Addressing root cause of male pattern baldness: a well known approach?

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  • Maradona
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2011
    • 830

    #16
    I agree people are not reading your posts carefully and only because propecia blocks DHT = more hair.

    In my opinion it goes like this:

    Our case, the people in their 20s and early 30s losing their hair. Our hair wasn't just programmed to fall out at this age, there was a trigger. My family history all of them lost their or at least seem noticeable in their late 40s and there are NONE absolutely nobody who looked like me in his 20s.

    We get it, the way it works is something like this:
    DHT--->binds to AR in progenitor cells---> follicular stem cells stop signaling derma papilla cells to replicate and produce more hair ----> hair is proportional to the number of these cells = miniaturized hair.

    Derma papilla hairs die altogether = no hair.

    We get it we are genetically susceptible to this process, we get that it is a gene trait.

    But why the **** should we express this gene so young? especially in some of our cases.

    Answer is simple excess in "something" reached or went over a certain threshold in our body making our follicles start the degenerative process.

    Now, if you reduce the DHT, it's too late, the follicles have already started the degenerative process but you will make the progress much slower if you reduce DHT. You need to go back in time, the way it was BEFORE MPB was triggered, get your hormones and chemical substances in your body reach the same balance you had before MPB kicked in and that's how you will "prolong" your gene from expressing itself altogether.

    You will always have DHT we get that, we had DHT before in our teens RAGING through the rooftop and most of us didn't start balding back then...

    So. Listen to this guy, think outside the box for once because if you keep sticking to what is known NOW there will never be progress.

    Plus nobody gives a RAT ASS about MPB so progress will be much slower than ZERO, it WILL BE NEGATIVE.

    Comment

    • Baldy6
      Junior Member
      • Feb 2012
      • 19

      #17
      I agree let's give these guys a chance I mean at least they are trying to come up with something instead of just moaning and whinnying about hairloss. Don't get me wrong I also complain about it but also have a more open mind to other thoughts and theories. You never know one of these guys might have the "holy grail" we've been looking for. As of right now I dont trust big pharma and the governments bullshit so an independent source is a blessing.

      Comment

      • 2020
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2012
        • 1527

        #18
        Originally posted by Aston

        To have high DHT, a man has to have relatively low progesterone and cortisol. The former can bind to the androgen in place of DHT, the second down-regulates DHT production. (A lot of forums are full of people desperate to find an androgen receptor blocker, while our body already has its own agonist! It's like using a hammer to fix a leaky faucet.)
        With low progesterone and cortisol, thyroid hormones are downregulated as well and the body is "blocked" in a low metabolic state. It then uses estrogen to fight against excess DHT in the body. But in tissues which produce their own DHT, the estrogen can't combat DHT effectively. Scalp and prostate are the most prominent such tissues. Hence why finasteride treats both balding men and men with prostate hyperplasia. The cure to male pattern baldness is the recovery of a higher metabolic rate, which requires a hormonal therapy.


        For old men this is caused by a natural reduction of hormonal values, this also explains the "paradox" of DHT being lower in older men. DHT is lower, but prog and cortisol are much lower as well, so it's still an excess. For younger men, the cause seems to be always a high glycemix index diet in their youth, which is exactly what the USDA recommends and is exactly what is turning the world into a hell of obesity, diabetes and coronary disease. (Which in turn makes a lot of money for big pharma!)

        right.... except that when they tested follicles from both non-balding people and balding people in a petri dish, follicle from a balding person shrunk when it was exposed to DHT while the follicle from a non-balding person had no response.

        Your response to DHT is programmed into your follicles. You simply can't change it. Genetics is the cause of MPB, not your hormone levels...

        Comment

        • Aston
          Member
          • Apr 2012
          • 82

          #19
          Balding people were not bald once. Many men go bald at 50. While you may have the genes, you don't want them to be activated before time (or ever), which is what is occurring to a lot of us.
          The androgen receptors in the scalp won't get enough DHT to shrink if your progesterone and cortisol are high.

          Comment

          • 2020
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2012
            • 1527

            #20
            Originally posted by Aston
            Balding people were not bald once. Many men go bald at 50. While you may have the genes, you don't want them to be activated before time (or ever), which is what is occurring to a lot of us.
            The androgen receptors in the scalp won't get enough DHT to shrink if your progesterone and cortisol are high.
            it's amazing how for the vast majority of people, their genetics get "activated" right around the same time as the person whose genes you inherited....

            Comment

            • Tracy C
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2011
              • 3125

              #21
              Originally posted by Aston
              You didn't read my short post carefully, i fear.
              You didn't read mine carefully.

              Comment

              • Aston
                Member
                • Apr 2012
                • 82

                #22
                Originally posted by 2020
                it's amazing how for the vast majority of people, their genetics get "activated" right around the same time as the person whose genes you inherited....
                Firstly, that is false as it has been proven a combination of genes is necessary for MPB, and secondly even if that were true, it still doesn't change the hormonal mechanism behind it or the fact that what you inherit is a predisposition which can be prevented.
                The only way to debunk this view is to actually prove that even in the presence of high serum progesterone and cortisol levels, MPB doesn't stop. I am however fairly confident that most MPB sufferers in their twenties (and probably older) could solve their MPB and possible future health complications due to this condition by following the therapy i pasted my first post. Anyone having trouble finding the correct site for more information can PM me.

                Comment

                • Aston
                  Member
                  • Apr 2012
                  • 82

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Tracy C
                  You didn't read mine carefully.
                  Ummm... You need to get back to the books. A multitude of doctors and researches have concluded and confirmed multiple times that follicular sensitivity to the damaging effects of DHT is the main cause of hereditary hair loss in both men and women.
                  My sentence was: "MPB isn't even caused by DHT, as much as a lack of a DHT's agonist"
                  The logical meaning of this type of sentence structure is: "The cause of MPB is more a lack of DHT's antagonist than the excess of DHT itself"

                  (You may know that "cause" is something attributed to the earliest event allowing a second event to occur. I should perhaps have been more accurate in calling it "root cause", but english isn't my first language.)

                  As the logic of my sentence doesn't contradict your subsequent post, it means your failure to understand my sentence is what made you compose such post. I didn't want to believe you aren't smart enough to understand it, so i presumed you didn't read it properly.

                  There are other types of hair loss though. Maybe you have been confusing information on those other types of hair loss as being the same as and/or applying to hereditary hair loss (MPB/FPB).
                  It is also logically safe to assume someone discussing the hormonal mechanisms of DHT excess in the organism can distinguish between MPB and other forms of baldness. The title of the article i link to also contains "Male Pattern Baldness", so i don't see what would make you suppose that, other than a lack of rigor in reading the thread.

                  Comment

                  • UK_
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2011
                    • 2744

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Tracy C
                    Ummm... You need to get back to the books. A multitude of doctors and researches have concluded and confirmed multiple times that follicular sensitivity to the damaging effects of DHT is the main cause of hereditary hair loss in both men and women. There are other types of hair loss though. Maybe you have been confusing information on those other types of hair loss as being the same as and/or applying to hereditary hair loss (MPB/FPB).
                    His argument was more about the fact that situations in which blood flow is not restricted creates an environment [high oxygen] in which more testosterone is converted to estradiol as opposed to DHT, thus mitigating the negative effects of DHT on the hair follicle, this may be one explanation as to why minoxidil works.

                    Comment

                    • bob13
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2012
                      • 125

                      #25
                      no wonder they industry makes so much off humans.

                      Comment

                      • 2020
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2012
                        • 1527

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Aston
                        The only way to debunk this view is to actually prove that even in the presence of high serum progesterone and cortisol levels, MPB doesn't stop.
                        do it then. buy topical progesterone and cortisol "lotions" and test it out

                        Comment

                        • Aston
                          Member
                          • Apr 2012
                          • 82

                          #27
                          It's in progress.
                          I went to an endocrinologist and he agreed with me. The next week or so i will do a few hormonal tests. I have ordered transdermal pregnenolone and "managed to obtain" some tirosint (T4) for free. If the lab tests return the hormonal profile i expect, i will begin and post results.

                          Comment

                          • gutted
                            Senior Member
                            • Jan 2011
                            • 1398

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Aston
                            It's in progress.
                            I went to an endocrinologist and he agreed with me. The next week or so i will do a few hormonal tests. I have ordered transdermal pregnenolone and "managed to obtain" some tirosint (T4) for free. If the lab tests return the hormonal profile i expect, i will begin and post results.
                            there really is no point in trying to pursuade these people....they are brainwashed by one and only one theory, which has been fed to them for the past few decades, perhaps they should do some thinking for themselves some time soon.

                            Comment

                            • 2020
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2012
                              • 1527

                              #29
                              Originally posted by gutted
                              there really is no point in trying to pursuade these people....they are brainwashed by one and only one theory, which has been fed to them for the past few decades, perhaps they should do some thinking for themselves some time soon.
                              who are you talking about?

                              $100 bucks Aston will either disappear or claim "maintenance".... lol I've been off treatments and eating junk food at my parents house for the past two months and I'm still "maintaining". Don't mean nothing

                              Comment

                              • Tracy C
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2011
                                • 3125

                                #30
                                Originally posted by gutted
                                there really is no point in trying to pursuade these people....they are brainwashed...
                                That is 110% false.

                                Aston,

                                You do not need to re-invent the wheel - but if that is what makes you happy...

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