The Shorn Identity

[jooder]

I think the reason some people have a problem with fixed by 35's arguments are because he changes the boundaries so often.
First he says bald men are ugly and arnt successfull.......so you show him a succesfull sportsman.......then he says sportsmen dont count. Then bald men dont get good sponsorship deals...........so you show him Michael Jordan........then he says bald black men are excluded too. He says practically all women in the world think bald is ugly.....so you post numerous links from dating forums where the response to 'is bald sexy?' is overwhelmingly positive. Then he generally doesnt reply but starts the same arguments in another thread.
He is entitled to his opinions.....yet often tries to present them as facts.... which they are not.

[Fixed by 35]

If you actually look carefully at dating sites, you'll notice women who say bald is sexy often also provide a hair preference which is not bald. My hunch is that they say bald is sexy in such an environment to avoid appearing shallow, even though there really is nothing shallow in disliking baldness. Society needs to stop calling people who choose partners based initially on looks shallow, because it is perfectly healthy to choose a partner you are attracted too.

I don't know of any white or Asian men who can carry off the bald look. I know of the examples others give, but so many of them suffer from an inability to match their appearance to their personality, unless they're a meat head.

The difficulty with the argument is that it is hard to pin point and there will always be exceptions. However, I'm interested in trends; celebrities are a particularly useless pool of data subjects because money talks and explains pretty much why they're an exception! As a general rule, the bald men I used to see on a daily basis were far more likely to be in menial work; likely to be single or married, rather than playing the field and generally a bit depressing to be around. The exceptions tended to be men who balded at an older age.

I'm worried that support groups try too hard to make people feel better rather than informed. It's the same as calling a retard 'special needs.' They're still a retard. There are lots of websites which say that men like fat women too if you want to find them, but I know that isn't true because the contrary is starkly obvious. The truth is hard to find; the only place I have found it is academic journals and observation, which does not bear out the happy nonsense you guys would like to believe.

[jooder]

"I'm worried that support groups try too hard to make people feel better rather than informed. It's the same as calling a retard 'special needs.' They're still a retard"

This line just about sums up your whole personality.

Yet another rambling post with no evidence to support your theory.
Ive grown tired of giving example after example to refute your ideas. The evidence is out there for all to see - successfull bald sportsmen, actors, businessmen, politicians. Bald men with good looking girlfriends......... basically, open your eyes and you will see

Fixed - I truly hope you can change your life for the better and begin to enjoy life. Do whatever you need to in order to live a more fruitfull existence...... maybe a hair transplant would be just the thing for you. I believe there are surgeons out there who can do a great, realistic job. After all, there must be more to life than moaning about every hair loss 'solution' there is. However, something tells me that even if you had a full head of hair, the world of 'fixed by 35' would still be negative.

[Fixed by 35]

Life was great before I started losing my hair, actually. I can pinpoint the day that life went from great to shit.

[25 going on 65]

Having skimmed over this back-and-forth, I will throw a few observations/ideas out.
First, there are definitely some balding men who look better shaved than when their Norwood is grown out. I don't think they all look ugly by any means; e.g. I actually think Jason Statham is a good-looking dude.
That said, the majority of men unfortunately can't pull off the "bald guy" look very well, and there are a lot of reasons for that. Fixed and I are in this category - we cannot shave our heads unless we want to lose more of our looks than we already have. So it's a choice of looking bad with hair loss, or looking worse with a wet shave.
Also, consider that even men who look OK bald look better with hair. At least in most peoples' opinions - and that's what it all comes down to. We are perceived and treated differently for the drastic change in our appearance that MPB has caused, which is why all of us dislike balding. It's the reason we're here - because among homosapiens, hair matters. Caring about hair is in our DNA to some extent (not just our minds), and if society really thought bald was beautiful, this forum would be a ghost town.

Um, where was I going with this? I guess I'll close by saying that I understand jooder's point - that life goes on with hair loss, and some balding men have been very successful. It IS possible to be bald and have a good life.
But I also understand where Fixed is coming from. Unlucky genes started taking our youth and looks from us in our early 20's, and there is no trendy "wet shave" option for us to fall back on. Either we have hair, or we look bad. And that's a really frustrating choice to have to make. In fact... it's not so much a choice made, as a dilemma faced.

[mlao]

Well said!

[Fixed by 35]

If I shaved my head, I would look like a bouncer, the only profession which requires more stupidity and neanderthal traits than a PE teacher. The only way around it would be that I could never again wear black I suppose!

There are other problems with a head shave. One is that the light reflects off your head, which is not a good look. Most men also have neck folds, which are not attractive. Even those who are alleged to look good wouldn't fare the same if they weren't rich and famous; the average bald bloke won't have a wardrobe of designer clothes to cover up their inadequacy.

Which is another problem being bald. If you buy nice clothes, people think you're compensating for something. If you want to wear a hat, people assume it's because you want to hide your baldness.

All this aside though, it's definitely the work involved in looking like a giant penis that stops me shaving my head (maybe that look is why some women like bald men)?!

[jooder]

Over on another hair loss forum there are pictures of a couple of men with or without hair......and the response has been mixed as to which is the best look. The fact that there is a mixed response on a site which is biased to keeping hair suggests that not all men look better with hair.
I tried to post links but it wont let me....... the site is hair loss help forums for anybody interested.

[25 going on 65]

I shouldn't have been so general. I'm sure there are men who, most would think, look better bald than with hair. But it seems these guys are the exception and not the rule; they either have all the right qualities for a wet shave, or they look weird with hair for some reason.
I guess a better way to phrase it is, "most people find most men more attractive with hair than without." I don't have a peer-reviewed scientific study to prove it, but I think we've all noticed it, even since before we were balding.
And in this situation, being a part of the majority sucks. Guys like me have no choice but to become less attractive, through no fault of our own. The only alternative is to intervene in what is taking our looks from us, and that takes some pretty drastic measures (lifelong rx drug use, wig-wearing, surgical transplants, etc.)

jooder, don't get me wrong. I truly respect the positive message you are putting out about balding, and I realize my personal situation makes me biased. I guess what I mean to say is that most balding men such as myself - who aren't as fortunate as you are in being able to pull off the shaved look - are fighting a somewhat different cosmetic/social/psychological battle. We stand to lose more to MPB than Jason Statham ever did.. we stand to lose our looks altogether, and in a very short time.
Most people aren't equipped to deal with that, but especially not most twenty-somethings.

[jooder]

I understand that some men dont 'suit' a bald, shaven look. I realise i am reasonably lucky. Yet i dont think of myself as attractive, probably average.....which is why i think the body language, confidence etc you portray is important.
Having said that, some men are unlucky.....they may have large protruding ears....or a out of proportion nose.......or both. Yet all these things can be fixed.
Men are willing to undergo hair transplantation and also the scarring that results. Facial surgery is also an option for men and doesnt leave any visable scarring.
It is often said that a good looking man with hair will still be a good looking man without......so by that theory it may be that average looking to not so good looking men fair poorly when they bald because they are losing their one 'selling point'.
As well as hair transplantation, medications etc......i have sometimes wondered why more men dont give themselves more 'selling points' by undergoing facial surgery. For example, ear lobe reduction takes 30 mins to an hour and costs less than a grand. Is that not money well spent to permanently add to your attraction?
People assume that top hollywood stars like Brad Pitt and Johnny Depp etc are just 'lucky'. There may be an element of luck and good genes for sure. But check early photographs, Brad Pitt had Obvious Protruding ears....now he doesnt, plenty of others have had nose jobs, teeth fixed.....you name it, prior to being famous. So basically they have worked at their looks to be where they are today.
I see no reason why the 'unfortunate' bald men shouldnt do the same.

[25 going on 65]

The appearance of confidence does matter. The way you act, bald or not, makes a huge difference in any kind of social interaction. But our aesthetic image is as much a part of our identity as our social behaviors and attitudes, and it plays a major role in how we're viewed and treated. We are hardwired to react differently to others based on whether we find them attractive, average or unattractive. And unfortunately, there are certain things that are almost always seen as more or less attractive - obese vs. healthy weight, bald vs. a full head of hair, etc. Most of us even feel drawn to faces that are within a certain range of mathematical proportions.
And unfortunately, a good-looking man with hair won't always be good-looking bald. With hair, I'm a handsome dude. Without it, I look a bit disfigured or sickly, almost like a caricature of myself. I know others in similar situations, and I imagine all of you do too, if you think about it.

Plastic surgery is a legitimate option for those ready to take that plunge. But when I say our image is part of our identity, 90% of that is above the neck - most of us aren't trying to look like someone else, we just want to look like ourselves if we'd kept our hair. Imagine going under the knife just to be able to wet shave - you'd not only face the loss of your hair but the permanent change of your face, and I think that would aggravate the anxieties we have about hair loss taking our looks. It seems a much more drastic thing to surgically morph your facial features than to restore some of the hair you once had.
Don't mistake me about cosmetic surgery though. Anyone who wants to change their features, I say go for it. It's just not necessarily a solution for many MPB sufferers like myself.

Forgive me for seeming like a downer, but I feel like balding guys in our position are not well understood. It's hard for others to grasp why we can't just "get over it" and how trapped we really are in facing a sudden and massive change for the worse in our lives.

[jooder]

Fair enough.... youve made your point well. Perhaps i approach things differently. I guess im quite competitive..... i dont think anybody is better than me, we are all human and we only have one life, and im not being second best to anybody. I hope you make a decision thats right for you and go full throttle with it

[25 going on 65]

You seem like the type who stays focused on improvement and making the best of things.. taking the situation for what it is and deciding the best next step. I respect that quality, and am trying to take it on as well as I can, despite random things popping up and pushing it to the limit (like premature MPB ) At the same time, I hope for others to comprehend how seriously alopecia can impact people's lives beyond their control.
One thing's for sure. The world keeps turning, whether we opt in or out. I guess the real question is always, "what next?"

[gmonasco]

Life was great before I started losing my hair, actually. I can pinpoint the day that life went from great to shit.

I've known several people who said the same thing. What they all came to discover in retrospect was that their lives had already been sh*t for quite a while, and whatever occurred on that one fateful day was not the cause, but merely the crisis that prompted them into finally recognizing it.

[ohlife]

hmm nope, mine was definitely good! Still would be if I could fix that one, 'MINOR', problem.