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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by amadeus View Post
    That’s very pricy. These doctors make a lot of money but one thing Spencer Kobren says all the time when people bring this up on his show is that people will pay what the market will bear. It’s the law of economics he says, and he’s right. It’s not fair, but I guess there are plenty of well off guys who will pay these outrageous prices. I’m not one of them and am hoping that this robot will eventually help to drive down the cost to maybe 5 dollars per graft like regular hair transplants. Spencer if you are reading this please discuss this on Friday’s live hair transplant show.
    Dr. Cole does seem a bit threatened by this robot, but I probably would feel the same way if I spent my life trying to improve hair transplants only to have the rug pulled out from under me by new technology. He’s only human like the rest of us. I still think he’s one of the best at FUE but so is Harris and now that I read that Dr. Bernstein is going to be using this robot, I can't help but think that it might me the best way to do FUE.
    I agree Dr. Cole has a right to feel threatened. And I 100% agree that Dr.Cole is probably tops in the industry. that is the reason i sought him out to begin with. I know he hears my type of story a million times a year. I guess I was hoping for a humane side instead of a clinical reply. However keeping your prices out of reach also opens the door for people to capitalize on more cost effective means. If Coles prices where within reason( and let's face it he sets the bar in this category) the odds are that this technology would not even be needed. So in the end who's fault is it??

  2. #12
    Senior Member PayDay's Avatar
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    Default Ziering Medical is Second Practice to Offer Revolutionary ARTAS System to Patients in

    The plot thickens

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/zie...tes-2011-10-17

    LOS ANGELES, Oct 17, 2011 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Ziering Medical Worldwide, a private practice dedicated exclusively to the specialty of hair restoration, today announced that they will be the first to bring the ground-breaking ARTAS(TM) System to Los Angeles. The ARTAS System is the first and only FDA cleared, physician controlled, interactive, computer assisted technology that allows safe and effective follicular unit extraction (FUE). The ARTAS System was developed in close collaboration with several leading hair restoration physicians to enable minimally invasive harvesting of hair follicles.

    "My entire practice is committed to helping patients with various degrees of hair loss and providing them with state-of-the-art options that are very safe and effective," commented Craig L. Ziering, D.O., FAOCD, Founder and Medical Director for Ziering Medical Worldwide. "The ARTAS System is an excellent solution to hair loss that is less invasive, offers a quicker recovery time and natural permanent results."

    "The ARTAS System adds to Ziering Medical's tradition of offering break-through treatments for hair loss for the benefit of patients," said Jim McCollum, President and Chief Executive Officer, Restoration Robotics, Inc. "We are proud to have him as the first adopter to the LA market."

    Hair Loss By The Numbers

    According to the International Society of Hair Restoration Surgery (ISHRS)(1), at least 35 million men in the United States are affected by male pattern baldness or androgenetic alopecia. By age 50, approximately 50% of men will experience some degree of appreciable hair loss. Approximately one in four men suffer from male pattern baldness (MPB), which has psychological, professional and social consequences for these patients, such as:

    -- 68% of men feel helpless about their hair loss

    -- 73% of balding men feel they are less attractive than they were when they had hair(2)

    -- 77% of balding men would feel very or somewhat concerned if they were in their 20s, just starting their career and experiencing hair loss(3)

    Hair restoration moves healthy, functioning follicles to the areas of the patient's scalp most impacted by baldness for more dramatic results. New hair continues to grow over the course of a full year, resulting in a gradual change in the patient's appearance over time. Hair restoration is the only permanent solution for hair loss.

    About Ziering Medical Worldwide

    Headquartered in Los Angeles, California, Ziering Medical Worldwide serves as the industry leader for hair restoration and transplants with numerous upscale surgery centers and consult destinations. Internationally recognized for his leadership and contributions to new innovations and studies in hair restoration, Dr. Ziering has practiced exclusively in his field for over 20 years. Dr. Ziering and his team of professionals have worked with world famous clientele and appeared on "Extreme Makeover," "The Today Show," and many cosmetic medicine programs. Learn more about Ziering Medical's continuing advancements in microsurgical technology as well as numerous non-surgical options for hair restoration at www.zieringmedical.com .

    About Restoration Robotics

    Restoration Robotics, Inc., a privately held medical device company, is dedicated to revolutionizing the field of hair transplantation by developing and commercializing its state-of-the-art image-guided ARTAS(TM) System. This interactive, computer assisted system uses image guided technology to enhance the quality of hair follicle harvesting for the benefit of physicians and their patients. To learn more about the ARTAS System and its unique technology, visit www.artashair.com . To learn more about hair loss and restoration, please visit the International Society of Hair Restoration Surgeons (ISHRS) at www.ishrs.org .

    (1) International Society of Hair Restoration Surgeons (ISHRS) website. http://www.ishrs.org/hair-loss/hair-loss-male.htm . Accessed April 11, 2011. (2) Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology (3) ISHRS 2006 Consumer Hair Loss Survey

  3. #13
    Senior Member gillenator's Avatar
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    How very thankful we all can be for the many improved strides in HT surgery methodology espcially now that we have so many options for patients today that let's face it, we did not have even 5 years ago. You both have your place in your own methodologies and instrumentation whether they be by robotic or not. It really comes down to each individual patient and his/her needs as defined by their goals.

    I am also seeing more and more repair patients regain some level of social independence freeing some of them of the psychological barriers from past HT surgery procedures. Let's not lose sight of that.

    That is what this is all about and let's rather be encouraged by the obvious improvements in robotic technology from Dr. Harris and others. I am seeing more and more IAHRS and ISHRS physicians adoting this robotic tooling in their own practices and even the more as we speak. I am especially encouraged by the range and total control over the robotic device as the seperate FU extractions are made. It's very similiar to the potential control in the robotic devices an urologist uses when various sized kidney stones are extracted. Stones as small as .5 mm with very precise movements. Obviously they also employ the use of a monitor so they can make any needed adjustments as they guide their instrument at and through the point of extraction.

    With time, and as Dr. Cole pointed out, more and more improvements will be made in the industry and hopefully the transection rate can be reduced to nearly zero! We are sincerely behind you Dr. Harris!

    Thank you again gentlemen for your passion.
    "Gillenator"
    Independent Patient Advocate
    more.hair@verizon.net

    NOTE: I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice nor are they the opinions of the following endorsing physicians: Dr. Bob True & Dr. Bob Dorin

  4. #14
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    can the ARTAS do body hair FUE's?

  5. #15
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    Most clinics don’t offer FUE because they simply do not have the necessary skill to offer it without damaging the patient. They also realize that they simple cannot make much profit spending their whole day working on one patient even if they had the skill. Of course not being able to offer FUE leaves them at a distinct disadvantage so I’m sure they are chomping at the bit.

    To suggest this robot is for the benefit of the patient is nonsense in my opinion. If my figures are correct more than $63M+ has been raised in attempt to bring this robot to market. These investors have one goal in mind at that is to realize a hefty return.

    Most patients that have had a FUE procedure or are familiar with it know that a 1mm punch is too large and usually ends up in visible scarring. How exactly does this benefit the patient? Are patients made aware that skilled doctors are using punches that are .75-.85 in size? Are patients made aware that a 1mm punch covers a square area that is 80% larger? Does that matter in the clinics opinion? This industry always seems to think it’s quite ethical to leave out information if the patient doesn’t ask.

    With the limited extraction area will overharvesting become of concern for clinics concerned only with numbers? The suggestion that FUE can be learned in 2-3 minutes I find to be absurd.

  6. #16
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    I’m all for technology and advancements but I’m also for providing the patient with as much information as possible and letting them make an educated decision. I hope everyone associated with this business regardless of their capacity becomes a billionaire but that do it honestly.

    Let the patients that sign up for this robot know that the punch is bigger than what most highly skilled doctors are using and are getting a comparable or lower transaction rate. The result of using a bigger punch obviously is a greater chance for white dot scarring. Some of the pictures I have seen of clinics using a 1mm punch can only be described as shot gun blast to the back of the head.

    This machine in its current state also limits the harvesting area so what exactly is the limit on how many fue’s can be extracted over time. My guess is that it would be a fairly low number so what is the point? As I stated in my previous post the odds of over harvesting is going to be very high.

    I would like to know the thoughts of all the consumer advocates out there. Why is important information always conveniently left out by many clinics and people in this industry?

    I understand that we don't want to step on anyone's toes but you are either a consumer advocate or you're not. There is no in between.

  7. #17
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    Topcat, you have always offered a lot to this forum, but I think your reasoning might be a bit skewed on this subject. From everything that I have read and from what Spencer Kobren explained on his radio show, the ARTAS actually has a two punch mechanism that can in fact be customized to fit a smaller punch. A sharp punch is used to cut through the surface of the skin that measures 1mm, which is then followed by a 1.3mm dull punch to separate and then remove the lower part of the graft.
    If I understand how he explained it, even if they choose to make the initial cut with a slightly lager punch then a .8mm, for example, since it is not completely cutting the graft out, the surface has much less sharp trauma and will contract and heal as well as using a smaller punch. So in the end the result should be the same or better and more consistent. Like he says, only time will tell, but I personally think it’s a wonderful step forward to getting good FUE to those who want it.

  8. #18
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    I’m not sure if I would agree with you view on my reasoning being skewed. I have seen plenty of white dot scarring from FUE and I have spoken to numerous patients that never expected nor were they told about it before having surgery. I knew at least 5 years ago that I would only accept a punch that was .75 or something very close to it. This is why I was able to have 500 fue’s extracted from my face within a very small area.

    I would also disagree with what you wrote about the 1mm punch that is only scoring the area not being a problem. It is drastically larger than a .75mm punch when the surface area is calculated. But that is the whole idea of the posting. Ask the right questions before having any procedure. Ask to see the donor area shaved after it has completely healed and evaluate the result for yourself.

    I have had my share of scarring over the last 25 years no need for others to have to have the same experience. You will not see any ethical clinics using a 1mm punch on someone’s face for obvious reasons. The scalp is no different. Is that smaller punch slow, tedious and not as profitable, absolutely. But some things are more important like what is best for the patient. I know for many this will not be a popular opinion but I’m not trying to be popular. These same issues were being discussed back in 2004 yet too many patients were still in the dark and have paid the price. Anyway I like a healthy civil debate and anyone that thinks because a person is a doctor that they have all the answers they would be wrong. They are here to make money and there is nothing wrong with that just do it ethically.

  9. #19
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    Hmmm. Watch this space. I'll thorw out a wild optimistic guess but I think in 3 years this system will be using multiple size extraction punches, 0.75mm, 0.85mm, 0.95mm, will be perfectly identifying the number of hairs per FU and will be operating at 1500FU/hour.

    It could create extraction maps so that after extracting say 3000 FU it knows how to best extract extract another 2000 on a second pass years down the line.

    Perhaps scanning and mapping the recipient could be used in conjunction with ARTAS and some software to layout a plan to optimise the use of extracted hair in the recipient. I'd love to see such software. A laser overlay that tracks even minute movements of the patient's recipient could show where to make incisions for certain densities etc. That would be pretty cool. Maybe wishful thinking on my part but that would be my vision for FUE.

  10. #20
    Senior Member gillenator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Follicle Death Row View Post
    Hmmm. Watch this space. I'll thorw out a wild optimistic guess but I think in 3 years this system will be using multiple size extraction punches, 0.75mm, 0.85mm, 0.95mm, will be perfectly identifying the number of hairs per FU and will be operating at 1500FU/hour.

    It could create extraction maps so that after extracting say 3000 FU it knows how to best extract extract another 2000 on a second pass years down the line.

    Perhaps scanning and mapping the recipient could be used in conjunction with ARTAS and some software to layout a plan to optimise the use of extracted hair in the recipient. I'd love to see such software. A laser overlay that tracks even minute movements of the patient's recipient could show where to make incisions for certain densities etc. That would be pretty cool. Maybe wishful thinking on my part but that would be my vision for FUE.
    Actually FDR, I don't think your optimism is wild nor a guess but rather educated observations and conclusions to date. I think vascular surgeons are working on similiar software. Watch this technology really take off in the next several years just as you stated.
    "Gillenator"
    Independent Patient Advocate
    more.hair@verizon.net

    NOTE: I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice nor are they the opinions of the following endorsing physicians: Dr. Bob True & Dr. Bob Dorin

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