The scalp inflammation/itchy/burning/tingling thread

[Dench57]

Hey Ziggy.

I would say I'm at rock bottom but things are only gonna get worse. Everyday the pain and itching is constant and unbearable. Even though it's been about 7 months, the magnitude of what's happening to me still hasn't really sunk in. What started as a relatively harmless (I thought) attempt to slow down my NW0.5 has turned into a living nightmare. I feel like it's a bad dream that I'm going to wake up from tomorrow. I fantasize about my life before taking that pill, how carefree and happy I was.

I hear what you're saying about not being able to hide the recession like you used to. Thats happened to me in the last few weeks - I used to be able to cover my temple recession completely so any normal person wouldn't know I was receding. In the space of 3 months that whole area is now completely see-through and looks awful. When you look in the mirror and see how much of an impact hairloss has on your appearance, and knowing it will never improve, only get worse - thats when it hits home and despair just takes over.

I've even made a post on the infamous propeciahelp.com to see if anyone's had similar persistent sides. Man that site is the most depressing shit I've ever read and makes me regret taking Propecia even more. One guy with reflex-hyper said his endocrine system "crashed" about 6 months after stopping Fin and he got PFS. I can't even allow myself to think thats gonna happen, its too scary. One other guy on Regrowth.com had reflex-hyper for over 5 months just from 2 weeks on Propecia. I took it for 3 months! Everybody is different though...I just have to try and stay positive and hope that I'll be a lucky one who recovers in a few months.

Have you considered trying RU? Thats the only real alternative to Fin/Dut/Minox I can see and has a different mechanism to 5AR inhibitors. Bottom line is androgens in my scalp are decimating my hair follicles - surely RU would help to stop that. But there's the problem - surely its just gonna cause your body to produce the same reflex-hyper reaction? It's such a gamble. Despite mixed reviews I'd definitely be trying it if it weren't for the fact I'm going travelling for over a year in November. There's no point in using it just for a few months. Then again if I'm still dealing with this by November I won't be able to go travelling.

Anyways, I'm seeing a private dermatologist next Wednesday (£300 just for a consultation) and will post an update then. I'm not particularly hopeful.

[Ziggyz123]

Dench, sorry to hear you're still having all of that inflammation . I did read some things about RU and how people have quit finasteride and maintained/regrew with RU. When this all started for me, the inflammation was sooooo terrible man. The weirder thing is, I developed like itchy bumps and then my hair like exploded out of this one area. The thing that really bothers me is that my left temple and hairline is so thinned out that my part somehow changed. Hairs that used to be brushed across my scalp now fall to the sides because there isn't enough hair to hold them up anymore.

I would try RU, but I can't use propylene glycol as a vehicle I don't think. When this shed happened and inflammation, I was still using minox, but had to quit because it was irritating me even worse. I just don't know what to do anymore either man! I really need a hormone panel, but then again what is that even going to prove? If they say, "oh you need something stronger" than I get dut and have an even stronger reflex down the road.

Another odd thing is I keep shedding hair and some have like dried sebum on it??? Strange.. Do you know if there are any remade RU solutions available? And let me know what the dermatologist thinks man because mine had no clue.

[Dench57]

Same thing with me man, started with inflammation in one spot in particular, above my "parting" on right temple, has thinned out more than anywhere else. But like I said, there was no redness, flakiness, yellowy sebum buildup, bumpiness. No physicals signs of inflammation whatsoever. If you're getting bumps/dried sebum it sounds like a more straightforward inflammation, possibly seborrheic dermatitis, demodex, fungal infection or something else. Which should be treatable with medicated shampoo (coal tar, zinc, piroctone olamine, the list is endless) or hydrocortisone or something. Would definitely see a dermatologist if you are seeing signs of inflammation though, I'm no expert. I wish I was seeing physical signs of inflammation, ANYTHING would be better than just DHT straight up raping my follicles.

Yeah you can buy it premixed. I'm sure there are other vehicles available apart from PG but you'd have to ask in the big RU thread. I'm seriously tempted to try it because it looks like it works, and in theory should stop DHT binding to my receptors and thus stop the scalp itch/pain. But there's just way too many threads of people reporting all kinds of side effects, from the usual Fin-like sides, to bloodshot eyes, muscle spasms, heart palpitations etc which is just really scary considering it is an experimental drug not approved for human use. Though it's only topical it obviously still gets absorbed systemically. As with everything though I would probably be willing to try as long as there is no persistent/permanent sides...something people told me would never happen with Fin, and look how I ended up.

I just hate sitting here feeling so powerless to stop it. Topical spiro/fluridil/keto shampoo are doing nothing to reduce the scalp itch/pain after 6 weeks.

I don't know what your hormone levels will show, I reckon they will all be normal. Dutasteride is DEFINITELY not what you want, its just a stronger version of Fin and will cause an even stronger adverse effect.

[Dench57]

Maybe this going for broke 2.5mg a day is wrong but I'm clutching at straws here

I really wouldn't advise taking higher doses of Finasteride. As far as I'm aware you're just increasing your chances of sides without any extra effect on your hair. Because of the "flat" dose-response curve of Finasteride 0.25mg about 90% as effective as 1.25mg a day, but with less severity of sides of course. There's loads of information/studies about this online.

I just read this quote from the RU thread which hit home pretty hard for me :

"you do have more to loose though. RU is without doubt, like finasteride, a long term commitment. all the literature suggests you can maintain on RU, even re-grow but that once you stop androgen receptors multiply in the scalp/follicle and become more sensitive.

ive seen this first hand. a friend used RU for 2 months - thought it wasnt working came off and bang his hairloss accelerated way quicker than it was because he'd been applying an AA to his scalp that played around with the mapping etc of the receptors in his scalp

its like fin - you've got to be on it full time and be prepared that if it doesn't work for you its going to really f things up and accelerate HL"

Using Fin permanently accelerated my MPB. If I don't use RU permanently it will just do the same. I'm at my wit's end here to be honest. Been spending so much time on hairloss forums the past year and the brutal truth is if Fin or Dut don't work for you, you are screwed. Even the extreme cost, time and hassle of a hair transplant, even if it is successful, will never restore anywhere near natural density and look. How is this lack of treatment possible in 2015?!

[mic28]

Dropping dose back down

Hey Dench,

So after upping my dose to 2.5mg daily for just over 2 weeks, I noticed a very oily scalp throughout the day. After reading up a bit more, I decided to drop down to 1.25mg EOD, therefore trying the opposite effect and trying to taper off slowly.
It's been a week or so of 1.25mg EOD and I've noticed a reduction in oil, however getting a lot of flakes off my scalp. Still very itchy at the mo but il keep this dose for the next month or so see how it pans out.

[Dench57]

Hey Dench,

So after upping my dose to 2.5mg daily for just over 2 weeks, I noticed a very oily scalp throughout the day. After reading up a bit more, I decided to drop down to 1.25mg EOD, therefore trying the opposite effect and trying to taper off slowly.
It's been a week or so of 1.25mg EOD and I've noticed a reduction in oil, however getting a lot of flakes off my scalp. Still very itchy at the mo but il keep this dose for the next month or so see how it pans out.

Good luck with that. Definitely no need to take more than 1.25mg.

Scalp pain was off the charts today. Starting to sink it that this is probably permanent and I've basically kick-started permanent MPB into overdrive by trying Fin. FML

[Ziggyz123]

Hmm, that's good that you raised the dosage and found that out. I read that some have gotten really good results with a low dosage so hopefully that will be the case with you.

Dench, did you ever try lowering your dosage? Or did you just quit immediately. When my scalp was at the point that I couldn't take anymore, I started tapering off. I did .5mg every two days for a week and then .25 for another week. Then, I gave in and went back to 1.25, but ever since then the pain isn't "as" bad. I've been debating going down on dosage lately, but I have to have the pharmacy call my doctor again and all that to get approval because they're idiots.

I wish I knew a way to stop it man.. Have you tried taking a HUGE dosage of vitamin D? I read a story somewhere that the person got scalp pain under control by take a lot of vitamin d. Idk anymore. My pain comes and goes, but today its prevalent which sucks. I've also read that for some it just takes time for the body to re adjust. I asked another derm about our situations yesterday and he said he couldn't explain the scalp pain lol. Such a joke.

[mic28]

I don't think il really know how I get on until I give it a few weeks at this dosage. Already I'm seeing a reduction in oil but scalp still is itchy. I'm trying not to scratch as that's only going to exasperate things and I notice a lot more fall when that happens. I would take 0.5mg every day rather than 1.25 mg every other day but I can't cut my pill down much further.
Went to the dermatologist and she wants to hit it with a load of things at once. Small dose oral minoxidil to try hair re growth, with tacrolimus and topical steroids for the inflammation. Not sure I want to get started on the minoxidil orally but il definitely give the tacrolimus a go for the itching.

[Ziggyz123]

Mic28, what's up man. I would definitely try the oral minox. I read that it is WAYYYYYY more beneficial than topical, but sides obviously. Try that and see if you respond though. I was thinking about trying to take that actually, but I don't know where I'd even get it at. I had to quit minox when this inflammation started with me . I started developing things like light rashes from Cologne, a rash under my armpit from deodorant, and a stye in my eye. My doc though it was the minoxidil causing my irritated scalp and what not.

What percentage did your doc recommend for the oral minoxidil? Also sounds like he/she kind of knows a thing or two about Hairloss since most don't.

[mic28]

Hey Ziggy,

She's only starting me on 1mg due to blood pressure issues that can arise if too high a dose is given. From what I've read though the minimum amount anyone takes for hairloss is 5mg so don't know what effect it will have. Might be all I need though to kickstart what I have lost diffusely in the past few months which has been quit significant. Plus better to start off small see how I react to it.
I'm actually getting mine made up at a compound pharmacy specifically as they don't sell it here. Expensive enough tho. Sure il see how it goes they make a longer term decision on it.

[Ziggyz123]

Yeah 1mg is pretty low. I hope you do good with it dude and then you're able to up the dosage. I think it's actually formulated in 2.5mg,5,&10mg. Keep me updated with it. May I ask where you're from that you found such a willing derm? Lol mine all suck

[Dench57]

Dench, did you ever try lowering your dosage? Or did you just quit immediately. When my scalp was at the point that I couldn't take anymore, I started tapering off. I did .5mg every two days for a week and then .25 for another week. Then, I gave in and went back to 1.25, but ever since then the pain isn't "as" bad. I've been debating going down on dosage lately, but I have to have the pharmacy call my doctor again and all that to get approval because they're idiots.

I wish I knew a way to stop it man.. Have you tried taking a HUGE dosage of vitamin D? I read a story somewhere that the person got scalp pain under control by take a lot of vitamin d. Idk anymore. My pain comes and goes, but today its prevalent which sucks. I've also read that for some it just takes time for the body to re adjust. I asked another derm about our situations yesterday and he said he couldn't explain the scalp pain lol. Such a joke.

Hey Zig. Yeah I was 2 months on .5mg and then tapered down to 0.25mg for a month before coming off. Should have gone EOD though. I think I also screwed up by not tapering ON to the drug, as I think I shocked my system since I felt this reflex-hyper within 4 weeks of starting. Imagine if I'd followed Merck's instructions and taken 1mg straight away.

I haven't heard anything about Vitamin D, I'll look into it though thanks. Honestly there's just so many threads with one person saying "X stopped my scalp itch" but then 3 other people saying "X made my hair worse". It's such a gamble. I read through a big thread about people with oily scalp itch, who failed on Fin, taking low doses of Accutane and keeping their hair, completely cured of itch/pain and removing all excess oil and sebum. Got my hopes up. Then I saw countless other threads saying Accutane made all their hair fall out. Then you've got stuff like Spiro which MIGHT work but comes with horrific sides. I just wish it would resolve itself naturally

Currently I'm taking Vitamin B complex, Curcumin, Selenium, (all because I read they degrade or block ARs) along with Fluridil and topical Spiro. Not helping. I don't think I have anything that will be helped by anti-inflammatories, I've just kickstarted super-aggressive MPB which is what the scalp itch/burn represents. I'm considering trying a Keto mousse/topical and applying it to my hairline, just to see if it lessens the itch. Everyone with scalp itch says Nizoral helped them but it hasn't helped me.

That sucks about your derm man, that is honestly pathetic. I hope mine will at least have some answers for me (for £300 they better had) and something that can lessen the itch/pain. The amount I've researched this over the past 6 months though makes me have such low expectations that I can be treated.

I don't think il really know how I get on until I give it a few weeks at this dosage. Already I'm seeing a reduction in oil but scalp still is itchy. I'm trying not to scratch as that's only going to exasperate things and I notice a lot more fall when that happens. I would take 0.5mg every day rather than 1.25 mg every other day but I can't cut my pill down much further.
Went to the dermatologist and she wants to hit it with a load of things at once. Small dose oral minoxidil to try hair re growth, with tacrolimus and topical steroids for the inflammation. Not sure I want to get started on the minoxidil orally but il definitely give the tacrolimus a go for the itching.

Wow I'm surprised your derm suggested using oral minox, that is some heavy shit for something as "cosmetic" as hairloss. Can cause life-threatening heart problems if I remember right, and surely any hair gained from the oral minox will fall out when you stop using it, same as topical minox. Did you ever use topical minox Mic? At least she's taking it seriously and trying to be proactive though.

[mic28]

I'm in Australia.

Yeah I tried topical minoxidil a while ago and thought it made things worse but perhaps I didn't give it a good enough shot. I've been considering buying 5% minoxidil with azaelic acid.

[Ziggyz123]

Dench, one more thing! If your scalp is still oily high doses of vitamin A is supposed to pretty much cure that. I think a guy on *** was taking an extreme dose. Pretty sure it was Fred the Belgian. But yeah, my scalp isn't so oily. When I took fin I didn't taper on either. I accidentally took 5mg the first day too haha. But yeA, I hit every single side throughout my go with this drug. I also feel like inconsistent dosages with wuartering my pill is somehow contributing to this a bit. Also, I was on dr reddys and I read terrible stories of people losing all that they have gained on it. Idk though. We'll get this figured out man. I think about your case every day and wonder my scalp inflammation has calmed down. It just doesn't make sense and drives me insane to think that this can happen again to me .

How long have you been off of it? Not sure if you said that already. And I know this is going to be annoying, but I use emu oil at night from time to time and it does sort of soothe my scalp. I'm surprised though that fluridil didn't work as well as spiro. You need to get a hormone panel because your testosterone is most definitely out of control. If you could level it, maybe this would go away. Let me know about that derm you see man, good luck!

[Dench57]

My hair gets oilier much quicker than before Fin. My scalp hurts even after I've just washed my hair and its completely dry and oil free though. I also saw this on the American Dermatologists website:

"Vitamin A: Too much vitamin A can cause hair loss. People can get too much of this vitamin through vitamin supplements or medicines. Once the body stops getting too much vitamin A, normal hair growth resumes."

Just so frustrating, so many treatments seem to do more harm than good. I wish everyday that I'd never got involved in this, its so depressing just constantly trawling through the forums looking for an answer. I might try emu oil but its such a mess isn't it? And considering I already apply topical spiro and fluridil it might not be practical. Worth a try though I guess. That would just be masking the problem though, I wish I could eliminate the cause and "cure" it but I'm afraid that might never happen, at least not for years, by which time all my hair will be gone.

I don't think uneven quartering of your pill can have much of an effect at all

I've been off it for 5 months now. I just can't imagine it ever stopping, not until its burnt all my hair away. I can't remember what it was like to not be able to "feel" your hair, to not be in pain and feel that itching/burning all day. The area above my right temple is so thin, within 3 months I won't be able to cover it at all and will just have a huge diffuse thinned patch there. I had literally no diffuse thinning before Fin, my hair was SO thick. The regret is just so hard to deal with. I feel like the unluckiest guy on the planet, tried a hairloss pill with a full head of hair and now its permanently destroying my hair. Punished for my vanity I guess.

I already had a blood test, it showed high testosterone (29 nmol/l, normal range is 5-28 nmol/l) but thats still fairly normal, certainly doesn't explain this scalp pain. I imagine my DHT is really high, but even if my levels are normal, it's my androgen receptors sensitivity that makes the androgens do x10 more damage than they did before Fin.