Propecia/Fin SHould be scrapped for good

[Mentalist]

I don't think there will be in my lifetime either, it just seems to drag on and on and on and on. I really hope I'm wrong.

[25 going on 65]

Do you honestly believe that these new treatments are going to be availible in the often "5-10 years" timescale and will it be the big cure ?

I don't think we will cure male-pattern baldness in the next decade, or if we do, it will more probably be in the form of immunizing existing follicles from miniaturization. Which is awesome for people who don't start visibly balding until then, but for guys who already start showing significant loss, no I don't expect a treatment on its own to be able to completely restore and maintain a fully-dense NW1. (I really hope I'm wrong like all of us do.)
However I definitely expect new viable treatments in that time frame, and I expect some to be available in less than 10 years. Some companies have already managed to safely grow/thicken hair on human scalps to a cosmetically appreciable extent, without using the treatments currently on the market. That's a breakthrough in itself. Combined with existing treatments, this will give us good new options (for example, one possibility would be transplants to restore the hairline/temples and Histogen to thicken up the native hair behind the grafts....though again no one knows for sure what will and won't be viable)
I definitely expect minoxidil to become obsolete as a growth stimulator, unless it still has some use as an adjunct treatment.
As for if these treatments will allow us to stop taking DHT suppressants, I don't know. In an ideal world I would rather stop taking hormone meds, but for now they are all I've got.

[UK_]

Thing is, ive been waiting for "the cure" as far back as the 80's and I cant remember a time where there were so many companies actually in human trials working on a treatment and showing hair growth.

I remember minoxidil in powder form or something and propecia was still in clinical trials, but nothing like Histogen, Aderans, Allergan, Replicel, Follica etc etc.

Anyone agree/disagree??????

[25 going on 65]

Thing is, ive been waiting for "the cure" as far back as the 80's and I cant remember a time where there were so many companies actually in human trials working on a treatment and showing hair growth.

I remember minoxidil in powder form or something and propecia was still in clinical trials, but nothing like Histogen, Aderans, Allergan, Replicel, Follica etc etc.

Anyone agree/disagree??????

Don't know whether or not these will provide full-blown cures but in general I agree. There have been many false promises over the decades but a lot of it was based on flimsy evidence or none at all.
Now we can step back at look at the concrete studies, trials, etc. going on. we have made serious strides just in the last 5-6 years, not only in understanding pattern baldness but learning how to treat it. The PGD2 link was discovered just within the last few years right? And through various different methods we have multiple companies actually growing/thickening hair on human beings (less than a decade ago this was unheard of, except in limited form through drugs that have been on the market since the 80s and mid 90s). Where one fails, others could succeed, or the treatments could well compliment each other.
I mean it wasn't long ago we were jumping for joy that we managed to grow some crappy-looking fuzz on a mouse....now there are real people growing cosmetically viable hairs in these clinical trials. We all want more results faster, but this is so much more promising a time than what people were dealing with in the Clinton/Blair years it's just not comparable IMO

[mlao]

Thing is, ive been waiting for "the cure" as far back as the 80's and I cant remember a time where there were so many companies actually in human trials working on a treatment and showing hair growth.

I remember minoxidil in powder form or something and propecia was still in clinical trials, but nothing like Histogen, Aderans, Allergan, Replicel, Follica etc etc.

Anyone agree/disagree??????

I agree even the most conservative HT doctors agree that a better therapy will be available within the next 5 to 10 years and that was two years ago.

[Tracy C]

I'll never really get my head around why people take these pills.

Because it works for the majority and the majority of those who use it do not experience the possible side effects. It's that simple.

It is not at all likely that it would be scrapped at all - much less scrapped for good. Some birth control pills and anti-depressants have much more serious side effect profiles. They haven't been scrapped.

[Mentalist]

Because it works for the majority and the majority of those who use it do not experience the possible side effects. It's that simple.

It is not at all likely that it would be scrapped at all - much less scrapped for good. Some birth control pills and anti-depressants have much more serious side effect profiles. They haven't been scrapped.

good point you made about birth control pills and anti-depressants but I think these fin pills they are only starting to find discoveries about side effects and this one is major and just because it works for the minority doesn't make it right if you discover you have hair loss and you are aware that there is a chance you might get the side effects there is no guarentee that you might not experience them if you start taking these and alot of people would not like to take them because of the dangers what can happen and nobody can possibly know if it can happen to them unless they try them and I don't think thats right alot of people have taken the pills and regretted it because of the side effects and I think there is a better chance of them scrapping the pills altogether than scrapping anti-depressant and control pills.

[Tracy C]

...just because it works for the minority...

You got that wrong. I don't know if you did that on purpose or not - but you did. Finasteride works for the majority of men who use it. The majority, not the minority. That is reality. Most men who use Finasteride do not experience the possible side effects. That is also reality, whether you like it or not, it is what it is. If Finasteride where taken off the market, the number of men who would be very upset would greatly outnumber the number of men who would be cheering.

Birth control is an excellent example of this kind of thing. Birth control pills are doing far more damage than Finasteride. The possible sexual side effects of some birth control pills are much more serious and far more frequent than that of Finasteride, yet they are still on the market - and there is little chance if any that they will ever be taken off the market.

Fear mongering does far more harm than good. If you do not want to use Finasteride, don't use it.

[UK_]

Because it works for the majority and the majority of those who use it do not experience the possible side effects. It's that simple.

It is not at all likely that it would be scrapped at all - much less scrapped for good. Some birth control pills and anti-depressants have much more serious side effect profiles. They haven't been scrapped.

The majority, not the minority. That is reality. Most men who use Finasteride do not experience the possible side effects. That is also reality, whether you like it or not, it is what it is.

"Doctors have described taking Propecia as being on par with people playing Russian roulette with their sex drives."

"In a group of 54 otherwise healthy former users of finasteride who developed persistent sexual side effects that lasted for at least 3 months, 96% continued to experience these effects when reassessed 9–16 months (mean 14 months) later, raising the possibility of permanent effects."


"There is a solid and growing body of basic science evidence that finasteride reduces the concentrations of several neuroactive steroids that play a role in neurogenesis and neuronal survival."


"To explain the long-term neurological effects of finasteride, it is possible that reduced concentrations of neuroactive steroids are affecting the plasticity of neuronal architecture in regions of the brain responsible for sexual function."


"Another recently published study found that rats treated with finasteride for 4 weeks had a 26% reduction in the weight of their corpora cavernosa as compared with a control group [27]. This finding is consistent with the reports of genital shrinkage reported by some of the human subjects in this study."


"The most volunteered changes related to the urogenital system in terms of semen quality and decreased ejaculate volume, reduction in penis size, penile curvature or reduced sensation, fewer spontaneous erections, decreased testicular size, testicular pain, and prostatitis. Many subjects also noted changes to their mental abilities, sleeping patterns, and/or depressive symptoms. Many subjects reported a “disconnection” between the mental and physical aspects of sexual function."


"The typical story of men with persistent sexual and other side effects is that they unsuccessfully seek help from various providers in multiple medical specialties. It is important for physicians to acknowledge with their patients the current limitations in medical knowledge, particularly as it relates to neuroscience. There is no known blood or imaging test to study or measure neuroactive steroids or their metabolites in different areas of the brain associated with sexual function."


"Further valuable research could determine who would be susceptible to finasteride through genetic studies of polymorphisms of 5a reductase and the androgen receptor. Further research with validated instruments is needed to study the nonsexual persistent side effects associated with finasteride."


"When the Food and Drug Administration approved the hair-growth drug Propecia in 1997, a number of doctors and medical researchers voiced their strong concerns about the drug’s severe side effects. One outspoken critic was well-known hair-restoration expert L. Lee Bosley who publicly denounced Propecia as a "serious health concern" in the wake of its FDA approval—only to allow his doctors to enthusiastically recommend the medication to patients a few years later.


On Dec. 24, 1997, Bosley Medical—which bills itself as "The World's Most Experienced Hair Restoration Experts" and today boasts some 70 offices in the U.S., Canada, Mexico and China—issued a news release via paid-distribution service Business Wire. Headlined "Supposed Miracle Baldness Cure Creates Serious Health Concerns Among Hair Restoration Professionals," that release (still housed on LexisNexis) quoted Dr. Bosley as saying of Propecia:


"The FDA has just approved a drug that has the capability to impair male sexual performance, creating the inability to achieve an erection [and] decreases libido... The potential side effects, especially the long-term side effects of the drug, should be the overriding concerns to both the users and the manufacturer."


Dr. Bosley also said of Propecia (generic name: finasteride) that "the results attained during the clinical trials would immediately be dismissed as unacceptable by our standards." All of which is enormously ironic, say Bosley patients, particularly the assertion about Propecia being unacceptable by the standards of Dr. Bosley. For as shortly as three years after Dr. Bosley issued his stern warning of Propecia, Bosley Medical doctors began prescribing the risky drug.


Within a few months of starting on Propecia, [Julian] Parks says he developed excruciating pain in one testicle, which lasted two years. A few years later, while still on the drug—though at half-dose—he says he developed Peyronie's disease, a painful disorder characterized by the growth of fibrous scar tissue inside the penis, which often causes curvature of the erect organ. Parks, who says he previously had no major health concerns, finally quit the drug in 2006 after suffering other side effects. To this day, most of them have yet to resolve themselves.


Seven weeks after starting on finasteride, the previously healthy [Thomas] Schultz says he became extremely depressed and was beset by panic attacks. That while witnessing his genitals shrink to tiny proportions and grow completely numb. And though he quit the drug two weeks later, Schultz says his health rapidly worsened.


Among his side effects—which continue to afflict him to this day—have been loss of libido, impotence, breast enlargement, prostate pain, muscle aches, cognitive dysfunction, anhedonia and severe insomnia, as well as Peyronie's disease. Meanwhile, Schultz says he has consulted some of L.A.'s top urologists, neurologists and endocrinologists, all of whom have told him there's nothing they can do to help. When Schultz discovered that Dr. Bosley had issued a press release in 1997 warning of Propecia's dangers, he said, "I grew sick to my stomach at his betrayal of innocent, unsuspecting people like myself."


Known clinically as Post-Finasteride Syndrome, the condition that has ravaged Shultz, Parks and thousands like them around the globe is marked by sexual, neurological, hormonal and physical side effects—including impotence, Peyronie's disease, testosterone deficiency and depression—that do not resolve themselves after quitting Propecia."

[Mentalist]

You got that wrong. I don't know if you did that on purpose or not - but you did. Finasteride works for the majority of men who use it. The majority, not the minority. That is reality. Most men who use Finasteride do not experience the possible side effects. That is also reality, whether you like it or not, it is what it is. If Finasteride where taken off the market, the number of men who would be very upset would greatly outnumber the number of men who would be cheering.

Birth control is an excellent example of this kind of thing. Birth control pills are doing far more damage than Finasteride. The possible sexual side effects of some birth control pills are much more serious and far more frequent than that of Finasteride, yet they are still on the market - and there is little chance if any that they will ever be taken off the market.

Fear mongering does far more harm than good. If you do not want to use Finasteride, don't use it.

Obviously I got it wrong I meant to say "just because it works for the majority doesn't make it right" and it doesn't it should be safe for everyone and it isn't it's wrecking peoples lives either way so wheather you like it or not it still has those damaging side effects and you are so selfish I think to say that it would "If Finasteride where taken off the market, the number of men who would be very upset would greatly outnumber the number of men who would be cheering." the ones that took it gambled and are still gambling heavy by continueto using these pills and just because they have been taking them for a year or so doesn't mean the side effects can still not come because they can and they may be permanant side effects even if they discontinue the use of these pills it's really not worth it especially as you will probably lose your hair from your genes anyway.