Transplanted hair receding years after HT. - BaldTruthTalk.com
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  1. #1
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    Default Transplanted hair receding years after HT.

    Hi everybody,
    My hair started to recede noticeably at the age of 17, GP's and Hair transplant surgeons diagnosed it as Male pattern baldness and I see no reason to disagree with them. I think was about a Norwood 4 to 5 when I received my first Hair transplant at the age of 23 in the front/top of the scalp, my regrowth was slow only starting to really show progress at about 6 - 8 months and continued to improve till about the 12 month mark. I was quite happy with the result, the hair sprouted and thickened quite considerably.

    approximately 2 years later I had a second hair transplant. By that stage i had a suspicion my previous HT result was in a state of decline but I wasn't sure as I hadn't really documented my progress well enough and started to lose perspective and my surgeon didn't make any remarks about it. Anyway we proceeded with the second procedure to fill in the crown and thicken up the front area from my pervious HT. Anyway the second hair transplant yielded poor regrowth at the crown but some regrowth at the front of the head but again about a year later started to show signs of thinning.

    It has now been approximately 4 and a half years after my first session and 2 and a half years after my second session and my HT surgeon and myself are convinced that my transplanted hair is gradually falling out. We did a biopsy to test for androgen receptors in the donor region and it came back negative, the hair at the side of my head (donor region) is strong and thick and shows no signs of thinnig, diffused or otherwise. I am fit, healthy, don't smoke etc. and I am hoping for some insight into why my hair transplants are showing positive growth results for a year or so then falling out.

    If any body can give me any guidance I would be so appreciative as I don't know what to do at this point, I am too scared to undertake more H.T (even though my surgeon is offering to do it for free until we reach the desired result) for fear of it just falling out once more. Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Senior Member gillenator's Avatar
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    slo,

    Listen my friend. We need to talk. Contact me at my email link below and we can discuss by phone. It's better that I call you because it would take me forever to type the reply you are seeking. I can talk much faster than type. My following opinions are based on the past three decades of observation in HT patients.

    You may very well be experiencing a phenomenon that some patients do unfortunately experience. I am and have been actually doing a research project on this phenomenon. Thank goodness it is the exception and not the rule!

    I do not know how your doc confirmed the fact that you are "losing" your past transplants other than simply looking at what was once there and how much is left. In other words, comparing past photos post-op when everything from your past procedure grew in.

    IMHO, the best way to determine if you hair is diffusing or being lost is by closely examining the individual transplanted hair shafts under a scope with at least 30X empowerment. I use a densiometer because it has a light meter built in. It's a hand held instrument that can be purchased at Radio Shack for approximately $20 US. Believe it or not, you can even use a magnifying glass to monitor and compare the differences in "hair shaft diameter". So to make my pount clear, you are comparing differences in hair shaft diameter to confirm the diffusion.

    You simply take small individual hair samples in any zone that you notice diffusing going on. You then take "terminal" hair samples from the donor zones (sides and back zones, parietal/occipital). Compare hair shaft diameter between the diffused hair samples to the terminal hair.

    You can even mail the samples to me and I will examine them for you providing that you acknolowledge by reply email that I am not a licensed physician nor making any clinical representations and/or any formal certifications. You are getting my lay opinion, nothing else.

    But I have been doing this on myself and some other younger men who are just beginning to notice the effects of MPB. I use the same approach to informally confirm if finasteride is working to stabilize the loss of hair shaft diameter. I am also as I said conducting my own research on past HT patients who feel they may be losing their transplants. I can say that most of the participants are at least 5 or more years post-op.

    It is extremely rare to see the loss occur at such a soon interval as you are experiencing. I would say the average has been between 10 and 15 years post-op. Let me also say it is rare for this phenomenon to occur. Clearly, this is not the norm and I have tried to get more feedback from several HT docs. But what I have found is that many of them are uncomfortable discussing or confirming that is in fact a potential part of the risk in HT surgery.

    My premonition is that this is occuring more than we realize and why I am doing the ongoing research project.

    I will need your written release and cooperation if you would like to participate and why we need to talk further. You can also forward to me ongoing digital quality pics of the thinning zones, again for comparison purposes only. Your case and file is strictly confidential with me.

    It's the "why is this occuring" question that we are trying to answer with a scientific conclusion.

    Now, if you want my opinion to date as to why this phenomenon is occuring, here it is: I believe the main reason why any patient may lose their transplants at a future date is because some of the donor hair is in fact DHT receptive. In other words, I am realizing more and more, or better stated, I am becoming more convinced with time that terminal hair is not a black and white issue.

    Just because it was harvested from the occipital zone does not necessarily imply that it will last forever. Some of it will last for decades and some will not. There is no way of telling strand by strand because an extremely high percent of HT patients are doing the procedure when most of their donor zones appear as terminal hair without exception. I am finding that there are in fact exceptions. Those zones do not show very much miniturization if any at younger ages. It begins to show as we age. That's why it is easy to be mistaken.

    Here's the key folks! This is the most critical statement I can state on this issue. If You have donor zone thinning in your family history on either side of your family (maternal or paternal), then there's a real possibilty that you will experience it as well. So if donor zone thinning is in your cards, then it is very possible that some of your transplanted hair is in fact DHT receptive!

    One last statement. One of the similarities between the participating patients have in common is guess what? Donor zone thinning in their family history! That's is the only real evidence that supports the answer to this phenomenon. I do not include individuals who are on meds with hairloss as a potential side-effect nor people with diseases that can also cause hairloss like Lupus for example.

    To date, I cannot find any other source or reason as to why the permanency of transplanted hair fails other than some of it is DHT receptive to begin with.

    I began to come to this conclusion about 3 years ago and why some of you have noticed that I began to warn and inform new patients to reconsider HTs "if" and I repeat "if" they have histories of donor zone thinning in their families. At the same time, I began to warn new patients to not consider "nape hair" for donor use "if" they have donor zone thinning in their families.

    I have been criticized for this opinion in the past, yet as time rolls on, there are more patients like you experiencing this dilemma.

    Again, it is something for every patient to explore and consider before they ever step into the OR room!

    I truly hope this has been helpful to you and any others who may be experiencing the same thing.

    Let me know if I can be of any futher help. See what I mean by the amount time it takes to type all of this?
    "Gillenator"
    Independent Patient Advocate
    more.hair@verizon.net

    NOTE: I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice nor are they the opinions of the following endorsing physicians: Dr. James Harris, Dr. Bob True & Dr. Bob Dorin

  3. #3
    Senior Member gillenator's Avatar
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    slo,

    FYI, I won't be available until August 11th, just in case you try and get in touch with me and do not get a reply.
    "Gillenator"
    Independent Patient Advocate
    more.hair@verizon.net

    NOTE: I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice nor are they the opinions of the following endorsing physicians: Dr. James Harris, Dr. Bob True & Dr. Bob Dorin

  4. #4
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    Slo, this is the nightmare I've been going through for the past 6 months. I too have been losing a lot of my transplanted hair. The thing is, I've had FOUR HTs, all in the frontal area over the past decade but continued to notice more thinning. The last HT was just over 1 1/2 years ago. Six months ago my hair started falling out like rain, which left the frontal area thinner than ever before. Went to see my doctor only to be shocked when he told me that I was one of the rare cases where the transplanted hair is lost with time. I was completely devastated and ever since my depression has shot through the roof. I am mad because we're always told that transplanted hair is permanent. No body cares to tell the truth that in some cases it ISNT permanent. Yes, those might be rare cases but doctors SHOULD tell us about that possibility. Had I known that, I wouldn't have gotten my last HT.

    You have no idea how depressed and sad I am about this. Over $20,000+ interest spent on HTs and now I find out it maybe be for nothing. I am furious because I didn't sit around and pray for a miracle. No, I got out and spent my own god damn hard earned money that I took years to make to fix this ****ing curse but then god decides no, you're not gonna have your hair back. This is like a double curse. First my ****ing father gives me the baldness gene, then I find out that even my transplanted hair will fall out. How nice is that ?

    I think this needs to get out. People need to know about it, even if it is a rare condition, although I DON'T think it's as rare as they'd like us to believe.

    **** LIFE.

  5. #5
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    Gillenator, fantastic write up. Someone else asked the question of whether transplanted hair is permanent in one of the other sub-forums and I told them yes and no and it kind of depends. What you say about occipital thinning is I think true in many of these cases.

    We also know that a young man will have higher denisty in his donor region, perhaps 100FU/cm2, compared to a man 20 years older who may have 80FU/cm2. Therefore it was my train of thought that in fact you could expect to lose some transplanted hair over time. When you're transplanting at 45FU/cm2 and you lose 9FU/cm2 or 20% over time then it's going to have a dramatic effect. 36 will look significantly thinner whereas 45 with favourable lighting could look full.

    This brings up another interesting point; the virgin scalp at 40, 45 may be in a more favourable position than a 25 year old as donor density may have already thinned a little meaning that it could be more likely that the hair transplanted at this age is for want of a better term 'more permanent' or likely to be permanent. Just a thought.

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    I don't think the transplanted hairs fall out because of DHT effects. At least not in my case and other similar cases. My transplanted hairs seem to fall out all of a sudden. They're there for a year, two, three or four and maybe more then many of them start disappearing within a couple of months. I doubt that has anything to do with them being susceptible to DHT effects.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by VictimOfDHT View Post
    I don't think the transplanted hairs fall out because of DHT effects. At least not in my case and other similar cases. My transplanted hairs seem to fall out all of a sudden. They're there for a year, two, three or four and maybe more then many of them start disappearing within a couple of months. I doubt that has anything to do with them being susceptible to DHT effects.
    Yes I agree with you, the hair don't seem to be shedding and getting smaller and smaller, they just seem to fall out as big thick shafts and not return. The remaining hairs are all thick and strong just sparsely distributed due to the lack of density.

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    This is strange because even if the donor was affected by dht, wouldn't the transplanted hairs thin at the pace of the donor? Even if the donor thins, why are they dying or falling earlier? Plus, I've seen pics of guys with real thin hair in donor that get HT with good results. I doubt it's the DHT on donor.

  9. #9
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    I was undecided whether I should go for hair transplant operation. I recently asked my family doctor for some advice and he is against it. From what he said, for many people the transplanted hair will eventually fall out; the transplanted hair seems to take on the characteristics of other hair in the recipient area and eventually suffer the same fate. He said if I start hair transplant, there maybe an unending cycle of catch-up to follow, until I am exhausted.

    I am quite scared by what he said and am now holding back. I feel sorry for guys who have to go through this.

    The thing is, on the other hand, the hair transplant doctor told me there are more than 95% transplanted hair survival and it is for life. I just don't know if he is intentionally hiding the fact from me or if this is really so rare that it doesn't worth mentioning.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan7777 View Post
    I was undecided whether I should go for hair transplant operation. I recently asked my family doctor for some advice and he is against it. From what he said, for many people the transplanted hair will eventually fall out; the transplanted hair seems to take on the characteristics of other hair in the recipient area and eventually suffer the same fate. He said if I start hair transplant, there maybe an unending cycle of catch-up to follow, until I am exhausted.

    I am quite scared by what he said and am now holding back. I feel sorry for guys who have to go through this.

    The thing is, on the other hand, the hair transplant doctor told me there are more than 95% transplanted hair survival and it is for life. I just don't know if he is intentionally hiding the fact from me or if this is really so rare that it doesn't worth mentioning.
    dont even think to have a ht ..if they care about bald ppl its time for a better treatment ...and for the rest its time to shave that bluddy hair lol at least till they will come out with a real nice treatment....

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