Steve R., I appreciate your service. Just try to take a look at your posts objectively and youíll see that youíre very harsh and confrontational, without any real provocation, which doesnít make your points any more valid. Topcat on the other hand might not be who he presents himself to be. He's very quick to say that everyone who disagrees with him is connected to the ďindustryĒ, which is very strange if you ask me. Think about it.
Originally Posted by Stevie R
Having a different opinion is just that a different opinion sorry you donít agree with it. I have been posting for 15 years now and prospective patients want all the information not just some of it which the industry is well known for. Prospective patients donít come to the forums to discourage others from posting information that might be useful where they can use their own judgment that would be very odd.
The good majority should stay far away from the psychos that operate in this industry until they fully understand what is going on and how it operates.
I suggest just shaving your head in the mean time. Read the forums daily and watch these guys go to work.
@Delphi, I am aware that my posts may seem confrontational to someone who is trying to promote a certain product like Spex and Jotonic are I don't know what your angle is or if you have one. Also, if my post was harsh or hostile then what was yours towards me? I don't follow what you mean about topcat, he seems like a good dude to me that gets attacked like I get attacked by guys like Jotonic and Spex for questioning them and whether their methods work or not. Also I would hardly say it is confrontational when I agree with Spex and others that SMP is the best "tattoo" out there and Milena is one of the best and I commended Spex for his attempt to bring it to light (you would know this if you read my post closely and didn't cherry pick my "hostile" comments). Also, I don't think we should be concerned over particulars such as which guy seems hostile and which one seems "nice" or whatever what we should be worried about is facts. For instance Spex made a statement that beard hair or body hair into a scar could get ten percent yield, but never showed any evidence for it, I wonder why? Also, you said many have been hurt by beard hairs into scars, where is the evidence? I have not seen significant scarring under the chin area, so please show me. I'm not on here to make friends or play grab ass I am here to brainstorm the best solutions for myself and others to fix their scar issue, nothing more. Also I am not offended by for instance Kiwi's ridiculous deuce bag posts towards me lol and when he acted normal and contributed to the conversation I tried to share my knowledge and examples I saw that could best help him. Personally I think you, Spex and Jotonic all have very thin skin and think it is fortunate that those two have easy jobs in air conditioned rooms. That being said I hope Spex and Milena help out many with their scars and make a fortune as I believe Spex should get paid for it but also think he should be realistic and not make silly claims such as 10 percent into a scar which were to me obviously misleading in order for me to look harder at SMP.
I haven't had the chance to hash through this entire thread. But to try and get it back on track, I will say I have seen Spex's scar up close, in person, as well as two other Beauty Medical consumers. In addition, I had the procedure done as did my brother. Each case was unique, and imo, each had a very positive, natural result.
Are there other options for dealing with a scar? Most certainly. After having 5 HTs though, at this point I would opt for a 30-minute SMP session over more surgery. This approach is what would make the most sense for me.
Regarding the safety and permanence of this procedure, from what I understand the pigments Milena uses are non-toxic (living in NYC I am more concerned over the air I breath) and they are injected just .5mm in. She does not use blues or greens either.
I have been on these forums a long time, and have been involved in many online squabbles. I fully understand the emotion involved with hairloss, and I do get that people are burned all the time by inferior doctors and the-next-big-thing products/procedures (I was one of them).
That being said, Spex and Jotronic are employed by two of the top HT clinics in the world. They have a vast array of knowledge, and are what I would consider "good guys" of this industry. They would not just jump in willie nilly on the SMP bandwagon, and I'm sure the surgeons they rep would not want them to either. It's one of the only reasons I offered my own head up to Milena.
If there are any other questions I can help answer, I'll do my best, and I will continue to update with more pics of my own results. I must say that I am very excited about this SMP as it has freed me from using Dermatch and really makes my HT work complete.
Kiwi they are posted here.....
Originally Posted by Kiwi
Hairthere happy to hear it has worked out for you. Speaking with other patients who use concealers the topic of the ingredients and any effect it has on our health as always been a topic of concern. But we also realize itís a choice between two evils. Injecting the same substance which would be these oxides under the skin doesnít sit well with me as it is taking it one step further. This is just my own personal opinion I nor anyone else should be called asshole or dickhead because we donít agree and judging by your own post Iím sure you would agree.
First, thank you for your service. My father was a paratrooper in the big war (served in the 82nd and the 101st) as a combat engineer then served in Korea and Vietnam. He served for 23 years till he retired as a Colonel. I always take time to thank anyone I find out to be in the service, or a veteran of the service, when possible. Btw, my handle is Jotronic with an R. Not Jotonic. I'm not a beverage, lol!
To begin with, I'd like to get one thing straight. You have not "exposed" me for anything, not in the least. I am already exposed through my own doing as I have posted close to 500 images of myself and the surgeries I've been through over the past ten years, many photos taken as I went through said surgeries, and I've put out about a dozen videos showing my procedures and results as well as for the purpose of answering specific questions. I was the first person on the web to do this and much of this was done before I even worked for Hasson & Wong and it was done in close to real time as I revealed my progress as it unfolded. I might even still have more photos online than anyone.
Hey, if you want me to really discuss this, then so be it. Your own post above is an example of "double talk" when you mention "many" are facts but then you say, in the same sentence, that you don't know how many there are. How can you know it is a fact that "many" have been harmed by Acell and "many" are helped by beard hair if you then say you don't know how many? Ten? One hundred? One thousand? How many is not really the point, I'm just pointing out that you're the one with the double talk, not me. I'll remind you that I agreed and referenced cases of Acell causing worse scars and I even laid out how I never saw it as a miracle to begin with. Are you reading the same thread as me cause it is odd how you either did not see this or you chose to ignore it. I'll repeat, Acell is not a good treatment to consider for donor scars. Did I have hope it would be? Absolutely. Did I ever say it was? Nope, not once.
It is a fact that many have been helped by beard hair, many have been harmed by ACELL, how many? IDK, but the scars I have seen are grousome and I would never do it, but you acted like it never happens and your double talk on this issue is pathetic, we all know what topcat said rings of truth.
No, I understood your meaning to be what you said it was. You asked why I "act as if this industry helps more than it hurts...." By asking this question, logically you think the opposite since you are calling me out for what you think is my position on the matter. Here is a surprise for you. Are you sitting down for this? You might be correct! The problem is, I don't know for sure either way but here is my logic. Of the few thousand known clinics in the world how many are actually doing quality work on a consistent and regular basis? How many are not causing horrendous scarring (both strip and yes FUE)? How many are not placing grafts that look like a rat's nest once they've grown in? Did you know that there are still clinics using nylon hair implants? Did you know that there are still "clinics" that operate in residential basements??? Did you know that there are still clinics performing plug surgery??? So again, you might be right about the field of hair restoration causing more harm than good.
Also I never said more are hurt than helped, but IDK, it seems to me quite a few are hurt, then they have to pay for it again to get fixed and I think you and anyone else understood my meaning.
Let's revisit what I said. I said that what he as claiming was fact was actually an opinion. I never said he was wrong. Did I? There is a big difference. I was not addressing the validity of his claims. I was addressing the validity of how his claims are classified. That was the joke. If you do not understand this then I can't help you any further.
However, Spex could not show me one case of a scar getting 10 percent yield or less, and you cannot prove that topcat is wrong in his assessment of facts.
What you fail to see, sir, is that I have not once said anything negative about your goals and simply offered my opinion on your methods. None of the methods or techniques I may have mentioned have anything to do with the clinic I work for nor do I receive benefit from any which way you decide to take your journey. I'm kind of confused why you are now resorting to calling me names like "parrot" and calling me out for, well, nothing really because there isn't any substance to your rant against me. All I've really done is agree with you, ask questions about your approach to your own issue and offered suggestions.
Parrots like you trick guys into an HT or act as if the industry does no wrong, I thought you were genuine until you posted that response to topcat, and I know you are gonna say "I was joking" but I don't believe you nor do I have any more need of you or Spex's opinion as you are just parrots to me.
Btw, you still have not answered my questions.
What am I supporting against you and topcat? I have had debates with Topcat before but I have never really had any debates with you save for a few small issues in this thread but I certainly have not been "fighting" you and hardly at every corner. I have only seen you post a few other times on another forum but we have never had any interaction whatsoever. So, with this in mind, how can you ask this question if the question itself is not accurate?
If you say you have "no dog in this fight" why support SPEX and any new thing in the industry at every corner against me and topcat?
To conclude, I've not been fighting you on anything here and I haven't really been disagreeing with anyone here either. I think it is really about YOU misunderstanding me. You said in an earlier post that you think I have thin skin but I don't think you can really point to any responses of mine that would support your opinion (or is it a fact, see what I did there? lol!). Anyway, good luck with that beard hair into your scar. I mean that. And good luck with your fraxel and anything else you are going to try. I really do hope you can reach your goals. I do have a question about the fraxel. Are you not afraid of the fraxel laser causing any damage to your existing hair or is this not the type of laser that can cause damage to hair? I'm not an expert on lasers and scars. I'm just an expert on lasers and how they DON'T cause hair to regrow
Have a good weekend!
@Jotronic, Well first off this back and forth you said this I said that is tiring and a waste of time. But I will explain, when you question someone ans say that isn't a fact when everyone knows it is a fact in many cases then it makes me and others question, joking or not. Also, I don't give opinions unless I have researched a topic a hell of a lot, so why would you say "well beard hair will stand out in my opinion" when you have never seen a scar as small as mine filled with beard hair? This makes me question your intentions, and ya I've seen your mug all over the internet but that has little to do with these posts, SMP, scar grafting, laser or anything else. It seems to me your extremely protective of Spex, the hair transplant industry, and any HT doc on these forums, that is my opinion from my observations, I'm blunt about it and that may be a flaw of mine and I may be wrong but nonetheless what I think. I think that is either naive, blind, or crooked as many have been screwed over by good docs, and again no one has showed me where beard hair has hurt and I don't care about anything but fixing my scars and others so I can care less about ACELL, I just know it hurts some by making there scar wider. Also it isn't double talk to say that many have been helped by beard and many have been hurt by ACELL, 1 is to many for ACELL and if there is a risk with beard I would like to see with evidence that is causes visual scarring under the chin, you again are the double talker as both of us knew what I meant. Also your last post I think you confused yourself and the readers which again works in the advantage to anyone wanting a strip or any other type of HT as you act as the scar is no big deal when in fact it is to many as you age and loose more hair and that is obvious to many of us, and no I won't classify many...figure it out. Maybe you don't have thin skin, that might just be Spex and maybe your legit and come across like a HT industry parrot on the forums IDK. I have done much research on fraxel and it doesn't hurt the surrounding hair, however, fractional CO2 lasers can as it is a more powerful laser and goes deeper. Why don't you know more about lasers? Isn't HT crap your job? Shouldn't you know this stuff like the back of your hand? This is another disturbing thing about you reps on here as first you haven't seen any small scar repairs with beard, you know little to nothing about lasers, and you are obviously not to in touch with the fact that this industry has hurt so many. This would be the equivilant of a dude not being able to do un-jam his weapon in the middle of a firefight. Many have told me (3 fraxel ladies at different clinics) that it can reduce the scar 25-35 percent and significantly change the color, I hope the color changes mostly but have seen excellent results on a few occasions and will proabably do 4 sessions within a few months a month apart.
Because over the course of more than one post I was talking about the chances of beard hair being potentially less natural looking than scalp hair. I mean, that does make sense, doesn't it? I didn't just come out and say that beard hair would look unnatural without any qualifiers. I also said that you strike me as one that is very detail oriented. Would you say that I am right about this? If so, then it is logical to present and discuss the options. I thought that was what the forums were about. And I have seen beard hair in donor scars. I've also seen pubic hair in crowns and leg hairs for eyebrows. I have not seen any hairs in a 1mm donor scar because people with 1mm donor scars usually do not give them a second thought THUS I deduced that you are a very detail oriented individual.
Also, I don't give opinions unless I have researched a topic a hell of a lot, so why would you say "well beard hair will stand out in my opinion" when you have never seen a scar as small as mine filled with beard hair?
Yes, and this makes sense since I do not work for a company that does any of the procedures you are looking into and I'm not so much of an idiot that I would even pretend that you are interested in a scar revision. Question my intentions? Really? Really?? What possible motive could I have for suggesting options that my clinic does not perform?
This makes me question your intentions
Your "observations" are apparently on the inside of your eyelids because your claims in the above quote are just plain wrong. I spoke up about your bullying of Spex, nothing more. You also cannot point to a single incident of me defending any doctors much less defending the entire industry without any caveats.
It seems to me your extremely protective of Spex, the hair transplant industry, and any HT doc on these forums, that is my opinion from my observations, I'm blunt about it and that may be a flaw of mine and I may be wrong but nonetheless what I think.
Stevie, don't you think you should take some time to say what you mean instead of leaving it up to others to try and interpret what you meant? Wouldn't that make this a lot easier? I think it would but that's just me. What are you talking about with scarring under the chin? I haven't even breathed a word of this. I've not seen any issues with beard/chin scarring so where are you hearing/reading this?
Also it isn't double talk to say that many have been helped by beard and many have been hurt by ACELL, 1 is to many for ACELL and if there is a risk with beard I would like to see with evidence that is causes visual scarring under the chin, you again are the double talker as both of us knew what I meant.
I can easily agree that you have done much MUCH more research on Fraxel and CO2 Fraxel than I ever have. Laser really has nothing to do with the hair transplant process so it is not part of the "HT crap" that I need to understand. I'll read up though so I can keep up with your posts.
I have done much research on fraxel and it doesn't hurt the surrounding hair, however, fractional CO2 lasers can as it is a more powerful laser and goes deeper. Why don't you know more about lasers? Isn't HT crap your job? Shouldn't you know this stuff like the back of your hand?
Would you mind explaining to me why I should have a lot of experience, or any for that matter, with beard hair into 1mm donor scars? My clinic does not perform beard hair transplantation. If people come to us for scar repair it is through scar revision. We do not have people with 1mm donor scars asking us for repair or revision. If they ask for beard hair or body hair we inform them we do not perform the procedure and I will usually suggest they contact someone that specializes in this procedure. Do you honestly believe that if anyone had beard hair performed successfully into their small scars that they would even be in our clinic? It stands to reason that if someone has a small scar and they want to have it filled with beard hair that they are essentially done with HT surgery or at least strip surgery. Would you agree with this logic?
This is another disturbing thing about you reps on here as first you haven't seen any small scar repairs with beard, you know little to nothing about lasers, and you are obviously not to in touch with the fact that this industry has hurt so many.
I'm starting to realize that you are not arguing or debating with me but rather you are arguing with yourself. You are saying I have said this and said that when in truth I have not said these things at all. Didn't I just say that you very well could be correct in how the HT field could have hurt more than it has helped? The difference is that I laid out the rationale for my opinion, you have done nothing of the sort.
What gets me about this discussion, StevieR, is that I have not really done or said anything that has been a 180 degree polar opposite of what you have done or said. You just keep putting words out there and saying I said these things.
Btw, you still have not answered my question, now being asked for the third time...
Where have I fought you and Topcat at every corner?
If you say you have "no dog in this fight" why support SPEX and any new thing in the industry at every corner against me and topcat?
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