A Grieving Mother's Warning About Propecia

[the_charger]

Bakez, I somewhat agree with you here, but you really should try to act a bit more mature. Don't throw out insults like that, it's really childish! We all saw how Dr. Crisler acted and now what do we all think of him? Guys like Mens Rea and Propeciavictim have been very mature about all this, so you should show them the same respect, even if you disagree.

Mens rea, I’m willing to go on faith that you guys are telling the truth here, but maybe the risk is being overstated. That doesn’t make any of this easier for you guys, and anyone on propecia still needs to seriously consider all of this before starting.

But im sure you do understand its hard for a lot of guys to believe this, when there really isnt much evidence supporting what you guys say. But that might change very soon.

Another thing I noticed is that lots of you guys seem to have started on it relatively young. Do you think maybe the age you start might have something to do with increasing the risk?

The reason I say that is because for example, Dr. Wasserbauer says shes prescribed between 5000-7000 patients propecia, but I would say most of those guys are probably over 30 if they are getting hair transplants to go along with it. Almost all the guys I saw on propeciahelp started before they were 25. I know that puberty is usually done for most guys by 16, but I’ve personally known guys who didn’t even hit it till they were 17 or 18.. And from what I remember at health class, it can take 3 or 4 years for it to finish (including the hormones changes and all that).

So yeah, some guys might not even be done puberty changes till 22 or 23, and if you took propecia before that was finished, I can easily see how badly it might mess you up. That’s just a theory though, not based on any real science! But from what I’ve seen, its mostly young guys that have these problems. I haven’t read many stories on propeciahelp of guys that started on this in their 30’s or later and had permanent problems.

But if any of that is true, I am worried because I’m only 19! But I hit puberty earlier than my friends, at 13 or 14.. Maybe that’s part of why im balding so young!

[the_charger]

By the way I agree with your last post too Mens Rea, you show a lot of courage and strength with your determination to fix things. Even keeping a postivie attitude like you do will help so much.

you are definitely not the norm that I see a propeciahelp. Everyone there is so hopeless, and lots of them have already given up. Even with something like what you are going through, there are so many things you can do to make yourself healthier, and at least make things a better until someone figures out exactly how to cure it.

You look at people suffering from serious deseases like cancer, and it's over for them the second they decide to give up. Just by having a positive outlook makes a world of difference! I have a lot of respect for you for that, man!

[PropeciaVictim]

I don't think being younger makes you more susceptible to developing PFS so I don't think you should feel more at risk than any other Propecia consumer.

Dr. Wasserbauer's personal anecdotes are likely to be extremely biased. She mentioned in her interview that men would call her with side effects and she would just tell them not to worry since they were likely psychological.

When I was prescribed Propecia at age 22, I developed noticeably less strong erections within a couple of days after taking the drug. I emailed my doctor and he said the side effects are so rare that it is likely in my head and disregarded my report.

He is not a hair transplant doctor, but if you were to ask him if persistent side effects were to have been reported to him it is overwhelmingly probable he would say no, despite that not being true. Needless to say, I was frustrated and never returned to him. It really doesn't make sense to visit Dr. Wasserbauer with sexual problems, especially when she really is not terribly familiar with the endocrine and reproductive systems. Even though she prescribed the drug, her likely dismissive attitude will influence her patient to make a b-line for a second opinion.

If she were to make a more rigorous effort to call each and every one of her patients that used Propecia and asked neutral questions about the sexual health before and after the use of the medication, her comments would be more credible.

[PropeciaVictim]

For those who are interested, I just found a letter from the FDA to Merck in 1998 where they were caught for fraudulent marketing and required to stop airing many of their advertisements.

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/EnforcementActivitiesbyFDA/WarningLettersandNoticeofViolationLetterstoPharmaceuticalCompanies/UCM168159.pdf

[UK_]

For those who are interested, I just found a letter from the FDA to Merck in 1998 where they were caught for fraudulent marketing and required to stop airing many of their advertisements.

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/G.../UCM168159.pdf

lol scumbags.

[Mens Rea]

Mens rea, I’m willing to go on faith that you guys are telling the truth here, but maybe the risk is being overstated. That doesn’t make any of this easier for you guys, and anyone on propecia still needs to seriously consider all of this before starting.

I'm not sure where the risk has been overstated, though. Noone is really trying to put numbers on it because none of us really know for sure.

But im sure you do understand its hard for a lot of guys to believe this, when there really isnt much evidence supporting what you guys say. But that might change very soon.

It will slowly change over time, but yeah I BARELY BELIEVE IT myself even when i see it with my own eyes. It's nuts.

Another thing I noticed is that lots of you guys seem to have started on it relatively young. Do you think maybe the age you start might have something to do with increasing the risk?

I don't think so. But i definately wouldn't start it younger than 21-23. Who knows for sure, though. We know so little about these things right now you could well be right.

But if any of that is true, I am worried because I’m only 19! But I hit puberty earlier than my friends, at 13 or 14.. Maybe that’s part of why im balding so young!

I just can't advise you man. It's a personal choice. If you have aggressive thinning at 19 i doubt fin will do that much anyway. It didn't for me, anyway.

Your chances of persisting sides are probably low but i wouldn't be surprised if you got some sides on the drug. Up to you to exercise good judgement.

[seattle30]

On the topic of erectile physiology from a few posts ago. This paper deals with the effects of finasteride on erectile function. Obviously there are many possible reasons why PFS is occuring, but I wonder if the disorganized and thick collagenous fibers in the tunica albuginea are present even after cessation of propecia in people with PFS?

http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/content/full/29/5/514

"Further evaluation of the role of DHT in the penis has been done at the penile morphologic level. Shen et al (2000) investigated the ultrastructural changes of the penile corpus cavernosum and tunica albuginea in rats representing 3 groups: sham control, castrated, and treated with finasteride. Four weeks later, blood samples were obtained for the determination of serum T and DHT levels, and penile tissues were taken for scanning electron microscopy. The T and DHT levels in castrated rats and the DHT level in finasteride-treated groups were significantly lower than those in the control group. In the castrated animals, there was a high degree of fibrosis in the corpus cavernosum with irregularly arranged collagenous fibers and a marked decrease in smooth muscle fibers, while in the DHT-inhibited group (finasteride-treated), the corpus cavernosum comprised a substantial amount of thick and irregularly arranged collagenous fibers, but the degree of fibrosis was less than that of the castration group (Shen et al, 2000). This work suggests that because finasteride inhibits the action of DHT but not T on the corporal cavernosal tissue, the degree of fibrosis was less in the DHT-inhibited group than in the castration group. In the castration group, the thickness of tunica albuginea decreased significantly and the elastic fibers were mostly supplanted by collagenous fibers, and in the DHT-inhibited group, the elastic fibers were replaced by disorganized and thick collagenous fibers. Since the tunica albuginea plays a major role in the erectile mechanism of the penis, the latter results offer an explanation for the presentation of ED in patients treated with 5ARIs."

[PropeciaVictim]

It is possible, but to my knowledge it is impossible to know for sure without physically removing the penis. Months after stopping finasteride I had very low serum DHT levels. If low DHT leads to disorganized penile fibers in humans it is possible that is possibly part of the reason why the effects participated. One possible treatment is to put Andractim (DHT) right onto your penis. I have not yet tried this and do not know that it has worked for anybody yet.

[seattle30]

Think you are probably right but was just wondering if there may be a way to biopsy the tissue. It talks about scanning electron microscopy which is a microscope probably only available at research labs. Would be intresting to talk to a urologist about the paper.

[PabloR]

A sad story in indeed, my heart goes out to his friends and family!

[fastinjun]

**** sake, I started taking this crap in 1999, took it till around 2004, made my life a living hell and when I'd post on some of these hairloss forums I was told it was all in my head. Im sure this poor guy went through hell in order to end his life, to be honest, the thought went through my head many times. An absolute living hell it was. My heart goes out to the parents and I hope Merck goes to hell soon

[Mens Rea]

**** sake, I started taking this crap in 1999, took it till around 2004, made my life a living hell and when I'd post on some of these hairloss forums I was told it was all in my head. Im sure this poor guy went through hell in order to end his life, to be honest, the thought went through my head many times. An absolute living hell it was. My heart goes out to the parents and I hope Merck goes to hell soon

Have you recovered?

[fastinjun]

I recovered almost 100 %, there are some "reminders" but overall yes. It took a long time and it was a painful road.
When I see some of the responses to the video saying "how do we know it was propecia causing his symptoms'? etc. He had the same mental symptoms that I did, brain fog, not being able to function or think straight. It was like being in a dream state but never waking up from it. It was a nightmare. I went to doctors and was only told it was all in my head etc. I went to so many and was told the same thing.
I really feel for the parents and this poor soul who took his life.
Merck is the devil in my opinion, they knew of the sides but greed prevailed.

[Mens Rea]

I recovered almost 100 %, there are some "reminders" but overall yes. It took a long time and it was a painful road.
When I see some of the responses to the video saying "how do we know it was propecia causing his symptoms'? etc. He had the same mental symptoms that I did, brain fog, not being able to function or think straight. It was like being in a dream state but never waking up from it. It was a nightmare. I went to doctors and was only told it was all in my head etc. I went to so many and was told the same thing.
I really feel for the parents and this poor soul who took his life.
Merck is the devil in my opinion, they knew of the sides but greed prevailed.

I'm delighted to hear your recovered.

Can you, please, PLEASE report your recovery on propeciahelp if you haven't already? There are so little reported recoveries on there because many guys don't return. Some less knowledgable posters don't realise this and think noone recovers and lose all hope. You story would help many, believe me.

[UK_]

I guess theres one thing in life worse than losing your hair, and thats losing your sex life.