of scarring that is significantly worse after Acell treatment than before. I'm not doubting but I'm question what you mean when you make bold statements like "all over the web". I'm not a fan of Acell as I mentioned above so it is apparent that you misunderstood my joke and decided to run on a tangent. Sorry for the confusion.

[Stevie R]

@Jotonic, first off this was his first pass, as anyone knows it takes multiple to be flawless. Also by saying not documented I was saying that this industry does not care to tell their customers the risks of large scars or the amount f people with large scars. I meant by saying "if I was going to Hasson and Wong I just changed my mind" if I was a dude looking at your clinic your twisting of obvious facts presented by topcat is BS and therefore I would not trust Hasson and Wong cause you are associated with them. I know what "no dog in this fight" means lol I said it the post before, but still I am skeptical of anyone that works for this industry with no alterior motives. Also I wasn't badgering Spex, he said he would cut his hair short then changed his mind, I made it known I felt that was fishy since if the tat was so great why nnot flaunt it at a low grade? Many are hurt by the industry, don't know how many, lots I am sure. You were joking with topcat? Well you fooled me, but if you did joke why defend your joke? It is a fact that many have been helped by beard hair, many have been harmed by ACELL, how many? IDK, but the scars I have seen are grousome and I would never do it, but you acted like it never happens and your double talk on this issue is pathetic, we all know what topcat said rings of truth. Also I never said more are hurt than helped, but IDK, it seems to me quite a few are hurt, then they have to pay for it again to get fixed and I think you and anyone else understood my meaning. All over the web means on the internet dude, sorry I don't watch people hacking themselves up all day for profit, if I would though I would have never went through with my mistake of an HT. I don't think that "all over the web" is a bold statement...lol. However, I do know that dudes get kicke doff sites for speaking out against strip or HT all together, I do know that ACELL causes worse scars in some cases, and I do know that beard hair has fixed many guys scar cases. I don't think "many" matters to me or any other rational guy who wished to undergo this type of procedure as I would not do ACELL with the results I have seen on strip scars. Also, everyone that has used beard on their scar has been happy that I have talked to or seen on the INTERNET, can I be specific no, why? Because I have a life and I don't document every case but I have presented a case in which the individual was pleased and it is obvious if you hang on these forums long enough you see what is going on in this industry, and it ain't pretty. However, Spex could not show me one case of a scar getting 10 percent yield or less, and you cannot prove that topcat is wrong in his assessment of facts. Basically I am here so that see posts from people like you and Spex (Industry parrots) can see an alternative opinion, a guy who genuinely wants to help, with no string attached. I have no ties to a certain clinic, I have opinions based on what I have seen in repair cases, that is all I am interested in because that is the only reason I think anyone should get an HT, to fix themselves from prior HT's. Parrots like you trick guys into an HT or act as if the industry does no wrong, I thought you were genuine until you posted that response to topcat, and I know you are gonna say "I was joking" but I don't believe you nor do I have any more need of you or Spex's opinion as you are just parrots to me.