Spexhair SMP into scar with Beauty Medical in Milan 19th July 2012

[northeastguy]

@ Delphi.... gotta say, I had to go back to older SMP threads because I remember some guy using your username beating down the process! It's nice to see people keep an open mind on new options. For me the main issue I had with SMP was the "forever" factor. Factor in what options one has if he doesn't like the outcome and I just wouldn't do it. Then comes a similar technique that fades over a course of a couple years with a more realistic look with the ability to enhance an outcome, I'm listening again....

[Stevie R]

Couldn't agree with Northeastguy more, we are listening...

[Jotronic]

I think it is important to keep something in mind here fellas. This version of SMP is not new. It is only new to us in North America. Milena has been performing this procedure for a few years in Italy and she has a long list of clients. If this was not what it appears to be then there would be plenty of evidence to refute what is being presented. I have yet to see a single case of this ink turning color (blue or green) and there are plenty of cases to look at. I have only seen cases of where it is working as claimed and then when it fades it does eventually disappear as I showed in my previous thread.

I'd also like to get something else cleared up. This is not a "tattoo". The ink is obviously different as is the application. The needles are different (smaller?) and the machine is different. The machine is purchased from a company that sells to all kinds of clients that perform similar makeup applications (eyebrows, lips, etc.) but Milena has had a custom circuit board designed that is proprietary for her purposes. The depth of application is more shallow (.5mm) than tattooing and it will not fade into a blotch and from what I have seen thus far it will not change color either.

Regarding Milena Lardi, I feel that she and her husband/business partner are good people. They've been in the cosmetic micro-pigmentation business since 1992. They started doing scalp micropigmentation a few years ago. Their machine and technique are being used by the dermatology department at the San Raffaele Hospital in Milan (a 1400 bed facility) where, if I understand correctly, burn victims benefit from Milena's SMP. Milena also works with the hospital by performing pro-bono areola reconstruction for breast cancer survivors and the work is outstanding.

Who can benefit from this?

1. Those patients that are so diffused even in their donor zones that surgery of any kind is a non-option. Filling in the top of the scalp as well as the donor zone, with a buzz cut, can be quite good.

2. Those that have had surgery in the past but are either tapped out or just don't want to go in for more work and need a top up of density can also benefit. For instance, my left part line is a bit wider than I'd like as an ideal and I've considered having Dr. Wong run a few grafts down this line for added density but I decided to let Milena have a go and it did help to tighten this area up a bit. It was only minor work so I did not have a miraculous before/after transformation and in fact others around me may find it challenging to see any real difference but it is something that I notice and I'm pleased with it.

3. Those that have not had surgery can benefit if they aren't ready for surgery and only have minor needs. Dr. Hasson has had a thinning crown for years. Ten years ago he started finasteride and it reversed the loss enough that he opted not to have Dr. Wong fill it. It hasn't been an issue since but he did lie down on the table (at Dr. Wong's suggestion) and allow Milena to fill it in. It worked but it is not a miracle. Instead of high density coverage he has a mild semi-permanent light Toppik effect. This can also work for those patients that have not lost enough hair to justify surgery but have lost enough hair to be noticeable. By filling in between the existing hairs the result can be quite good. I saw this on a patient in Italy back in March when I first met Milena. I know this patient personally so I know what the looked like before the treatment.

4. Patients with scarring. This does not only apply to hair transplant scars but to any scarring. The challenge here is that the physical make up of scar tissue is vastly different from skin tissue and the ink can "take" differently. Scar tissue requires a test application to see how it works. If the scar tissue is softer then the ink can spread somewhat and create a larger than intended dot. This isn't because the ink is failing but rather because the tissue is more permeable and the ink finds it's way into more nooks and crannies so to speak. Harder scar tissue works better. It takes ten days however for the test patch to be evaluated and if the result is positive then a full pass can be performed with a secondary pass as a touch up performed the next day.

If one falls under a more aggressive Norwood level and there is little to no hair in the recipient area then this is not a miracle cure. There is no third dimension to the result (actual hair standing up on the scalp) so if one gets too close and takes more than a passing glance at a patient's head then they may notice something that is "off" about the result. I can't say whether or not it would be obvious that there is ink where there should be hair but to one that knows anything about hair restoration it would be easier to pick out. To the casual observer from five to ten feet away it may be fine.

Finally, just because I had this done and even Dr. Hasson had it done does not mean that everyone else should rush to do the same and it should not be taken as an official endorsement, yet. What I do to myself has nothing to do with what anyone else should think of this. My reasoning was simple. The amount of work done is insignificant compared to what I've already undergone via surgery and if it was a failure for whatever reason (I could not think of any to be honest) then it would not be visible to anyone around me. I know this won't turn blue on my head and I know it won't be permanent so I saw no real risk.

As I learn more I'll share more.

[northeastguy]

Great information here Joe.... Thanks. I think we are all looking forward to seeing those pics.

Can you supply us with a list of what the ink is made of?

[Jotronic]

Great information here Joe.... Thanks. I think we are all looking forward to seeing those pics.

Can you supply us with a list of what the ink is made of?

I think it's made of asbestos and diesel exhaust I jest. I'm looking into it but I know it has soy and isopropyl alchohol but I don't recall the complete list. As I learn you will learn.

[topcat]

If somebody wants to get a tattoo on their head it’s safe and it gives them a better quality of life then that is a good thing. As long as everyone involved stands 100% behind both the quality and most importantly the safety. I think we can all agree that this industry has a long history of leaving patients to fend for themselves when things do not turn out as expected. A good example would be all the patients that had a plucking procedure because that was the last best thing. Those patients now have to travel that repair road alone as the cheerleaders are not there for them.

So all I’m saying is slow down this is being promoted full blast and I’m not sure why. Desperation will cause many to be caught up in the hype. It would be prudent to just sit back and watch.

[Stevie R]

@Jotonic, thanks for the posts man, have you seen anyone fill in a scar with Milena and keep it at a 0 or 1 guard? My plan is to hit up 2 or 3 FUE sessions to fill in my scar which is very small and go on with my life never worrying about my hair or anything and I may never take my hair down to a 1 or 0 but I may, the whole point for me is to kinda get it out of my head completely which I may be able to do with just FUE as I have seen before. However, I have seen a couple cases of the scar being invisible with a combined approach, I bet one day very soon Milena and other SMP experts will have a permanent ink that is much better than what is out there today. But have you seen any? Do you know of any Italian forums where this is being talked about? Any thing else to say to dudes with scars? Thanks again Jo.

[sp8rky]

If you do 2 or 3 fue sessions into the scars, that would probably finish you off mate

[Stevie R]

Hey Sparky, ya I figured it would bro, but I was just thinking that a mixture can have a great effect if I am not completely pleased....yet I have seen near perfect results from FUE after just one session with a scar twice my size after only 10 months so I should be fine but if it ain't it would be nice to know something else is out there. How is your scar Sparky? I can't wait to see the redness go down man I bet you will be rocking a 0 guard no problem I was very impressed with it thus far, any new updates?

[sp8rky]

No new updates thus far, as im only about 6 weeks post op, and on the last session, they only put 40 or so into the right hand side where they was a patch where it didnt grow that well.
The rest if the scar is quite hard to find now, but i wouldnt be able to go a number 0, as that butcher Dr Greaves gave me stitch marks!

[Jotronic]

If somebody wants to get a tattoo on their head it’s safe and it gives them a better quality of life then that is a good thing. As long as everyone involved stands 100% behind both the quality and most importantly the safety. I think we can all agree that this industry has a long history of leaving patients to fend for themselves when things do not turn out as expected. A good example would be all the patients that had a plucking procedure because that was the last best thing. Those patients now have to travel that repair road alone as the cheerleaders are not there for them.

So all I’m saying is slow down this is being promoted full blast and I’m not sure why. Desperation will cause many to be caught up in the hype. It would be prudent to just sit back and watch.

Like I said, this is not tattoo. It is about as much a tattoo as FUE is punch grafting.

@Jotonic, thanks for the posts man, have you seen anyone fill in a scar with Milena and keep it at a 0 or 1 guard? My plan is to hit up 2 or 3 FUE sessions to fill in my scar which is very small and go on with my life never worrying about my hair or anything and I may never take my hair down to a 1 or 0 but I may, the whole point for me is to kinda get it out of my head completely which I may be able to do with just FUE as I have seen before. However, I have seen a couple cases of the scar being invisible with a combined approach, I bet one day very soon Milena and other SMP experts will have a permanent ink that is much better than what is out there today. But have you seen any? Do you know of any Italian forums where this is being talked about? Any thing else to say to dudes with scars? Thanks again Jo.

SteverR,

I don't recall seeing any 0 or #1 guard results on patient that had donor scars. I did see some from other clinics and they didn't look so hot. One guy's scar was a blue streak. Not pretty. I think your plan of concealing your scar surgically first is ideal because if you did SMP first you may damage the result with multiple hundreds of incisions into it. Let it heal first, turn white again after your final FUE, then have a test SMP session to see how it takes. Scar tissue is not the same for everyone and some scar tissue takes to SMP better than others.

[Stevie R]

@ Jotonic that makes since, I have a long wait anyway but I am not sure if I'm sold...What do you mean a blue streak? SMP leaves blue streaks...? Anyway thanks for the response bro and ya I think the FUE will get me set, but others can be helped by me asking questions and who knows maybe I may benefit from some SMP in the end

@ Sparky, that sounds great that you can't find it man, I am happy for ya. However, have you done fraxel? Or researched it? I would do a session or 2 or 4 or more as I have heard of guys knocking out stitch marks completely....However, I have been warned that fractional co2 laser may go so deep to hurt the hair possible removing it. I have been told by multiple fraxel ladies that fraxel can take the scar down 30% in width....Also there is a guy called LM on the Hairloss Help forum website that has made is scar near invisible with no FUE,Fraxel, tatto, SMP but just the derma roller...In about 3 years I will derma roll the shit out of my scar and make even less noticeable (after multiple FUEs and fraxel treatments of course).

@Spex, I hear what you are saying that BHT has lower growth in a scar, however when you told me on the phone that I may only get 10 percent growth, well I have never heard of that, especially on small scars as the blood flows in from around the scar (which is another benefit of the small scar). I expect I will have around 70 to 80 percent beard growth (yet I have heard many time of higher percentages and since my scar is small I may indeed be one) I will do a small portion of body hair and expect 50 percent growth. I have never heard of anyone saying 10 percent growth was what to expect, perhaps if your next door neighbor did the surgery we would expect that low of yield. I can respect the fact that SMP can be another tool in other guys arsenal but let's not be hasty and write FUE off. Can you post a link where someone got this low of yield and who the doc was as I am sure that would play a huge role in it. I have to say I have never seen it and I think I have seen every single FUE into scar case with pics on the internet. Also, when do you plan on cutting down to a grade 1 again, no rush or anything but I was just wondering as might it be better if they hit it up again at a 1 grade as it may blend better if you kno what I mean?


Thanks fellas.

[sp8rky]

I would consider fraxel, but not at the expense of losing hair.

[sp8rky]

There is another thing, I made this big mistake getting an HT and very much regret it, but I don't want to make it a life long ambition trying to fix it, I'd go mad and my wife would probably leave me.
Wouldn't say that I would never fue the scar again though, might do that late next year, will cut down short at some point to see what it looks like now.

[Stevie R]

No fraxel wont affect hair from what I have heard and seen, fractional co2 would possibly though. Look into dude do a consultation, there is virtually no down time from it and my first 4 sessions will be like 100 dollars a piece, also the derma roller is cheap and easy from what I have read and heard from other more experaicned dudes on these forums. I hear ya on the life long thing, but I want it out of my mind completely even though I have had good luck in the middle of the bad... wouldn't hurt to check out the fraxel as it only stays red for a couple days supposedly.