Histogen Update - Spencer Kobren Speaks With Dr. Craig L. Ziering

[Follicle Death Row]

If they're trying to cure cancer I'm all for them but you can't be telling me this is just some little side project. I mean there should be a company with their full focus on finding out how to cure the genetic defect in MPB, or make a treatment that lets you grow all your hairs back. But like I said if their main goal is getting rid of cancer I'm still rooting for them.

Au contraire thankfully. As it is such an important product in their pipeline it has to be a success for them to fund, research and grow in order to develop new anti cancer drugs. I think in this instance it works in our favour.

[DepressedByHairLoss]

The thing is, with baldness [lol]... the more you research the disorder the more you realise how complicated an issue it really is. I mean you're talking of trying to generate [create] in the lab or in human scalp tissue over 15,000 separate organs with a multitude of interconnected dynamics, a host of complex pathways that govern a cyclical pattern of growth/rest/shed like clockwork... organs that have been stated to be more complex than some of our more important ones.

It really is a tough road... and to be honest... I dont wish to be a downer here but the more I delve into the years of research the more I feel the 'better treatment' will come from an evolution of transplantation as opposed to a one-shot miracle injection like HST.

Regardless, for those of you who have just started thinning, count yourselves lucky, Samiam I believe you're still in your teens - when I was your age there was literally NOTHING and I mean NOTHING going on... it was a real dark age where one literally only had the choice of either turning to Minoxidil or a hair transplant surgeon you could never review properly.

I agree and disagree to a certain degree. Although it may be a bit complex, I don't think that it's nearly as complex as it's made out to be. Although hair is considered an organ, it's not nearly as complex to create hair as it is to create other organs like a heart, lungs, or liver. Hell, even ineffective products like minoxidil and finasteride can create hair and those weren't even meant to in the first place. I believe that there has not be a cure/effective treatment for hair loss because not even people are trying to cure it. I am so glad that we have companies like Histogen, Follica, and Replicel, but those are the exceptions. If we had even a total of ten companies trying to develop cures for hair loss then maybe we would have something by now. Some of the pathways that affect hair loss have been identified such as WNT and sonic hedgehog. And certain chemicals have been identified to stimulate hair growth such as Noggin and BMP. I am so glad that Histogen is experimenting with WNT proteins , but if other companies experimented with the sonic hedgehog pathway to stimulate hair growth or Noggin, then I would be a hell of a lot for confident that something will soon be developed to combat hair loss. Hell, we have minoxidil and finasteride now (which are really sorry and ineffective options, IMO) but those weren't even made to combat hair loss in the first place, people just saw that they did minimal things for hair loss as a side effect. So the people who developed minox and fin weren't even trying to cure hair loss in the first place. If we had more companies and people doing things to cure hair loss (and in humans, NOT MICE) then maybe we would have something more effective by now.

[VictimOfDHT]

I don't believe it's that complicated either. If the ****ers spent more time figuring out how to clone hair instead of cloning sheep and mice we would've put an end to this curse (hair loss) long time ago.

[Follicle Death Row]

To create one new hair is simple. They've done this already. Embedding dermal papillae can create a fully functioning hair follicle. This is pretty much the route Cooley and Aderans are both exploring. Trying to do this on the scale of 25,000-30,000 hairs may not be so easy, I don't know. Ultimately I believe it will be a case of extracting and multiplying dermal papillae from the donor and embedding them. Refined hairlines my have to be FUE/HST though or perhaps not. Who knows at this point.

[Samiam]

To create one new hair is simple. They've done this already. Embedding dermal papillae can create a fully functioning hair follicle. This is pretty much the route Cooley and Aderans are both exploring. Trying to do this on the scale of 25,000-30,000 hairs may not be so easy, I don't know. Ultimately I believe it will be a case of extracting and multiplying dermal papillae from the donor and embedding them. Refined hairlines my have to be FUE/HST though or perhaps not. Who knows at this point.

I might sound stupid, excuse me I'm young , but if you can create one fully functioning hair follicle, why would it be so much harder to do it again 25,000-30,000 times.

[GBB]

Hey guys I had emailed Histogen to find out about the clinical trials and when they would start, this is the reply I received.

Thank you for your continued interest. Although HSC continues to progress, we are not releasing any details about the Singapore clinical trial at this time. We do look forward to sharing the preliminary results of that trial in the coming months.

Thank you, and hope you are well.
Eileen

Does anyone think this means we should have some news really soon like this year or maybe early next year?

Oh, good! This is at least something. I had begun to worry that they had almost closed shop...:P I think Q1 next year will be the time to watch out for.

[Follicle Death Row]

I might sound stupid, excuse me I'm young , but if you can create one fully functioning hair follicle, why would it be so much harder to do it again 25,000-30,000 times.

I think it could be an issue of efficiency, consistency, quality and growth direction. Dr. Cooley has to use a lot of plucked hairs to create new ones. The success rate is not so high but it's getting better. It just seems not to work every time unfortunately. Same can be said of HST, not every graft provides adequate dermal papillae. As yet we do not know the efficiency and consistency of the cell based approaches. We know Aderans and Replicel have had some success but we don't know much else. Maybe they multiply a load of DP or DSC and only say 10 or 20% that are injected form fully functioning cosmetic hair follicles. It could be much higher and more efficient but we just don't know at this stage.

Of course one day it will be well refined.

[UK_]

Oh, good! This is at least something. I had begun to worry that they had almost closed shop...:P I think Q1 next year will be the time to watch out for.

I know... Thank GOD...

I dont know what lengths i'd go to get my hands on a treatment like this - i'd sell my house, my car everything for one shot even if it gives me 5 years.

[DepressedByHairLoss]

I totally hear ya; I would spend ridiculous amounts of money to get back my full head of hair; or even get enough hair back so that I can look good in photos again. I would absolutely trade anything for a full head of hair. My job, my car, my nice apartment...........I would trade all of that in a second to have my hair back, and I wouldn't even think twice about it.

[Kiwi]

I don't believe it's that complicated either. If the ****ers spent more time figuring out how to clone hair instead of cloning sheep and mice we would've put an end to this curse (hair loss) long time ago.

The desperation is almost visible. It's like I could reach out and touch it.

To say that a cure for balding is not complicated is just a nieve and stupid. To say that the scintists spend too much time testing this stuff on mice is unbelievably out of touch with reality.

[Losing_It]

I don't know about giving up everything to my hair back. Its better to be bald with a roof over your head, than to be homeless with hair. It won't help me one bit at that stage. I too like many here would like to get all my hair back but not if I have to lose everything else first. Maybe I will take out a loan and pay an installment each month or dip into my savings. But the cost shouldn't be too prohibitive. HTs already are expensive and there is no guarantee that you will be happy with the result. HSC if it delivers on its promise should be in the range of us normal people otherwise it will only benefit a few and bankrupt the rest.

We have already seen some results in the pre-clinical whether they can build on those results we will have to see. In science 1 is not a pattern. It is about replicating those results. I tried to do a web search for Singapore clinical trials to see what Histogen's safety and efficacy end points are for HSC in the PHase 1/2, with no luck. I could only get to their Clinical Trial website but it doesn't have any information about current clinical trials being conducted in the country. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens.

[RichardDawkins]

Isurely wouldnt pay everything for those injection. I wont get those researchers on this track :-) i would pay a fair amount for this and thats it but i wouldnt lose my whole life to get back hair, thats ridiculous

[DepressedByHairLoss]

The desperation is almost visible. It's like I could reach out and touch it.

To say that a cure for balding is not complicated is just a nieve and stupid. To say that the scintists spend too much time testing this stuff on mice is unbelievably out of touch with reality.

It's not unbelievably out of touch with reality, it's the truth. I could literally name you over 100 scientists who have tested hair loss theories and chemicals on mice, but have never done anything to apply these theories and chemicals for human use. Fact is that there is disproportionally high number of scientists who only test on mice, but there are only a handful who work to develop hair regrowth applications to benefit humans. That is a glaring fact that is wrong with the pharmaceutical and research communities. But I really don't wanna sound repetitive here; I've elaborated on this fact in other posts. Thank God Craig Ziering is developing something that will hopefully benefit us all very soon. I have nothing but immense respect for Dr. Ziering. I just hope that Histogen will make the current version of their HSC Complex available in certain countries after Phase II. That would be a dream come true for me and a win-win situation for all those involved.

[Kiwi]

It's not unbelievably out of touch with reality, it's the truth. I could literally name you over 100 scientists who have tested hair loss theories and chemicals on mice, but have never done anything to apply these theories and chemicals for human use. Fact is that there is disproportionally high number of scientists who only test on mice, but there are only a handful who work to develop hair regrowth applications to benefit humans. That is a glaring fact that is wrong with the pharmaceutical and research communities. But I really don't wanna sound repetitive here; I've elaborated on this fact in other posts. Thank God Craig Ziering is developing something that will hopefully benefit us all very soon. I have nothing but immense respect for Dr. Ziering. I just hope that Histogen will make the current version of their HSC Complex available in certain countries after Phase II. That would be a dream come true for me and a win-win situation for all those involved.

You can't see the forest through the trees my friend. And you do sound repetitive. Very very repetitive.

Think about it. If it was easy then one of those 100 scientists would have taken their theory, or their working concept (well working on a mouse), and they would have done it by now. They would have done it because they would get unbelievably rich and we would have hair.

But guess what, its not easy. If it was there would be 100 odd really really really really rich scientists right now. Richer then what they could be paid off to keep it silent - so it wouldnt happen like that either.

I also get the feeling that in some weird strange, totally bizarre, odd, terrible, frakensteinish, and almost inhuman way, you are suggesting that scientists should bypass the lab rat and try out "theories" on humans?

Dude... WTF... Anyway I totally agree with you. Histogen are hopefully the answer we've all been waiting for

[DepressedByHairLoss]

You can't see the forest through the trees my friend. And you do sound repetitive. Very very repetitive.

Think about it. If it was easy then one of those 100 scientists would have taken their theory, or their working concept (well working on a mouse), and they would have done it by now. They would have done it because they would get unbelievably rich and we would have hair.

But guess what, its not easy. If it was there would be 100 odd really really really really rich scientists right now. Richer then what they could be paid off to keep it silent - so it wouldnt happen like that either.

I also get the feeling that in some weird strange, totally bizarre, odd, terrible, frakensteinish, and almost inhuman way, you are suggesting that scientists should bypass the lab rat and try out "theories" on humans?

Dude... WTF... Anyway I totally agree with you. Histogen are hopefully the answer we've all been waiting for

Wow, you are just completely misunderstanding what I'm saying. Of course a potential hair regrowth treatment should be tested on mice first, no question about it. No one's arguing that. The problem I have is that after these potential treatments are shown to regrow hair on mice, then at least 90% of them aren't even tested on humans. There are so many patented methods for increasing hair regrowth (BMP's, Noggin, Thymosin B4, Ephrin A3, N-WASP, laminin-511, lgr5) that have already been proven to regrow hair in mice, yet none of these are even attempted to be tested on humans. These chemicals after all could represent the cure that we're all waiting for but they're just left to sit there languishing on the vine.
I've heard that argument before that if a cure for baldness was found, then the scientist who discovered it would make millions, and that would be an incentive for them to find a cure for baldness. But if that was the case, then why wouldn't more scientists be even trying to cure baldness, instead of only 4 companies!! I wouldn't mind it so much if some of the treatments that have been proven to regrow hair in mice would've been tested on humans. Even if they failed, at least I'd know that more scientists are trying to cure baldness rather than spending all their time recommending ineffective stuff like Rogaine, Propecia, and hair transplants.
But whatever, I've argued this stuff before and I'm not gonna continue to argue it. This topic is dedicated to Histogen's HSC Complex and to encouraging Dr. Ziering and Dr. Naughton to continue to develop this complex so that it will hopefully regrow hair for us all. I really commend them for what they're doing; if more doctors and scientists were like them, then I would be more confident that a cure for baldness will come sooner rather than later. And as I've said before, I'd really like to encourage Drs. Ziering and Naughton to make the current version of HSC Complex available to people in Far Eastern countries after Phase II is done. So many of us would jump at the chance to try out what they have got so far (since their current results are exponentially better than what we have now) and it would generate money for them to devote to perfecting their final version of HSC Complex. As I've said before, it would be a win-win situation for everyone involved.