All Propecia users,,, come here please !!!

[Harris]

ccmethinning im in the same boat as you where all my farthers side are bald im gald you benifited from propecia what age did they go bald? and was it diffuse thining im worrried that beacuse the gene is so strong I wont do well on Propecia I have been on the drug for 6 months no sides but still doesnt seem to be working when did you notice propecia worked for you/

[ccmethinning]

ccmethinning im in the same boat as you where all my farthers side are bald im gald you benifited from propecia what age did they go bald? and was it diffuse thining im worrried that beacuse the gene is so strong I wont do well on Propecia I have been on the drug for 6 months no sides but still doesnt seem to be working when did you notice propecia worked for you/

Dad was NW6 by 30. He has another brother that also went NW6 at 30, another brother that was NW4 at 30, NW5 at 40, and NW6 at 50, and another brother that is a NW3V at age 60. His father (mygrandfather) went NW6 around 35-40.

I am not on Propecia yet.

[rdawg]

Been on it for about 2 weeks now, nothing so far.

has anyone with Vellus/Miniaturish hair experience thickening. I'm around a NW3, started thinning on top of the head and have alot of Vellus hair around the temples. I realize Propecia/Proscar doesn't regrow hair, but does it thicken Vellus hairs?

at least it's a decent solution to hold on to the hair you have, can't say people in the 90's had this option. Here's hoping Histogen or something else works in the next few years!

[SoothSayer]

Yup, complete speculation with no data to support. Interesting theory, however.

Here is a basic overview of the physiology of erectile function from the Masters Mens Clinic, one of the largest facilities for men's health in North America. There is a lot that is not known about the endocrine system, but the connection between DHT and erectile function is not one of them.

http://www.mastersmensclinic.com/mal...l_function.htm

[the_charger]

Here is a basic overview of the physiology of erectile function from the Masters Mens Clinic, one of the largest facilities for men's health in North America. There is a lot that is not known about the endocrine system, but the connection between DHT and erectile function is not one of them.

http://www.mastersmensclinic.com/mal...l_function.htm

.....this looks like an extremely weak source. Im frankly surprised you would even post this, and makes me seriously question your ability to see anything objectively. From all that I have seen, articles that come from anti aging clinics are almost unanimously BS. This clinic treats Andropause which isnt even a real condition as per the WHO. Try googling "Is Andropause Real?" and almost all of the articles come from similar anti-aging and herbal clinics (companies). Yes, it looks to be the largest clinic that treats a condition that isn't recognized as being real.

one really good example from this webpage is:

There is less tissue production of DHT that is critically necessary to full male sexual function and bodily well being

There isn't even a source to back up this statement! It sounds like the author enjoys reaching his own conclusions. It's pretty obvious why. Since the clinic operates on selling hormonal treatments, they are financially motivated to write articles that show their treatments work. Why dont you see these things too Sooth? Im not trying to pick on you, but when you repeatedly insult me, question my intelligence then go and post something like this, I just have to jump down your throat.

Ive said this so many times in the past and nobody even takes a shot at giving me an answer. if dutasteride eliminates 95% of DHT from the body, how is it even possible these men can have any erection at all? less than 5% of men taking that drug experience any erectile dysfunction...

It's really as simple as this. If DHT is extremely important and crucial for erectile functioning, then removing DHT would show an almost universal occurrence of erectile dysfunction. dutasteride removes 95% of DHT, but we still see a very low occurence of erectile dysfunction.

[SoothSayer]

LOL - let me help you a bit since you didn't carefully read the source.

"An erection occurs, when under the influence of sexually arousing stimuli the penis becomes engorged with blood. An erection is a very complex biological phenomenon but it involves 2 chemicals that we can focus on that play a major role in both male and female sexual arousal. These are nitric oxide (NO) and cyclic guanosine monophosphate (cGMP). Both of these result in relaxation of smooth muscle that controls blood vessels within the penis. This results in increased blood flow within the penis and both of these chemicals are positively influenced by testosterone. That is, without sufficient testosterone, there will not be enough NO and cGMP to create an erection. It turns out that DHT (dihydrotestosterone) is the principle regulator of these chemicals and DHT is manufactured in the body from testosterone."

You can go further and check out tons of other articles to discuss the link between DHT, nitric oxide, and cGMP:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12601527

Remarkably, basal NO level was enhanced threefold by stimulating dermal papilla cells with 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) but not with testosterone.

http://books.google.com/books?id=mEg...%20dht&f=false

I won't go on further.. but please don't expect me to do your homework for you again.

[the_charger]

so you are posting two primary studies that show a link, then drawing your OWN conclusion that DHT is crucial to cause erections to happen? You should go apply for a job at the Masters Mens clinic, i'm sure you will be a shoe-in!

The fact that you posted these shows me that I don't even have to waste a minute searching for any studies. You cant even post a single study that says: DHT is essential for erectile function because of X. We have demonstrated this because of Y. All you can do is post one study that says X, another study that says Y, then based on your OWN non-medical opinion conclude, that X + Y = Z. I want to see a non-quack doctor or group of researchers reach this conclusion based on strong evidence, not some anonymous poster with a staggering bias on a hair loss forum.

Just one more time, i'm not surprised you continue to skirt this question like you always do, but your personal opinion is that DHT is extremely important for erectile function, right? Do you then believe that every man who takes dutasteride is unable to obtain an erection? I think it's hilarious that you won't even take a swing at answering this! Hell, maybe i'm completely wrong and missing something huge. You could absolutely be right. But until this question is answered, there is no way what you are saying could be true by any stretch.

Stop being so blinded by your bias and trying to desperately to convince everyone of something that is so blatantly false. You've looked hard enough and found small, weak, primary studies that seem to show some sort of relationship, then try to shove it down peoples throats as common knowledge?

you are doing the exact same thing as those nut-jobs who believe vaccines are dangerous and don't work. You keep looking hard enough, you will always find something to support your beliefs, no matter how misguided they may be.

[SoothSayer]

You don't seem to be able to engage in intelligent discussion so I will not proceed with this conversation about DHT and erectile function. For the readers with a little frontal lobe available for use - the evidence has been presented.

[SoothSayer]

Just one more time, i'm not surprised you continue to skirt this question like you always do, but your personal opinion is that DHT is extremely important for erectile function, right? Do you then believe that every man who takes dutasteride is unable to obtain an erection? I think it's hilarious that you won't even take a swing at answering this! Hell, maybe i'm completely wrong and missing something huge.

DHT influencing erectile function is as much opinion as the notion that lifting weights builds muscle fiber. No, not everybody experiences erectile dysfunction after using 5-AR inhibitors. People have these things called genes that cause variation in biological functioning across humans - some men require higher levels of androgens to feel good and function normally and others will thrive on lower levels. The endocrine system is a very delicate system that can be thrown into chaos if faced with unnatural interventions. Some men with more resilient endocrine systems do fine with these drugs and others do not. The 'huge' thing you are missing seems to be a healthy brain.

[the_charger]

DHT influencing erectile function is as much opinion as the notion that lifting weights builds muscle fiber.

if this is really so cut and dry then why can you not find one single study that reaches this conclusion? Like i said in my previous post, you found two studies: one that says X, and one that says Y. You then conclude X + Y = Z. Thats not how it works, and I know you know that's not how it works.


Here is my contribution. This study has over a dozen references and was conducted by a hospital in north america

The Effect of 5 a-Reductase Review Inhibitors on Erectile Function

J Androl 2008;29:514–523

"In this review, we surveyed studies on erectile dysfunction in patients treated with 5 reductase inhibitors and critically examined the evidence that associates 5 a-reductase inhibitors and erectile dysfunction. We conclude that 5 a-reductase inhibitors do not lead to erectile dysfunction to a significant degree, and we support the position that dihydrotestosterone is less relevant than testosterone in erectile function.."

and

"the critical androgenic substance for these effects is most likely T rather than DHT."

Four of the references in this study referenced "Nitric Oxide" in the titles. These guys obviously did their research, and had access to way more resources than you or I ever could. They reached the conclusion that DHT is NOT crucial for erection. To go even further, they couldnt even statistically establish that finasteride causes any ED whatsoever!

and just to be crystal clear, I did not reach these conclusions, the researchers did and it was based on mounds of information. why are your two studies and your interpretation more accurate than this?

No, not everybody experiences erectile dysfunction after using 5-AR inhibitors. People have these things called genes that cause variation in biological functioning across humans - some men require higher levels of androgens to feel good and function normally and others will thrive on lower levels. The endocrine system is a very delicate system that can be thrown into chaos if faced with unnatural interventions. Some men with more resilient endocrine systems do fine with these drugs and others do not.

We aren't arguing about 'some men'! You are trying to steer the conversation away from the topic again. Yeah some men rarely will have major problems if they are predisposed to hormonal problems, and maybe propecia could even cause this to happen.

What you are trying to tell me that it is common knowledge is that DHT is necessary for men to get an erection. There is nothing out there that shows this is true.... In fact there is sufficient evidence that shows DHT is not important, like what i posted above.

The 'huge' thing you are missing seems to be a healthy brain.

I love how you keep up with these childish insults and talk down to me, but then in the previous post you say I am the one that can't engage in intelligent discussion? Im pretty sure i've kept up and challenged you more than anyone else on this forum so grow up already. I would be happy to have a respectable and intelligent debate with you, but YOU are the one that repeatedly insults me and bringing it to a personal level......