Spexhair SMP into scar with Beauty Medical in Milan 19th July 2012

[Spex]

Gosh well certainly appears my topic has turned into a car crash. I will leave you guys to hack it out from here. FYI i ran the safety questions past Dr Feller and Dr Lindsey and both agree that this procedure is very safe indeed, non issue as far as they are concerned.


Steve, Joe's comment he was referring to another company, not Milena Lardi's technique.

I did indeed mention on the phone to you that FUE or BHT ( which i recommend you do first )can and does produce lower yield due to the nature of the process and also grafting into scars regardless of size can produce lower yield as it all depends how vascular the scar is. It can produce low yield of 10% if not less. FACT. Regardless of Dr performing the session. I didnt say thats what you can expect. I said be aware that yield can be low, FACT.

If you expect you will get 80% then great i hope your expectations become reality. As i mentioned on the phone and emphasised it, i would suggest keeping expectations in check - any veteran will confirm FUE/ BHT into scars is unpredictable hence a test session is the way forward and a good timeline to gauge the success would be minimum of 18 months - and if any Dr gives you a "guarantee" on a % yield prior to a session - i recommend you get that in writing so you have some come back if/when required ;-)

If you think ALL the grafting into scar results are online and all successful, you are sorely mistaken. There are countless that will never make it online for one reason or another but i can assure you if they were all successful they would be online ;-)

I haven't written FUE off at all. I did it into my scar and it was successful. I recommend you firstly did a test FUE into your scar given the tiny size of it. SMP is a last resort and you need to wait on that as mentioned and see others document their cases.

I do not plan to shave down on a grade 1. I have no need and on top of that a hectic schedule and as of right now i can wear a grade 2 wet in the sun with real confidence as show via video and pics and it blends in lovely.

Best of luck and i will try check in see how you are getting on. Keep your expectations in check is the best advice i can offer you.


Best Regards,

Spencer (Spex)

[Stevie R]

@Spex, I would like you to give me just one link, just one where the yield was as low as 10 percent, then I would ask if scar grafting was done by a doc that has done hundreds of scar grafting procedures, then I would ask how big the scar is as it seems smaller scars get better yield. The very few beard or body hair scar grafting I have seen has not all been posted by docs or clinics but by individuals so I expect the same would be true if the work was not satisfactory. Also the docs I have talked to seem to be the best by a wide concenses amongst many posters who have no private interests in the industry (like you know have with Milena's clinic) and you know I have no alternative interests other than getting my scar fixed and having everyone who wants the same to see the best option available. If it is a FACT how often would someone get 10 percent yield? I mean I think we can all agree that 10 percent yield would happen very very rarely, if not why haven't a bunch of people come on the forums showing there concerning and going off on rants how there FUE scar grafting has failed miserably (as they have done with tattoo turning blue for instance)? Also if every doctor in this industry says this procedure was safe I would still wait and as far as the going down to a one grade you posted earlier "When the time is right i will take it down to grade 1 and will upload pics and video." Why now the sudden change? But honestly I have plenty of time to see but for others who have done FUE into their scars and want a compliment they would love to see it...so why the sudden change of heart? I'm sorry if this post was too blunt but you have not posted any examples of fellas getting bad yields and I have never seen it so I would just have to assume that you are throwing out that FUE is inconsistent because you want everyone to get your SMP into their scars, I could be wrong but that is exactly how it seems.

[Spex]

Lol, Yep steve thats it - you got me, im that transparent and sleazy lol - I just need people to get SMP so bad that i will stop at nothing - lol !!!! - i just now want everyone to get SMP into scars and all of a sudden downplay FUE into scars... despite my well documented success with FUE into my own scar. - And despite the fact i have mentioned numerous times along with many others including doctors over the years that FUE into scars can and does produce lower yield. . .

I didnt mean to put the fear in you simply help educate you. Im not going to search out poor yield results into scars. I have nothing to prove to you, its a fact brother. You need do your own research which you are doing! If you feel my comments are BS, then hey lets simply agree to disagree and i hope you get the 80% + you expect. Its definitely the best way for YOU to go initially anyway.( Especially a test ) Speak to a good guy call EJ on the board. He is a true vet and level headed guy. He will be a good guy to speak to for you!

Everyones scar is different so all im doing or trying to is get you informed but understandable you want to question me as i work in the industry right and bound to be on the sell - thats my job right!!! Ask some of your buddies who you are communicating with privately over yield into scars. Its no big secret. Its a fact mate that yield into scars is unpredictable. Hey maybe after 10 years in the industry i misunderstood it all along and FUE yield is 80%+ is the norm - if so my bad!

The fact of the matter is you can not predict yield and you will only know after 18 months the success - So my advice - do a test.

I have no need to buzz on a 1mm right now as i have nothing to prove. I will when the time is right however to satisfy the minority of people and i have time to recover from it, but right now ive no intension to do it. I have documented my SMP pretty well, better than most. My scar looks great and a world apart from where it was and was inspected under high magnification by Dr Feller and Dr Lindsey both thought it looked great.

I only wish you the best but get informed and dont rush in. I suggest you continue to do your due diligence and take your time.

Speak to EJ. Good guy!!

Feel free to call me again anytime if you need/want clarification 011 44 7740 364731



Spencer (Spex)

[Stevie R]

Well if Dr Feller and Dr Lindsey say it is good then I'm sold...lol. Look if you can't give me an example then I will say that 10 percent yield into a scar is BS...I never said I think everyone gets 80 percent...but if I do 150 grafts and get 50 percent it will be a win as that many grafts don't cost much. 18 months to get the full effect I can agree on but to see improvement can be much earlier as anyone knows. I was never asking for your opinion on FUE anyway Spex and you must think we are naive to think you don't want to sell SMP, really? And look I hope you make money if it is legit which it looks like it is, and of course you will look even more legit if you say that FUE will suit me but your underlying tone of "10 percent yield" in my opinion, is BS and I am calling you out. You can lol all you want, FACT. Again if you cannot point to a "10 percent yield" then I will say it is BS as I have not found any nor have I seen anyone who has said they had have low yield in a small scar and the many docs I have talked to have said smaller scars result in better yields. As for a test session....what would be the point of throwing in a few hairs as of course the yield would be better with them as they don't have to fight for blood at all??? You don't have to answer though Spex as my mind is already made up and I was never asking for your opinion. All I ever asked you was about the SMP that YOU are promoting. Also if you want to back out of cutting your hair short to a 1 grade (which is not 1mm that would be a 0 grade) I don't care, fine, but you were the one that said you would and why wouldn't you have done it on your vacation if you were worried how folks would see you? Would that not have been the perfect time? But sure it is none of my business, it isn't like you are promoting anything, right? Also you putting words in my mouth in nearly ever post is ridiculous, and your defensive manor in which you respond with showing no evidence is equally ridiculous. I have shown posts of where it has made scars virtually invisible and again I have no dog in this fight I hope this SMP works, is safe ans so on and I think if people go to someone like Feridduni, Bisanga, Cole and a few others they can expect a good yield in a scar, especially if it is a smaller scar...but I am sure you will twist that around. Also I have talked to you already and you have not gave me any food for thought or any information that I have not had before and felt you just wanted me to stop questioning you here on the forums which is not a good sign in my opinion. So I have no reason to talk to you on the phone, I think your just frustrated and paranoid because you think or thought I was a "competitor" which of course I am not, and you think or thought I am trying to damage your little business which I am not. But people deserve the truth and another side on these forums, other than what the sells man wants them to think.

[sp8rky]

Stevie, whats the rush with finding out about SMP? You got plenty of time mate.
I assume you are going to go the BHT/FUE route first anyway, so wait the 18-24 months for that to grow in and by then, according to the timeframes we are told, the SMP should of vanished, and we will be able to see that on people who are having it now.
Spex did go pretty short in the 'holiday video' and TBH I couldn't see the scar at that length. Isn't there any piccys of other people on the internet that have had SMP and keep their heads shaved? (I haven't looked myself)

I read that ej is still getting BHT hairs breaking the surface now, and think he is near or past the 18 month mark now?

Who are you thinking of going to for FUE into the scar?

What's your recipient like?

[topcat]

Some patients experienced massive scarring and zero growth from plucking and Acell FACT

Plucking and Acell was promoted fast and hard including on TBT radio program FACT

Beard hair has helped some of these patients FACT

This is a very dirty business because not because of the money but because many are being harmed FACT

The above points are only scratching the surface FACT

[Stevie R]

@Sparky, there is no rush for me to find out about SMP brotha I just thought the whole "10 percent growth" comment Spex hit me up with was a bit bogus to say the least as I have seen no with such a complaint. I agree that Spex's tat looks good and he did a great job showing us, and I am impressed all I was saying was that he said this "When the time is right i will take it down to grade 1 and will upload pics and video." and then reneged on it, it will definitely benefit others if he shows us at a 1 like he said he would, but it is up to him I am just reminding him and others that he said he would so I am skeptical to why he says he won't now. Also I question it's safety, but I may be completely wrong fro questioning this, I agree but better safe than sorry, that is my motto in this industry.

My scar is very scar only 1mm at it's widest now after some cortisone shots and heal time. I will go with Bisanga or Feriduni most likely but a couple others have popped in my mind yet I will probably dismiss them. My beard hair is close to my head hair and I will use around 150 beard an 50 body hairs from my chest, then I will evaluate as they start growing. If I think that beard stands out too much then I will wait until they perfect the ACELL thing and do the rest with head hair later down the rode. However, I have seen many with excellent results with beard hair and don't think I have much to worry about and will proceed with another round, maybe two more rounds of beard hair. Also if beard hair is too thick I may find that body hair is perfect, either way the first grafting will be fairly low and I can adjust as I see fit if this makes sense. The reason I don't want head hair is with some patients you can see white dotting, for example I have seen a couple guys that can go down to a 1 grade but a zero the dots are more noticeable than the scar. I have seen a few guys however that have been very successful with beard hair into their scars and say they see no difference and I have seen a couple that have no sign of white dotting. I think beard stands out more if you have a fairly large scar, I don't think it is noticeable with a scar so thin and don't think anyone would notice at a 1 or 2 grade as natural head hair falls over it, which may be the grade I would have to wear it if I had white dots which then would not make sense if I even do it as I can wear my hair at a 1 1/2 guard without seeing the scar now even before I have had anything done. However, it seems in most case fraxel is the key at getting the scar unnoticeable at a 0 guard, yet I will do 4 fraxel sessions at a month apart before hand to try and reduce the scar further so my results will even be better. I will start my sessions in December and my FUE sometime in march/april/may timeframe, and in 2 years I will get more fraxel, 2.5 years the derma roller, and continue rolling until I am satisfied if I wasn't after theses steps.

[sp8rky]

So hows your recipient then?

[Stevie R]

Oh sorry, ya I have lasered hair away about 1 month back and have been hitting it up with vitamin a and it has reduced the little bumps to near nothing and I will fraxel in 1 1/2 week to make sure. Yet it was never noticeable to anyone else just me, how's yours?

[sp8rky]

Not bad, would of liked better directions and density, but who wouldnt. Ive had some surgically removed.
Do you have any transplanted hair left at the front? Are you aiming for a complete reversal?

[Jotronic]

@ Jotonic that makes since, I have a long wait anyway but I am not sure if I'm sold...What do you mean a blue streak? SMP leaves blue streaks...? Anyway thanks for the response bro and ya I think the FUE will get me set, but others can be helped by me asking questions and who knows maybe I may benefit from some SMP in the end

Truly temporary SMP is not tattoo. Permanent SMP can leave blue streaks, marks, dots, splotches, etc. as can regular tattoo.


I don't see why it is necessary to prod Spex on the #1 guard issue. Reminding him that at one point he said he'd shave is irrelevant and unnecessary. It is his head and he does have a life outside of the hair forums. Not everyone is comfortable shaving their head that short when dealing with every day life. Speaking from my own point of view, I could shave to a #1 guard or even a 0 guard and not really give a flip even with my donor scar being visible (I've done it before, documented) but I do have a responsibility to others that demand I have a certain consistency regarding my appearance. My wife for instance would not like it if I showed up to one of her concerts with my head shaved.

Regarding body hair, let us break down what is really being discussed. I consider body hair to include any and all hair below the chin. Beard hair is beard hair but I do not classify that as body hair for two reasons. First, it's still on the head. Second, it is usually a far different hair than a chest, leg or back hair, more coarse and robust. I consider it the third piece of the hair transplant trifecta where the other two pieces are obviously head hair and body hair.

I agree with Spex that body hair offers the potential for lowest yield assuming all other factors are equal (same patient, same doctor, etc). As low as 10%? Sure, maybe but in reality that can be the case for the best FUE or the best strip. Years ago body hair was a big deal and many forum members were rushing to use it as "filler". Now, the rush is not so great because of the great unpredictability of it's viability as the doctors themselves are now pulling back from recommending it quite so often. Instead you have beard hair being more prevalent when scalp hair is not an option or is in need of an adjunct. I've noticed this trend over the past couple of years and I've seen many BHT cases walk through our doors to convince me that BHT is not as successful, procedure for procedure, as scalp hair or even beard hair. The grafts are finer thus more delicate. The bundles are in thicker tissue that is more pliable as pressure is applied which distorts the angles of the shafts thus creating a stronger chance of transection. The tissue itself seems to be more delicate, almost brittle sometimes, compared to beard and scalp tissue as well. Overall, body hair just presents more challenges to get a good graft.

StevieR,

Just a thought but you appear to me to be extremely detail oriented so I find it a bit confusing that you would opt to use beard hair in a scar that is mostly less than 1mm in width when you could use scalp hair. 200 extractions spaced properly throughout your donor zone would leave zero evidence of surgery and I think the likelihood of visible scarring would be next to nothing. Compared to the chance that the beard hair will most likely stand out more I personally think scalp hair is better option. Not to mention, should you decide to grow your hair longer the scalp hair would have little chance of causing a visible difference to the surrounding landscape of your donor region. Beard hair might grow different, even curly or at least wavy. Even if your scalp hair is wavy it may not follow the same pattern. Just saying, and yes these are small details, but details I think you might be aware of if they ever do manifest.

[Stevie R]

Ya I am doing a reversal, I am not sure if the hairs are all removed..I think so it is hard to tell maybe a few remaining though. How much did it cost to surgically remove them? I thought that that was very expensive...Are you going to do more HTs in the future? But I was really impressed with your scar grafting though man let me know when yo cut down short after the redness goes away and all.

[sp8rky]

No redness evident now. Think it was 5.5 euros per grafts to remove and replant them in the scar, I think the $85 on the other Drs website was for the black and decker style plugs of old.
May do more fue into the scar, but dont know what this scar looks like with hair short atm, not cutting short for a while, so will have to wait until later for that.

[Stevie R]

@ Sparky, did you get white dots when the hairs were removed? I here ya on cuting short, are you gonna look into fraxel?

@Jotonic, I will not do scalp hair cause I don't want whit dots as I have seen some dudes with dots to wear they could not wear their hair at a lower grade anyway. I mean I can already wear my hair at a 1 1/2 grade without a scar showing so that is why. I don't think I will have a problem with the beard hair though as others have not with small scars, I mean some hairs are just thicker than others. Concerning the long hair thing I thought about this and if they are so different I will just cut the different hairs short and the head hairs will cover it up, if you understand me. I agree that there are no guarantees but I have not seen anyone with as low 10 percent yield into their scar and I would have because believe you me I have searched everywhere and nada. Also I said I may consider hair fue if i think beard sticks out too much but again I doubt that will happen. I was inquiring when he would take it down to a 1 because he had said he would, just look at what he said on August 8th but whatever I don't care I just think it is suspicious, perhaps he did and thought it would kill his new business venture, IDK but I don't really care I think it can work to hide a small scar but perhaps not with Milena as I have not seen one pic on her site that has covered a scar at a 1 or 0 grade... I just think Spex wants to turn people away from FUE into scars a bit and gets annoyed at me for posting these posts that encourage others to FUE their scars and move on. I don't blame him for promoting SMP to make money or to get others to do it (if it is safe) but I don't think it is right to try and discourage a proven method to camouflage a scar especially when many are watching that are unaware which way to go, that was my beef he can hut his locks however he wants. I did not know you did SMP in your scar can you show it to us? Did you do FUE also into the scar?

[sp8rky]

Yep I got some white dots, but no where near as many as the amount of FUE that has been taken.

I hear what Joe is saying though, your scar won't take much FUE to fill in so don't dismiss scalp FUE, if you do beard FUE then you are allowing the mistake you made to spread to your face aswell, at the moment it is localized to your scalp.

Not trying to influence you either way