Sebum and anti dandruff shampoos may slow or stop baldness? - BaldTruthTalk.com
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  1. #1
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    Default Sebum and anti dandruff shampoos may slow or stop baldness?

    I do not have any guarantees or medical studies regarding sebum build up and baldness. I will put this to all as perhaps a testimonial.

    Before I started losing my hair I had heavy dandruff. I washed my hair and it appeared gone. Last April I developed seborrhoreic dermatitis. My hair was falling out in clumps.
    I went to the dermatologist who prescribed Selenium Sulfide Shampoo 2.5%, Ketoconazole 2% shampoo and a topical steroid Clobetasol 0.05% Scalp Lotion.

    Since then I have used the shampoos regularly (at least 3 times a week) and even DHS Zinc 2%. So what I found out after 3 months is my hair has totally stopped, albeit 3 hairs a day. There is a yeast or mold in cases of seborrheic dermatitis. I put this theory out and that is that the anti dandruff shampoos remove dandruff, sebum and keep the scalp free from yeast disease that......is not readily obvious to the eye. You can't see the scalp infestion of yeast but sometimes symptoms. I believe that along with Clobetasol and antidandruff shampoos my baldness has stopped or been sharply reduced.

    I noticed about ten years ago I was using an anti dandruff shampoo OTC (sulphur 2% and Salicylic Acid 2% non prescription called Sebex) that my hair fall out wss less but did not think that shampoo was connected. I have used finasteride and minoxidil 5% for years. I will contiinue to use anti dandruff shampoos and Clobetasol, 3 times a week as long as I see benefit. I want to add have you seen a shiny bald head? I believe excess sebum contributes to baldness and treating the sebum as mentioned may work for others. The key for me is to leave the shampoos on the scalp for at least 15 minutes. I do not know the exact relationship between sebum and DHT but surmise there is one and somewhat negated with the aforementioned topical treatments.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by robodoc View Post
    I do not have any guarantees or medical studies regarding sebum build up and baldness. I will put this to all as perhaps a testimonial.

    Before I started losing my hair I had heavy dandruff. I washed my hair and it appeared gone. Last April I developed seborrhoreic dermatitis. My hair was falling out in clumps.
    I went to the dermatologist who prescribed Selenium Sulfide Shampoo 2.5%, Ketoconazole 2% shampoo and a topical steroid Clobetasol 0.05% Scalp Lotion.

    Since then I have used the shampoos regularly (at least 3 times a week) and even DHS Zinc 2%. So what I found out after 3 months is my hair has totally stopped, albeit 3 hairs a day. There is a yeast or mold in cases of seborrheic dermatitis. I put this theory out and that is that the anti dandruff shampoos remove dandruff, sebum and keep the scalp free from yeast disease that......is not readily obvious to the eye. You can't see the scalp infestion of yeast but sometimes symptoms. I believe that along with Clobetasol and antidandruff shampoos my baldness has stopped or been sharply reduced.

    I noticed about ten years ago I was using an anti dandruff shampoo OTC (sulphur 2% and Salicylic Acid 2% non prescription called Sebex) that my hair fall out wss less but did not think that shampoo was connected. I have used finasteride and minoxidil 5% for years. I will contiinue to use anti dandruff shampoos and Clobetasol, 3 times a week as long as I see benefit. I want to add have you seen a shiny bald head? I believe excess sebum contributes to baldness and treating the sebum as mentioned may work for others. The key for me is to leave the shampoos on the scalp for at least 15 minutes. I do not know the exact relationship between sebum and DHT but surmise there is one and somewhat negated with the aforementioned topical treatments.
    I had similar experience and i only used over the counter Selenium Sulfide(brand name Selsun Blue) and Ketoconazole(brand name Nizoral) both are only 1% so much lower than your prescription, didn't use Clobetasol though. Selenium sulfide kills skin yeast all over the body( it also treats the skin condition called tinea versicolor which is very common in humid climates ) while keto does the same job but it also improves blood circulation to the scalp.

  3. #3
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    Default More on Dandruff/sebum

    This was a quote from a Ray Peat PhD forum: think sebum/dht is a cause?

    "Also Fungus on scalp make PUFA... which might create enough inflammation to locally trigger hair loss. Which stinks because avoiding dietary PUFA doesn't stop those stinkers from making it.
    Isolation and Expression of a Malassezia globosa Lipase Gene, LIP1 - ScienceDirect
    And if androgens increase sebum production, that could be a possible explanation for male pattern baldness... Malassezia"

    I say try a good antidandruff shampoo for a 3 months and see if it helps. What do you have to lose? Leave on the scalp for 10-15 minutes is what I do.

  4. #4
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    Here is some more on skin microbiota:

    At least three pathways have been found to be of importance to sebaceous gland development. These pathways are the Wnt signaling pathway, the c-myc signaling pathway, and the hedgehog signaling pathway (Fig. 2). Wnt signaling occurs through the stabilization of β-catenin. Mice with mutations in β-catenin, which decrease Wnt signaling through a binding defect in β-catenin, have an increased number of sebaceous glands over normal mice (4). The next player in the sebaceous gland development pathway is c-myc. The Myc gene, which encodes the c-Myc protein, is a downstream target of the β-catenin/T-cell factor transcription factor. Transgenic mice overexpressing c-myc in the basal layer of skin have an increase in sebaceous gland size and number (5–7). In addition to the increase in sebaceous gland proliferation, there is a decrease in the number of hair follicles. The third pathway involved in sebaceous gland development is the hedgehog signaling pathway. Hedgehog protein family members mediate transcriptional effects through Gli proteins. Transgenic mice have been created for proteins along the hedgehog signaling cascade. The skin of mice with a gain-of-function mutation for hedgehog signaling was found to have an increase in the number of sebaceous glands associated with hair follicles as well as of ectopic sebaceous glands not associated with a hair follicle (8). It is also interesting that c-myc was found to be upregulated in the skin of mice with a gain of function of hedgehog signaling. These mice give evidence that these pathways are important for sebaceous gland development and that some cross-talk exists between these pathways.

  5. #5
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    Also based on some reported success, ie, Swiss Temples, it seems a multi drug/substance regimen albeit crude may work to stop baldness. Swiss Temple has outlined his technique which was good to hear someone used products that successfully stopped hair loss.....and grew new hair.

  6. #6
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    Stay on the Selenium. I see not many people have read my posts. It would be too easy to think controlling Malazzesia on the scalp would slow or stop baldness. I understand that but Selenium Sulfide in some studies shows it works again PGD2 and PDG2 is what some scientists say leads to baldness. So there may be 2 mechanisms, who really knows, that Selenium helps.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by robodoc View Post
    Stay on the Selenium. I see not many people have read my posts. It would be too easy to think controlling Malazzesia on the scalp would slow or stop baldness. I understand that but Selenium Sulfide in some studies shows it works again PGD2 and PDG2 is what some scientists say leads to baldness. So there may be 2 mechanisms, who really knows, that Selenium helps.
    I meant PGD2 in both instances. PGE2 is the good guy.

  8. #8
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    This is hot of the press and adds to my partial theory of AGA.
    "Microorganisms and byproducts (P. acnes, porphyrins) One study observed porphyrins in 58% of pilosebaceous canals in those with AGA versus 12% in non-AGA controls [107]. Porphyrins are a byproduct of Propionibacterium acnes (P. acnes), a commensal microorganism found in the skin biome which colonize sebaceous ducts, ingests sebum, and are implicated in acute inflammation and acne onset [108]"
    So you have bacteria involved in the inflammation process! hello, anti dandruff shampoos might be participatory in slowing AGA or in my case stopping it. Do you all need anymore impetus?

  9. #9
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    This is a longer explanation of previous post..current studies say the scalps of balding men: fibrosis, inflammation, calcification or arteries, less oxygen and some other factors. Here is one of the most interesting "other" factors: scalp tension. If you are balding there is a correlation with AGA and scalp tension. I think most investigators will say that there is a number of physiological changes in the scalp of AGA sufferers but which is causative and what are associative?

    "Modeling an androgen-inflammation feedback loop
    AGA sufferers often also present increased sebum, bacterial colonies, and porphyrins in AGA-affected tissues. Studies on androgen insensitive subjects imply that androgens regulate sebum production [77]. Commensal bacteria like Propionibacterium acnes (P. acnes) feed off of sebum [78] and can colonize sebaceous glands with excess sebum production more readily due to an increased food supply. As P. acnes metabolizes sebum, it produces porphyrins [79] and “proteins likely to play a role in host-tissue degradation and inflammation” [80] via ROS [81] and the activation of pro-inflammatory cytokines – namely, interleukin 1 alpha (IL-1α) and tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNF-α) [82]. In cases of sebaceous gland over-colonization, P. acnes is pathogenic".

    "Our model suggests that androgen activity increases from tension-mediated inflammation. In this case, the colonization of fungi like dermatophytes [83] or bacteria like P. acnes – both of which colonize sebum-rich environments – may create a feedback loop between androgen activity, pathogenic microorganisms, and AGA-related inflammation (Fig. 2)."

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