Histogen Update - Spencer Kobren Speaks With Dr. Craig L. Ziering

[Conpecia]

That is the most self-centered, ignorant statement I have ever read on this forum. Get lost you troll.

I forgot to add arrogant as well!

Yeah. Wow. Welcome to the leper colony, ya jerk.

Wallowing in self-pity and being a **** about it. Maybe your hair needs to go for you to gain some perspective, Conpecia.

Wow. What a bunch of trigger-happy, know-it-all assholes. Jundam, you want perspective, pal? I spent the bulk of my first 18 years on this planet a tall, fat, shy, awkward, Monty Python-obsessed UGLY duckling who didn't even kiss a girl until college. And when I was 18, the absolute LAST thing I gave a **** about in life was my receding hairline. That anxiety didn't hit me until my early 20's, when people suddenly started saying, "Hey, you're a handsome guy. I'll GIVE YOU MONEY to wear this coat and stand around while this woman takes pictures of you. I'll throw in the coat, too."

Since you three are apparently too reactionary/moronic to connect the dots:

"Looking good" is how I put food on the god damn table and pay the bills.

And, unfortunately for me, in the minds of consumers, looking good = having a full head of hair.

So don't give me any bullshit about whining, ignorance, arrogance, or the like unless you're in the same boat. Tell me, Mlao, how exactly does your hair loss affect your desk job, or whatever the **** you do? Quantify it in dollars. Enlighten me. Oh, so it has no correlation at all to your ability live a prosperous, happy life, and you're just a vain bastard snooping around the baldness forums like the rest of us, eh?

In no way did I intend to imply that anyone on this forum was ugly, or that only good-looking people should worry about hair loss. The point I was trying to make without spilling out every detail of my life's story was that, in my opinion, and from my experience on both ends of the handsome fence, an actor/model/person-socially-expected-to-have-a-full-head-of-hair, has, in addition to the exact same psychological worries any balding man has, an external loss when MPB strikes, and perhaps it's a harder fall than simply losing your locks when you're fixing MacBooks for a living. Does baldness still suck in either case? Of course. Is it measurably worse for one than the other? Rudimentary logic seems to dictate that it is.

In other words: Get the **** off my back, you narrow-minded, conclusory ****s. I'll not speak on this issue again. Moving on:

Pity there was no formal assessment of efficacy at 2 years, I think most of us were hanging out for that. I know I was.

I like the idea of another set of injections at 6 weeks to "capture more follicles in an inductive state".

I'm totally on board with giving more injections at the 6 week mark. The positives I'm taking from this update are that it's still safe and the regrown hairs are persisting at the 2 year mark. Wonder what the prerequisites are for giving a "formal assessment of efficacy"...

[stillinHS1994]

U said that when u were 18 the last thing u cared about was your receding hairline. So what your saying is that you started losing hair when you were 18? In other words wat nw are u conpecia? If u dont mind me asking...btw do u have a degree of some sort that you can make money with if the whole modeling thing doesnt work out ...cuz I wuld have to agree..that sux if u make your living with your looks

[mlao]

Conpecia this is what you said;

"I agree, all I'm saying is it's worse to go bald if you're good-looking. An ugly guy goes bald, meh, wasn't really gonna get anywhere with looks to begin with, so why worry about hair loss?"

I was in commissioned sales and as I lost hair I became very self conscious about it and when guys I worked with would comment on it, it would ruin my day and effect my confidence when it came to dealing with customers.

For your information as well, I have been out of work for over two years and a lot of it has to do with the psychological pain caused by my hair loss.

I have never considered myself "good looking" but when someone says that a person like me doesn't have to worry about it because I wasn't going to get anywhere with my looks I have a right to get pissed off.

And if you want a little more info on my life the people I worked and went to school would sometimes tell me I was ugly to my face. I spent my first 5 years out of high school working a boring job, going home eating dinner and falling asleep to TV. No dates, no girlfriends. Suffice to say no has ever asked me to be a male model.

Hair loss effects us "ugly guys" just as much as the handsome people of this world and in some instances maybe more because we were never considered good-looking!

So if I offended you I'm sorry, but your statement offended me.

[Pate]

I'm totally on board with giving more injections at the 6 week mark. The positives I'm taking from this update are that it's still safe and the regrown hairs are persisting at the 2 year mark. Wonder what the prerequisites are for giving a "formal assessment of efficacy"...

I know it wasn't part of the planned study, but it seems strange. If they already needed to look at the treatment area for the safety evaluation, it doesn't seem a big step to just take a photo and count the hairs as well.

There's something else that doesn't add up here either. That's the second time I've seen the claim effects were seen within 2mm of the injection site, but you simply cannot grow 110 new hairs like Subject 009 in a circle of radius 2mm.

2mm radius is an area of 0.125 square cm or one eighth of a sq cm. If a non-balding human has 200-300 hairs per sq cm, that's only 25-40 hairs in 0.125 sq cm. So how could Subject 009 grow around three times his original pre-balding hair density? It's surely not possible.

Even 25 hairs per 2mm radius seems too high. Why would they be talking about a second set of injections if the first one 100% cured baldness in the affected area?

[krewel]

Well, how do you think women feel about Hair Loss? Actually I don't even want to know, must be horrible.

[mlao]

Well, how do you think women feel about Hair Loss? Actually I don't even want to know, must be horrible.

Agreed!
I hope since Histogen is run by a women that their research is focusing on women as well as guys.

[Jundam]

Blablabla

Are you suggesting we should have deducted that you made your living with your looks based on one idiotic statement after another containing no information even hinting at you being anything but full of yourself?

You got shit because you spewed shit. Don't put this on anybody else.

[jak385]

Even 25 hairs per 2mm radius seems too high. Why would they be talking about a second set of injections if the first one 100% cured baldness in the affected area?

I agree completely that this definitely needs some clarification. In that report linked to for the ISHRS meeting there is a very clear statement in the results section on page 26:

"Positive effects were seen within a 2mm distance of the 0.1cc injections, with an average of 25 new hairs being generated per injection."

That basically has to mean that 25 new hairs are produced within a 2mm radius right? Because if the positive effects only reached 2mm from the injection site, they couldn't be growing further out than that.

So either thats incredibly impressive and basically given enough injections over the entire scalp it would cure baldness, or I'm misunderstanding this? I know which of these two options I want it to be (baldness is cured huzzah!), and I also know which one it's more likely to be (i'm misunderstanding the findings ) so does anyone else understand the results/findings any better to help explain?

The only thing I can think of why they're trying more injections at six weeks is because they need to increase the diameter of positive effects because it's not cost effective for so many injections to be done over the entire scalp to produce enough hair? But if they increase the distance of new hair growth per injection then that would cause trouble for making a controlled new hairline right? This really has me confused...

[stillinHS1994]

^^Dude its got every1 confused

[Pate]

So either thats incredibly impressive and basically given enough injections over the entire scalp it would cure baldness, or I'm misunderstanding this? I know which of these two options I want it to be (baldness is cured huzzah!), and I also know which one it's more likely to be (i'm misunderstanding the findings ) so does anyone else understand the results/findings any better to help explain?

Logically, the only sensible conclusion is that the 2mm figure is wrong, because all the other info is self-consistent. Subject 009 could not have grown 110 hairs in a 2mm radius circle because that would be a density of around 900 extra hairs per square centimetre, compared to the normal non-balding human scalp of 200-300.

It may be that 2mm is the average figure and for some reason, Subjects 009 and 027 had a much wider radius of effect, or the 2mm figure could just be incorrect, although this is second time I've seen it in from them. Either way, 25 hairs in a 2mm radius means two things - HSC will effectively restore full hair density, but you will need a very large number of injections.

But I'm skeptical because like I said that would negate the need for the six-week follow up injections.

Spencer, if by chance you read this, please bring it up with Dr Ziering when you interview him!

The only thing I can think of why they're trying more injections at six weeks is because they need to increase the diameter of positive effects because it's not cost effective for so many injections to be done over the entire scalp to produce enough hair? But if they increase the distance of new hair growth per injection then that would cause trouble for making a controlled new hairline right? This really has me confused...

Well, no... the reason for the six week follow up injections is that they believe not all the follicles are in the inductive state at the same time. So HSC works on those follicles that are ready to generate hair, but six weeks later a whole bunch of new follicles may be ready to generate and they missed out on the HSC first time around, so more HSC is added.

Anyway, the acid test will be this bit:

"In addition, initial results in subjects receiving 50 injections/treatment show safety and efficacy at the initial 6 week timepoint."

Histogen should know within the next six months whether they have a marketable product or not, from whether this 50 injection trial restores cosmetically significant hair on a patch of scalp. If they do, the results should allow them to secure funding and then with any luck we will all be hirsuite ladykillers again.