Histogen Update - Spencer Kobren Speaks With Dr. Craig L. Ziering

[Jundam]

If I were a betting man, I'd say you're wrong again. Before FUT I bet people were saying that the results are not worth it, only a few people will want it...

... But they too were wrong because we're both members of a club here where thousands of people pay to have their hair moved from the back of their head, to the front of their head.

So I disagree with you and I guarantee people will buy this even if it is 14 hairs per square cm. And it won't be just a few people either. As we know this is a billion dollar industry. It won't be just a few.

Don't know why it's being argued as if 14 hairs per square centimeter is the actual result and not just a standard they use to measure success in phase II trials as I pointed out earlier.

As far as the rest goes let's just say I think you're wrong on all of it. Can't be bothered to argue with another person about something they know absolutely nothing about.

[Kiwi]

Don't know why it's being argued as if 14 hairs per square centimeter is the actual result and not just a standard they use to measure success in phase II trials as I pointed out earlier.

As far as the rest goes let's just say I think you're wrong on all of it. Can't be bothered to argue with another person about something they know absolutely nothing about.

I know about business and hairloss. Intimately.

From a business POV you always launch with something rather then nothing, it guarantees you cash flow which is what companies like Histogen need in order to make solutions for people like us. If you disagree, read a book on business, I know this to be true.

From a hairloss POV, I've had two transplants and I'm not happy about it. I know about HT very very intimately. I've tried propecia and I was unlucky enough to get symptoms. Intimate ones. And I'm left with Rogain foam 5% which might help me keep the hair I have left.

From a maths point of view. If I can get more hairs growing on my head, even 14 per square cm at minimum, I'm signing up. Thousands of others will.

Lets be real about this. You probably don't get any more then 14 hairs per square cm from a good FUT operation. I know this is true too - because I've been there and done that. Donor only goes so far.

From a moral point of view. I don't give a **** about the morals of these businesses or any of the arguments I read on these forums. Mostly they are boring technicalities, conspiracy theories by people that have never tried to raise money before, and balding people that are emotionally biased.

Oh I've been there but I am not be there anymore and I would rather focus my facilities on the solutions... whether I agree with em or not.

I just want to get more hair upstairs. I guess we can both agree on that one, my balding brother

To back the business stuff up. I almost lost a round of funding in a company once because of a disgruntled customer posting some lies online. The investors actually asked me about this during their due diligence.

If people bash Histogen because they think they might be speeding up the process somehow... they are wrong. They are making shit difficult and slowing the process down for all of us. Including me which pisses me off.

Histogen / Aderans/ Cooley / Gho... I salute you.

[stillinHS1994]

Just sayin, but I i thought Aderans was getting 14 hairs a sq cm ....not Histogen...Has Histogen said they were getting 14 also?

[Jundam]

If people bash Histogen because they think they might be speeding up the process somehow... they are wrong. They are making shit difficult and slowing the process down for all of us. Including me which pisses me off.

Histogen / Aderans/ Cooley / Gho... I salute you.

I didn't really read all of it through 'cause I'm far too tired but all I will say is that nobody here is making things difficult or slowing down the process. You have to realize that nothing that happens on these forums affects hair loss research in the slightest. We really don't have anything to contribute either so as far as I'm concerned we're really just killing time while waiting for the next update. Honestly the more time I spend here the more useless it feels. Was probably better of as a silent observer checking in every once in a while to see if there's any updates.

[Jundam]

Just sayin, but I i thought Aderans was getting 14 hairs a sq cm ....not Histogen...Has Histogen said they were getting 14 also?

No, those were Aderans numbers. And honestly I'm not sure if they have even produced that yet or if that's still just a standard for measurement of success. They could just as well be below or above that number. Either way I won't bother thinking too much about it until they start phase III and try to maximize their numbers.

[Kiwi]

I didn't really read all of it through 'cause I'm far too tired but all I will say is that nobody here is making things difficult or slowing down the process. You have to realize that nothing that happens on these forums affects hair loss research in the slightest. We really don't have anything to contribute either so as far as I'm concerned we're really just killing time while waiting for the next update. Honestly the more time I spend here the more useless it feels. Was probably better of as a silent observer checking in every once in a while to see if there's any updates.

Well I can't argue with that. However I think its generally better to be positive and encouraging then to be the opposite. We know that docs from Histogen come here and we know that Cooley comes here.

I don't want to bust their balls. They are doing good things. I hope you stick around and chat about things - it all helps us come to a better understanding of the bigger picture.

[Dasani]

I'm new to this form and I have to say I'm incredibly impressed with Histogen's HSC. If I'm not mistaken, Histogen saw results in the ballpark of 50 hairs / cm^2 in their first round of clinical trails? That's 1/4 full density (assuming 200 hairs cm^2 = full density) from a baseline injection of the complex with the goal of testing safety not efficacy. If this product is compoundable, problem solved. We can all just stop thinking about hair loss and live our lives.

In a sense I think of myself as being fortunate. While yes I am beginning to lose my hair at a young age, we're part of the first generation of human beings that will almost certainly see a cure for male pattern baldness in our lifetimes (with a very strong chance of a cure arriving in the next couple of years). I'm 22 now, but I fully expect there to be a viable option to restore a full head of hair for everyone suffering from MPB by the time I'm my dad's age. Of course I want something sooner, and I'm very optimistic. Our children will probably never have to deal with this. These are very exciting times. I say we all just hang in here and remain positive.

[UK_]

Lulz wish I could share your hope.

Unfortunately I've been in this game far too long to know a magic pill/injection will most likely not be the answer - however - a surgical procedure like that of Dr Gho's http://www.hasci.com/ seems far more viable. Or something where they can inject multiplied cells in donor and transplant them into recipient, the cure (term used loosely) will come in the form of an evolution of hair transplants not a "eureka!" moment with some magic pixie dust.

[Dasani]

I'm honestly surprised that 50 new hairs per cm^2 isn't more impressive to people. For those who are just beginning to thin, this is already a 'cure'. Provided the results last for years (which they already appear to do, and Dr. Gail Naughton seems to think will probably last decades) and can be repeated if and when your hair starts to thin again.

Best of all its not something you have to do every day. I go to the dentist once a year or so to make sure my teeth don't fall out. I can certainly live with going to a doctor once a decade to make sure my hair doesn't fall out.

57 hairs actually

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4366&page=16

I'm really excited to see if they can compound this with more injections. Even if it doesn't however and the product only grows a net gain of 50 hairs and stops any further loss (while thickening up surrounding follicles) that's already a product that renders rogaine and propecia obsolete (provided it doesn't cost a quarter million dollars)

[Jundam]

I'm with Dasani on this one. As I said earlier if Histogen is actually activating dormant follicles and resetting their lifespan then it is most likely just a matter of discovering what dosage and amount of injections is required to activate all of them and produce a full head of hair. The only other factor would be maintenance but anecdotal evidence from the safety trial patients showed that even two years after(which is the last report we got from Ziering) the patients were not seeing any signs of their results wearing off. Which fits with their predictions of HSC not just promoting hair growth but also resetting the lifespan of the follicles.

Personally I don't understand why people put their hope in a guy like Gho who has never delivered on any of his claims and seem perfectly fine with not proving anything this time around either.

[carloseduardo]

Hi, is the realease date for this treatment still 2015?

[Jundam]

There's no release date set. All they've said is 2013 in Asia at the earliest. Release in the rest of the world would depend on the various regulations in each zone. But right now any release dates are pure speculation.

[CAlex]

TERMIS Asia Pacific Meeting 2011

Schedule > TERMIS-AP 2011 > 3 August, Wednesday > 1100-1230 Concurrent Sessions and Symposia 1 > Session 1.2 Biomaterials I
Updated in 7/28/2011 3:24:52 PM Viewed: 19 times (Proceedings)
Tissue Engineering and Regenerative Medicine International Society Aisa Pacific Meeting 2011
Human Tissue Engineered Soluble ECM Stimulates Hair Growth While Inhibiting Cancer Cells
GK Naughton
ABSTRACT
Research has shown the importance of Wnt 7a, follistatin, and wound healing growth factors on the stimulation of bulge cells and inter-follicular stem cells to induce hair growth. We have developed a bioengineered human cell-derived formulation, termed Hair Stimulating Complex (HSC), consisting of such growth factors and morphogens. These factors are secreted neonatal fibroblasts seeded on microcarrier beads grown in suspension cultures under hypoxic conditions simulating the embryonic environment. Under these conditions over 5000 genes are differentially expressed as compared to normoxia and follicular stem cell surface markers are expressed, including LnX2, SOX 21, Nestin, NFATc1, and Krt 15.Following preclinical safety and efficacy studies in the C57Bl model, a clinical pilot study was undertaken. The double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized single site trial was primarily designed to evaluate safety of the HSC product with efficacy being the secondary goal. Data analysis indicated that HSC is safe and showed effectiveness in stimulating hair growth in subjects with male-pattern baldness. All subjects tolerated the procedures well and no adverse reactions were reported. The improvements from HSC treatment were significantly greater than that observed in placebo treated sites: hair shaft thickness (6.3% + 2.5% vs. -0.63% + 2.1%; p = 0.046), thickness density (12.8% + 4.5% vs. -0.2% + 2.9%; p = 0.028), and terminal hair density (20.6 + 4.9% vs. 4.4 + 4.9%; p = 0.029). Similar trends were seen at 52 wk, with total number of hairs increasing on the HSC-treated site. In addition, cancer lines have been “reprogrammed” by co-culture with embryonic ECM. Research with our embryonic-like soluble ECM has demonstrated its ability to diminish or eliminate tumor load in over 20 cancer cell lines, including melanoma, adenocarcinoma, colon cancer, glioma, mesothelioma, and prostate cancer, both in vitro and in two animal models. In the tumor chorioallantoic membrane (tumcam) model hECM significantly inhibited tumor growth with tumor mass being reduced in weight by up to 80%. In subcutaneous mouse experiments, tumor growth was also inhibited from 70-90% among the same cancer cell lines. The inhibitory affect is selective for malignant cells. Whereas most cancer therapies target rapidly dividing cells and not cancer stem cell, hECM has been shown to target both cell types through the upregulation of Caspase 9 which forces the cells into apoptosis.


thats the latest histogen update although Im not sure if it is still boasting 57 new hairs per cm2

[Jundam]

"Following preclinical safety and efficacy studies in the C57Bl model, a clinical pilot study was undertaken. The double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized single site trial was primarily designed to evaluate safety of the HSC product with efficacy being the secondary goal."

As far as I can tell that's just another presentation of the information collected from the phase I clinical trial, meaning the information that was released at the start of this thread. Most likely this was just a meeting to inform colleagues, partners or investors of their product.

[NeedHairASAP]

can somebody post histogen pictures? They seem to have less proof than the hated Gho.



I heard that 70 follicles per cm will create the appearance of full density, or a cosmetically pleasing density. is this true?



They don't seem to be telling us much more than they did two years ago and don't give the appearance of making much progress over the last two years




did they start phase II in asia yet? I thought they would be done with phase II before 2012?





if they are getting 57 hairs per cm from one injection...

1. how far of a radius from the injection does this hair grow? and how is that even possible?

2. why aren't they showing pictures? 57 hairs per cm is better than most hair trasnplant densities. Gho has offered some pretty dense stuff, see joling and wesley.... but even he says he can't do 70 hairs per cm during the first procedure..... so....