Does finasteride block dht or cause the body to produce less dht?

[chrisis]

Finasteride has a half life of I believe it was 8 hours. So 1mg is .5mg after 8 hours and .5mg would be .25mg after 8 hours etc etc.

If that's the case, it means after 3 months I should be fine, unless something else is going on. Any ideas on what the "something else" is? Then we can figure out how to resolve it.

[sausage]

Well apparently some people believe side effects are in peoples heads.....but to be honest I have never heard so much tosh in all my life.

[oOKawaiiOo]

Finasteride basically sticks itself in between 5-AR and Testosterone. Finasteride has binding receptacles that 5-AR Type II binds to so it effectively prohibits a large portion of the conversion of T to DHT.

Finasteride has a half life of I believe it was 8 hours. So 1mg is .5mg after 8 hours and .5mg would be .25mg after 8 hours etc etc.

Finally some biological mechanism. I always thought fin was a competitive inhibitor to 5-AR (enzyme) that catalyzes testosterone to DHT. So by increasing the substrate levels [concentration], it would have a better chance in binding to the enzyme and preventing further increase in DHT levels.

What is an competitive inhibitor? Binds substrate that competes for the binding at the active site of the enzyme where the reaction occurs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competitive_inhibition

But from what your saying, it looks like an uncompetitive inhibitor which binds to the enzyme and testosterone. Meaning you slow down the production of DHT but not as effective as competitive inhibitors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncompetitive_inhibitor

Most of the drugs out there are competitive inhibitors, and are more effective in preventing reactions from occuring than uncompetitive.

http://www.drugs.com/pro/propecia.html

The link above claims fin is a competitive inhibitor.....so it doesnt bind to testosterone at all. Just the 5-AR.

I also have a B.S in Biological Sciences.

[the_charger]

Isnt the FDA medication approval process a pretty thorough way of determining if a medication is fit for public consumption or not? even if it isnt, there have been a ton of studies done on finasteride after the fact that all show it is tolerated well and I don’t think any permanent or severe side effects resulted from those... the fact that all this talk of severe side effects is so recently compared to how long the medication has been on the market really shows how very rare this is!

of course after a drug is released and millions of people start taking it, you will start to see very rare side effects that weren’t found initially. This isn’t unique to finasteride and it happens with literally any prescription medication out there. Merck and the FDA aren’t backtracking like you are saying, if anything it shows they continue to monitor adverse side effects to watch for these rare events and updates their labels to warn of these changes. Just like how they noticed in extremely rare cases it can cause male breast cancer or prostate cancer or depression.

finasteride isn’t perfect, I don’t even think its near perfect. but it is a very effective treatment for hair loss but you risk some very rare symptoms if you take it. On the other side of the coin, there isn’t much else to treat hair loss right now, and hair loss itself can be extremely hard on some people, so anyone thinking about taking it really needs to weigh out the pro’s and con’s.

everyone seems to make propecia out to be some sort of horrible devil drug, but has anyone ever looked at antidepressants? sexual side effects from antidepressants effect somewhere around 20% of all users, and this is very well documented. Not to mention about another dozens of common side effects. Just to name a few: nausea, vomiting, headache, fatigue, dizziness, insomnia, diarrhea, weight loss, weight gain, mania, tremors, cardiovascular problems, severe withdrawal symptoms, and even sexual dysfunction that can last years after stopping the treatment. And MILLIONS of people take these treatments, usually without a second thought. Whats worse is kids are getting treated with antidepressants more and more often. I think I read that over 50 million people have taken or are currently taking antidepressants! Its weird to me that

So yeah, finasteride isn’t perfect, and it can cause very rare and severe symptoms. But when you put it into perspective and compare it to other drugs like antidepressants, which are one of the most commonly prescribed types of medications, finasteride isn’t really that bad. Unfortunately this doesn’t help the people that ended up with bad side effects.. Hopefully we can get some better studies that give us a full understanding of whats happening and how these people can be treated.

[gmonasco]

Also, the onus is on the drug pusher to prove its safety, not the patient or victim.

But since finasteride did pass the required safety protocols of those clinical trials, the onus is really now upon those who claim it is unsafe to prove their case.

[chrisis]

everyone seems to make propecia out to be some sort of horrible devil drug, but has anyone ever looked at antidepressants?

That's because for some of us it has been a horrible devil drug!

And if, as you suggest, "everyone" is suggesting so, then perhaps it's time to start questioning the validity and integrity of the studies! There have actually been very few reliable trials. The biggest ones were either funded by Merck - no potential bias there then! And another was comprised entirely of Japanese men - which can at most only document how safe the drug is for Japanese men!

Let the men on these forums speak the truth. Let the FDA and Merck's revised positions and label-changing antics speak the truth. Let the fact that Propecia is designed to literally **** with your testosterone levels speak for itself.

It's time to face facts and for people to talk about this drug responsibly and safely.

No more "it's in your head".

No more "it only affects 2%".

I call bullshit on both of those statements.

[chrisis]

But since finasteride did pass the required safety protocols of those clinical trials, the onus is really now upon those who claim it is unsafe to prove their case.

Never heard of Accutane?

In 2009, Roche decided to pull Accutane off the US market after juries had awarded millions of dollars in damages to former Accutane users over inflammatory bowel disease claims. Among others, actor James Marshall sued Roche for $11 million in damages over Accutane-related disease that resulted in removal of his colon.

Accutane was cleared by the FDA, until people started killing themselves and reporting depression.

I got this from elsewhere and I can't improve on the wording so I quote:

"Don't take something as gospel just because "science" tested it and the FDA approved it. Scientists can lie just like everyone else. The FDA isn't some superhuman infallible agency. Biotechnology is INCREDIBLY competitive and a huge portion of companies are living month to month and/or barely making it on angel funding. The pressure to prove efficacy and publish good results can be incredible. I admire your faith and I do think the FDA does a good job. But blind faith will kill you."

[chrisis]

Also the very fact that the FDA and Merck are in "reverse" position on side effects should be enough to cast doubt on those initial trials that passed the FDA.

Would the drug be approved if the potential for permanent side effects was known then? Unfortunately we find ourselves in a position where there is too much money involved and there are too many reputations at stake.

[the_charger]

That's because for some of us it has been a horrible devil drug!

I think people with peanut allergies have the same viewpoint about peanuts. again its really horrible that anyone has to deal with bad side effects.. I can totally understand your viewpoint here, but rare reactions to happen on all medications.

And if, as you suggest, "everyone" is suggesting so, then perhaps it's time to start questioning the validity and integrity of the studies! There have actually been very few reliable trials. The biggest ones were either funded by Merck - no potential bias there then! And another was comprised entirely of Japanese men - which can at most only document how safe the drug is for Japanese men!

Why does it matter that they are japanese men? if you are saying that severe side effects are race specific?

I saw this mentioned in the big thread with spencer and Dr.Wasserbauer, but the biggest and long term study of finasteride for like 18,000 men (half on placebo) for 7 years was done by a university and not funded by Merck. The only thing I saw that Merck funded was providing Proscar tablets for the patients to take during the study. Whats wrong with this one then?

Let the men on these forums speak the truth. Let the FDA and Merck's revised positions and label-changing antics speak the truth. Let the fact that Propecia is designed to literally **** with your testosterone levels speak for itself.

It's time to face facts and for people to talk about this drug responsibly and safely.

No more "it's in your head".

No more "it only affects 2%".

I call bullshit on both of those statements.

You are saying to listen to guys on forums that are basing their opinion on their own bad experience instead of these studies that involve thousands of men in a controlled environment? How does propecia literally **** with your testosterone levels? doesnt your testosterone levels rise when you take finasteride? If my testosterone levels are so ****ed right now, how is it possible I havent had any side effects? I have made almost 20lbs in gains at the gym in the last year. How could be this possible with "****ed" testosterone levels?

you can call bullshit all you want, but you havent really provided a good argument for any of this. you are telling everyone to ignore studies (proof) and instead listen to all the guys on forums that have bad experiences, and then you say in the same post that we should talk "responsibly"?

I’m sorry dude but your reality is a little skewed.

[chrisis]

I think people with peanut allergies have the same viewpoint about peanuts. again its really horrible that anyone has to deal with bad side effects.. I can totally understand your viewpoint here, but rare reactions to happen on all medications.

Your thinking is so flawed that I don't know where to begin, but I'll attempt to dissect your points one by one.

You simply cannot compare a hypersensitive reaction to nuts, to a drug that is prescribed to intentionally alter the biochemistry of the male hormonal system. Peanuts aren't a medication for a start, peanut allergic reactions affect between 0.4-0.6% of the population, and sufferers can avoid symptoms by simply avoiding peanuts. Let's hope that stops the peanut analogy right there!

Why does it matter that they are japanese men? if you are saying that severe side effects are race specific?

As someone who publicly defends Propecia and is thereby charged with demonstrating that it's safe, can you rule out that side effects aren't race specific? I'm sure you know for instance that many people of Asian descent can't tolerate alcohol because of a genetic mutation that other races don't have.

I saw this mentioned in the big thread with spencer and Dr.Wasserbauer, but the biggest and long term study of finasteride for like 18,000 men (half on placebo) for 7 years was done by a university and not funded by Merck. The only thing I saw that Merck funded was providing Proscar tablets for the patients to take during the study. Whats wrong with this one then?

Source the trial.

You are saying to listen to guys on forums that are basing their opinion on their own bad experience instead of these studies that involve thousands of men in a controlled environment?

Yes. If Merck and the FDA are backtracking on their warnings, then there's clearly something that concerns them - no doubt for legal and financial reasons. As I mentioned earlier, it wouldn't be the first time that a drug has been withdrawn because the original trials that cleared the FDA were proven to be unreliable. Reasons why that happen are numerous! It's naive to think that the FDA are infallible and that Merck aren't operating solely with regard to commercial interest.

How does propecia literally **** with your testosterone levels? doesnt your testosterone levels rise when you take finasteride? If my testosterone levels are so ****ed right now, how is it possible I havent had any side effects? I have made almost 20lbs in gains at the gym in the last year. How could be this possible with "****ed" testosterone levels?

Where to begin with this? Literally sighing here. For a start, you're inferring that Propecia is totally safe because of your single, anecdotal, positive experience (thus far). Are we meant to be surprised at your account that it's safe?! It should be! Probability ought to be in your favour! The real question is how many people is the drug NOT safe for? Your positive experience tells us absolutely nothing of any value!!!

Next, it's got nothing to do with testosterone levels. The issue is DHT. DHT is what causes you to bald, and the interactions of DHT is what Propecia basically blocks.

"DHT has approximately three times greater affinity for androgen receptors than testosterone and has 15-30 times greater affinity than adrenal androgens."

DHT is a primary sex hormone involved in regulating libido is both men and women, so if there is no DHT in the body, your libido will be effected.