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  1. #1
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    Default My story - and my no-propecia plan of attack. Advice?

    Hey guys,
    Been lurking around this forum for the past week as I did research on the right regimen to treat my hair loss.

    Background is: I just turned 29. My dad is bald, older brother is bald, uncles are bald on both sides. For about the past 2 years, I have been vaguely aware of a general thinning in my hair, pretty much all around including the sides right about the ears, but have mostly convinced myself that it wasn't a problem yet...that it wasn't time to take action yet. That all came to an end fairly recently, over the past three months or so, as I have watched more of my scalp and temples show up in flash photos, strong bathroom lights, etc. Once I started doing research online about hairloss, I realized that I have been totally kidding myself for at least a year -- as I have definitely been on a road to hairloss for a while...and should have been acting long ago. But...still, it isn't too bad yet, so I feel that I still caught it with somewhat of a head start.

    I have been depressed and anxious for the past few weeks upon having this realization starting back at me in the mirror every time I went to take a look, just to make sure. I have read a lot across the past three weeks also--and I can finally have some confidence that I have put together a reasonable understanding of the problem, a healthy way to frame it, and a plan of attack.

    First caveat is--I have decided that the risks of propecia/proscar/finisteride or dutasteride/avodart on sexual health/functioning are unacceptable for me, so I am deciding to forego that route. I know that this puts me at a disadvantage in the battle, but as one poster put it...Propecia feels kind of like playing russian roulette with your sex life... So, instead...I decided to go with two of the "big 3" (i.e., minoxidil and ketoconazole) and then try to fill the anti-DHT gap that propecia normally fills with as much anecdotal, unproven herbal ish and dietary modifications and topical treatments as I can justify spending money on. I guess I'm more willing to gamble with my hair than my ability to have sex, even though there's probably a greater chance that i'll lose...

    With that, here's what I'm doing:

    Dimension I -- Stopping hair loss (by inhibiting DHT from being produced and from acting on the hair follicles)
    - 1% ketoconazole shampoo (with 2% saclicylic acid) every other day; this shampoo also contains a bunch of "potential" DHT-inhibitors like caffeine, saw palmetto, emu oil, etc.
    - 3 dietary supplement pills: saw palmetto extract, pygeum extract, and nettle root extract
    - specific diet modifications: increasing intake of foods which have potential anti-androgen effects, such as pumpkin seeds, green tea, soy/tofu (soy isoflavines), pecans & avocados (beta-Sitoserol)

    Dimension II -- Promoting hair growth
    - 5% minoxidil foam applied twice daily to crown and frontal areas
    - dietary supplement pill: biotin 5,000mcg

    In addition to these hair-restoration-specific measures, I am also taking a broader look at my health and nutrition and modifying my behavior/diet so as to boost immune system and overall functioning. I have to believe that by improving the body's overall ability to function and heal itself--and having faith that I am doing all in my power to fight my genetics (other than taking propecia) that I will succeed (at least for a while), that I am creating favorable conditions for my hair restoration efforts to take maximum effect. For the past three weeks, I've focused on significantly limiting drinking/smoking and meat/dairy/simple carbs (which are just generally bad for you) while increasing consumption of water, fruits, dark greens & vegetables, plant-based proteins. In addition, I am theorizing that aerobic exercise and efforts to increase quality of circulation are helpful too, especially in conjunction with activities to promote blood flow to the head/follicles (e.g., through scalp tissue massages from girlfriend...maybe this is where lasers actually do have some effect). These are all modifications that I'm committing to follow through on for my life...obviously for my overall health and quality of life, not just for my hair...but if it helps me keep my hair...then sweet.

    So -- that's where I am at right now, although I think that I may consider adding some more stuff to my regimen as I do more research. So -- I would really appreciate any feedback on my plan or other recommendations... especially from guys who are choosing to forego Propecia/Proscar/Finisteride and Dutasteride/Avodart (due to fear of side effects) and trying to compensate.

    Also, there are these products below that im still trying to understand...they all have random, partially verified effectiveness...which I am okay with assuming they have some chance of working without negative side effects. Anyone using/having success with these things (again, WITHOUT ALSO USING PROPECIA/FINISTERIDE IN CONJUNCTION...as that clearly screws up attribution)

    - Spironolactone (I read that it's mostly only used for women)
    - Crinagen
    - Revivogen
    - Folligen
    - Tricomin
    - Retin-A
    - Laser Therapy (this seems the most questionable in effectiveness, with a very pricey upfront cost...especially after listening to the interview segment on baldtruthtalk about laser therapy).

    Also, as I assume is the case with lots of other guys -- I've found that it's easiest to cope with my hairloss situation if I put some faith in science, and that stem cell research/etc will bring us a cure in 5 years or whatever...and so all I need to do is build a "hair management" bridge between today and 2017 without inflicting any irreperable damage in the mean time... and in the mean time, save up the $12k or whatever it's going to cost to get implants of hair clones in 2017 In addition to this, I have written out some other thoughts/beliefs/"ways of framing things" to make this all a lot less painful and traumatic...

  2. #2
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    Thanks the ideas. I didn't realize that caffeine was a potential DHT-inhibitor. I switched to decaf coffee a while back and have lost hair since...maybe a coincidence. Like you, I am attempting to grow hair, or at least keep what I have, without using Propecia. I am new at researching hair loss treatments and am just at the gathering information stage. Today I went out and bought walnuts, Brazil nuts, cashews, salmon, spinach and some other groceries that the AHLA says is good for us. I was thinking of using laser therapy. Where can I fiind this interview you were writing about? Sorry I could not help you, but maybe we can keep in contact as we are both trying to do the same thing.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by 80J View Post
    Also, there are these products below that im still trying to understand...

    - Spironolactone (I read that it's mostly only used for women)
    - Crinagen
    - Revivogen
    - Folligen
    - Tricomin
    - Retin-A
    - Laser Therapy (this seems the most questionable in effectiveness, with a very pricey upfront cost...especially after listening to the interview segment on baldtruthtalk about laser therapy).
    You are much more likely to experience sexual side effects from using Spironolactone than you are from using Finasteride. The chances of experiencing sexual side effects from using Finiasteride are very small. The chances of a male experiencing sexual side effects from using Spironolactone is ginormous. Get yourself to a doctor and learn the factual information.

    Crinagen, Revivogen, Folligen and Tricomen are all nothing more than over priced bottles of empty promises. The only thing these products do effectively is drain your wallet. These products are the most questionable, not laser therapy.

    About laser therapy. Low level laser therapy does work for some people but it doesn't work for everyone. Nothing does. I have been using the laser comb for over four years and it has helped to improve my hair. I have no problem recommending it to almost anyone who wants to try it. From what I can tell based on my own experience and those I personally know who are using it (or have used it) is that it works best for those with diffuse thinning. Not bald areas that have been bald for a long time. So if your hair loss is recent and/or diffuse, you probably will see improvement.

  4. #4
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    Hey mcjpgr -- yea, there is some very prelim evidence (and decent media coverage) suggesting that coffee has some effect on stopping hair loss and promoting growth (def has not been "proven" effective though). I'm a huge coffee drinker anyway and, it came included in my shampoo, so...not expecting anything, but...it's there, in case. Also going to make sure my intake of the foods you mentioned goes up too.

    The interview I mentioned is available through this link -- it's Spencer Kobren interviewing Dr. Alan Bauman (proponent of lasers/LLLT) and Dr. Alan Feller (critical of lasers/LLLT) to discuss the efficacy of low level light lasers being used for the treatment of hair loss.
    http://blog.americanhairloss.org/hai...-does-it-work/


    As Tracy C said, I feel like Laser Therapy works for some people, not for others. There is no real solid proof...but there's a lot of anecdotal evidence around to suggest there is something to it for some people. In my case, I have mostly diffuse thinning...so I guess I'm in the supposed sweet spot for lasers...so maybe I need to just give it a try...

    Tracy C -- thanks, I'm thinking that I'll save my money on all of that...i feel like there are very few anecdots of people having any success with those things...other than the laser, which I really want to work but still have yet to make the $500+ leap.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 80J View Post
    The interview I mentioned is available through this link -- it's Spencer Kobren interviewing Dr. Alan Bauman (proponent of lasers/LLLT) and Dr. Alan Feller (critical of lasers/LLLT) to discuss the efficacy of low level light lasers being used for the treatment of hair loss.
    http://blog.americanhairloss.org/hai...-does-it-work/.
    I had never seen that before. I did know that Dr. Feller was a very loud mouthed anti-advocate of low level laser therapy, but I could not accept his views because I already had first hand experience with using it. I already knew the laser comb was improving my hair, so Dr. Feller’s opinion on the matter meant absolutely nothing to me. In fact I thought he was a quack when I first read his opinion on low level laser therapy. Then I found out he actually has a good reputation and is in fact a great doctor. He just happens to be wrong about this. Just because he is a doctor, that does not mean he knows everything.

    As with Minoxidil and Finasteride, low level laser therapy has it's limitations. If you have bald patches that have been that way for many years, you will not see appreciable benefit from low level laser therapy in those areas. Then again, at that point you won't see appreciable benefit from Minoxidil or Finasteride in those areas either.

  6. #6
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    yea, I feel like the anecdotal evidence behind LLLT means that there is some effectiveness, in some people, but not at a broad enough level that it would necessarily receive widespread endorsement by doctors/the FDA. Many people, including Dr. Feller, need specific, repeatable, proven efficacy and safety beyond a reasonable doubt. But I believe that there is definitely this whole world of "potentially effective" treatments which range form the bull-ish snake oils up through the dieatary supplements/creams/shampoos/lasers all the way up to the actually FDA-approved and proven treatments. None of this gray area stuff will have conclusive evidence...because they by nature seem to have limited or inconsistent efficacy -- especially in isolation. I respect Dr. Feller's high standards, and want the FDA to use such high standards as well, in order to prevent marginally/inconsistently effective products in the gray area, where it belongs. But for someone like me who is against finisterid/dutasteride...working with a range of these "potentially effective" treatments together is kind of my last resort...and I can only hope and have faith that they will have some impact and buy me some time until HSC (or whatever other advanced therapy) gets approved and made available to people.

    I am getting more and more tempted to try lasers because my hair is a diffuse thinning/miniturization, as you describe, and I'm trying to find ways to strengthen/thicken it...and if i'm ever going to try it, the time is now. hmmm....

  7. #7
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    I tried to listen to that but I couldn't. Dr. Feller actually ticked me off – and I am a very hard person to tick off. I have been using the laser comb myself for over four years. I know what it does. I know that it improved my hair. I know that the improvement in my hair from the laser comb was cosmetically significant. Dr Feller is being very closed minded on this matter. For a doctor, such closed mindedness is a very serious flaw. Closed mindedness is a flaw that should not be ignored by prospective patients.

    The efficacy of low level laser therapy has now been proven many times over. The FDA has cleared the laser comb for the treatment of hair loss more than once. The first time was back in 2007. They did it again this past year.

    http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/medi...loss-in-women/

    Lexington has conducted multiple multi-center, double-blind placebo controlled studies to prove the safety and efficacy needed to gain FDA clearance.

  8. #8
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    Question

    I guess we can conclude that LLT works somewhat for some, and not for most. At least that is what I hear so far. It is mindboggling with all of this information that is out there. To my understanding, with the minimal research that I have done over the past few days, that the laser comb is FDA approved and works better than the Laser igrow helmet. Does anyone have ant experience with this LLT hat?

    Another treatment that is considered the best from Hair-Loss-Health.org is Provillus. Hair-Loss-Health.org claims that it comes from an FDA approved facility, but does not say that the product is FDA approved. Anyway it is there number one choice. Does anyone have any experience with Provillus?

    I used to use Rogaine years ago and it did work for a while. But when I quit more hair was shedding. I wonder if I should go back on Rogaine. Any thoughts? Thanks everyione for your imput. This is helping me determine what route I will take.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcjpgr View Post
    I guess we can conclude that LLT works somewhat for some, and not for most.
    You do not have enough information to make such a conclusion. As far as product satisfaction goes, no matter what the product, you will always hear or read more from those who are unhappy with a product than those who are happy with it. This is because those who are happy with a product are generally quiet. Those who are unhappy with a product generally share their feelings about it to anyone who might listen.



    Quote Originally Posted by mcjpgr View Post
    To my understanding, with the minimal research that I have done over the past few days, that the laser comb is FDA approved and works better than the Laser igrow helmet. Does anyone have ant experience with this LLT hat?
    The only home use low level laser device that is cleared by the FDA for the treatment of hair loss is the Hairmax laser comb from Lexington. No other home use low level laser device has FDA clearance.



    Quote Originally Posted by mcjpgr View Post
    Another treatment that is considered the best from Hair-Loss-Health.org is Provillus.

    Does anyone have any experience with Provillus?
    Provillus is nothing more than generic Minoxidil with other stuff added - and for a higher price than generic Minoxidil. The only ingredient in Provillus that is FDA approved is Minoxidil. Less expensive generic Minoxidil is just as effective.



    Quote Originally Posted by mcjpgr View Post
    I used to use Rogaine years ago and it did work for a while. But when I quit more hair was shedding. I wonder if I should go back on Rogaine. Any thoughts?
    Rogaine is the name brand version of Minoxidil. If Rogaine was working for you, Minoxidil was working for you. You needed to keep using it to maintain any benefit you got from using it.

  10. #10
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    Rogaine is the name brand version of Minoxidil. If Rogaine was working for you, Minoxidil was working for you. You needed to keep using it to maintain any benefit you got from using it.[/QUOTE]

    I saw that it was just for those who were 18-49. When I turned 50 and started to lose more hair, I believed that Minoxidil was done working for me. I understand that there is another product called Regain that is for adults 18-65. Is it too late for me to go back on Minoxidil using that product?

    Thanks so much for your help.

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