Morr-F (Minoxidil/Fin) what do peope here know about this? - Page 2 - BaldTruthTalk.com
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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GroughBack View Post
    If it was a snake oil, I would call it a snake oil. I am using it and growing hair like crazy, If it wasn't working I'd say "don't waste your time". I use a shower cap and sleep with it on.
    And lol I find it funny how you posted your pics on their amazon reviews. You're either affiliated with the company or getting $ for ur reviews. Shill

    https://www.amazon.com/review/review...sin=B00KEG85DE

  2. #12
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    You don't even make sense, if I lose my hair from it I post reviews and picts too, does this make me affiliated? Even if I were getting free products, which I'm not, Why would I want them if they don't work? Of course not! No, I am excited you would be too! It doesn't make sense to me why when anything other than prescriptions and drugs are working, the worst is assumed. I am just an average guy with an average job, who has a routine thats working for me. I'm trying to be helpful. I have at least 10 friends on fin, and its not really working for them, so I decided to go another route and it is working.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by GroughBack View Post
    You don't even make sense, if I lose my hair from it I post reviews and picts too, does this make me affiliated? Even if I were getting free products, which I'm not, Why would I want them if they don't work? Of course not! No, I am excited you would be too! It doesn't make sense to me why when anything other than prescriptions and drugs are working, the worst is assumed. I am just an average guy with an average job, who has a routine thats working for me. I'm trying to be helpful. I have at least 10 friends on fin, and its not really working for them, so I decided to go another route and it is working.
    Studies please

  4. #14
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    Use in androgentic alopecia

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2840915/

    Very few studies exist to support the claims of its efficacy. In a small study of 10 males with AGA (23-64 years) on oral SR, improvement was seen in 60%.[1] In a study of 34 men and 28 women (18-48 years) topically applied SR extract in lotion and shampoo base for three months led to 35% increase in hair density and 67% increase in sebum reduction assessed by sebometry, pH metry, hydration studies and phototrichogram (study presented at the fourth intercontinental meeting of hair research societies, June 17-19, 2004).[2] Addition of extract of 0.5% SR to ketaconazole shampoo was shown to give better results compared to ketaconazole alone (presented at the 13th Annual meeting of the European Hair Research Society, Genoa, Italy).[3]

    The problem is that Saw Palmetto is not taken seriously, so when these study's are presented at meetings like this (study presented at the fourth intercontinental meeting of hair research societies, June 17-19, 2004). The Dr's unfortunately are laughed at and discredited, this makes study's like these all that more accurate, as Dr's would prefer to see no results at all with products of this nature.
    Please provide a Study that shows topical Fin increasing density by 35% in three months. If one exists it will be very well funded, and easy to find, since the Dr's involved will not be criticized for having their name on it.

    I'm just doing what works, because I'm not going to take the road that I know for sure does not. Again 10 friends taking fin, not one of them is all that happy with their results. one of us(me) using SP, nutrition and massage, is very happy with their results, and they continue too!
    You don't have to do anything different, I am not necessarily telling you or anyone else they do. I just hope that people don't immediately jump on the Fin bus, because my best guess is that will take them to the same place as my 10 friends. Disappointed

    Here's what i've learned of SP it is absolutley essential that it is CO2 extrated. It is virtually worthless if its not. This is what is used every single time in any study involving SP. I had to learn this on my own. Why is that?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GroughBack View Post
    Use in androgentic alopecia

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2840915/

    Very few studies exist to support the claims of its efficacy. In a small study of 10 males with AGA (23-64 years) on oral SR, improvement was seen in 60%.[1] In a study of 34 men and 28 women (18-48 years) topically applied SR extract in lotion and shampoo base for three months led to 35% increase in hair density and 67% increase in sebum reduction assessed by sebometry, pH metry, hydration studies and phototrichogram (study presented at the fourth intercontinental meeting of hair research societies, June 17-19, 2004).[2] Addition of extract of 0.5% SR to ketaconazole shampoo was shown to give better results compared to ketaconazole alone (presented at the 13th Annual meeting of the European Hair Research Society, Genoa, Italy).[3]

    The problem is that Saw Palmetto is not taken seriously, so when these study's are presented at meetings like this (study presented at the fourth intercontinental meeting of hair research societies, June 17-19, 2004). The Dr's unfortunately are laughed at and discredited, this makes study's like these all that more accurate, as Dr's would prefer to see no results at all with products of this nature.
    Please provide a Study that shows topical Fin increasing density by 35% in three months. If one exists it will be very well funded, and easy to find, since the Dr's involved will not be criticized for having their name on it.

    I'm just doing what works, because I'm not going to take the road that I know for sure does not. Again 10 friends taking fin, not one of them is all that happy with their results. one of us(me) using SP, nutrition and massage, is very happy with their results, and they continue too!
    You don't have to do anything different, I am not necessarily telling you or anyone else they do. I just hope that people don't immediately jump on the Fin bus, because my best guess is that will take them to the same place as my 10 friends. Disappointed

    Here's what i've learned of SP it is absolutley essential that it is CO2 extrated. It is virtually worthless if its not. This is what is used every single time in any study involving SP. I had to learn this on my own. Why is that?
    Study 1: invalid; sample size is too small. If you took a basic stats class or looked at enough studies in medical journals at MINIMUM there needs to be a sample size of 20 to make valid and sound statistical conclusions. This study only has half that number so it's garbage.

    Study 2: the only valid one I see.

    Study 3: again bad study example as the treatment group used a ketoconazole shampoo that had saw palmetto but it also contained taurine. Who's to say taurine did not play a role?

    The point is I could pull up a 5 year finasteride study (official propecia studies) with over 1000 participants showing roughly 85% of users maintaining/regrowing hair.

    I could also pull up a a 10 year finasteride study (Rossi et al) with over 100 participants showing roughly 85-90% maintained/regrew.

    Your anecdotes of "10 friends" means nothing when there are numerous studies with literally thousands of participants in controlled settings.

    To add more fuel to the fire you can get a years supply of fin at Walmart for $24. Your hairmetto stuff costs $70 bux for a 3 month supply and is in the realm of unproven treatments.

    Listen, I'm not here to argue. I would just hate to see a young 18 year old kid with hair loss come here and read your posts thinking he's found the cure and a year later be out almost 300 bucks and with less hair. I was a young hair loss sufferer too and initially dabbled with snake oils cuz I didn't know any better and lost lots of hair in the process.

    I do hope you have success and if it is working for u- great but don't peddle that stuff around here to people as if it's the next ground breaking cure.

  6. #16
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    Thank you.

    But you are arguing with me, you asked to see a study for topical Saw Palmetto, so I did. I asked you to provide one for topical Fin and you did not.

    Here it is another:

    Morganti-P; Fabrizi-G; James-B; Bruno-C. Effect of gelatin-cystine and serenoa repens extract on free radicals level and hair growth. Journal-of-Applied-Cosmetology. 1998; 16(3): 57-64

    ABSTRACT: The influence of gelatin-cystine and serenoa repens on hair growth was studied through a long period application (50 weeks) of a new cosmeceutical lotion. On 48 volunteers (24 women and 24 men) aged between 21 and 38 years, affected by androgenetic alopecia (type III and IV according to Hamilton). 12 subjects also took a diet supplement (4 pills per day) based on gelatin-cystine. The solution and the diet supplement (placebo and active) were assigned in a randomized double-blind manner. Hair mass and the mean hair number were controlled according to Price et al. Exclusion criteria included use of topical or oral drug or diet supplement within the previous six months. The obtained results showed an increase of hair mass from 20 to 30% (p<0.005) together with a contemporary increase of hair number (from 17 to 27%) (p<0.005) compared to the placebo for subjects using the lotion only. With the diet supplement a further increase of 50% (p<0.005) in hair growth and a significant decrease of blood ROS (Reactive Oxigen Species) were obtained.

    My head that I look at every day confirms the study was just fine!

  7. #17
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    And if your among this supposed 85 %, then would love to see before and afters. because I would hate to be the 18 y/o kid that's taking advice, from someone who believes that expensive study's provide more proof than mirrors. There's a river in Egypt John what it called? De Nile

  8. #18
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    Finasteride


    Saw Palmetto


    CO2 extraction is key link below

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4847595/

    You shouldn't have to see this from me John, you could be proud to post picts, if someone had told you.

  9. #19
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    LOL

    Why did topical fin even enter the convo? I was only talking about oral fin and now cheap/effective it is. I never brought topical fin up, jazz did. Merck even tested topical fin. It does work. However, its likely mechanism is through systemic absorption. However, there has recently been an Italian company that invented topical fin in nanospheres that works without systemic absorption (science works BRO). Anyway, mr. Anti big pharma, here is a list of studies I pulled up thru pubmed in a matter of minutes. There's plenty more where that came from.

    1. Design of Finasteride-Loaded Nanoparticles for Potential Treatment of Alopecia.

    2. Topical minoxidil fortified with finasteride: An account of maintenance of hair density after replacing oral finasteride.

    3. Effects of a novel finasteride 0.25% topical solution on scalp and serum dihydrotestosterone in healthy men with androgenetic alopecia.

    4. A novel finasteride 0.25% topical solution for androgenetic alopecia: pharmacokinetics and effects on plasma androgen levels in healthy male volunteers.

    5. Topical formulations containing finasteride. Part II: determination of finasteride penetration into hair follicles using the differential stripping technique.

    6. Efficacy and safety of 3% minoxidil versus combined 3% minoxidil / 0.1% finasteride in male pattern hair loss: a randomized, double-blind, comparative study.

    AND heres one just for you (fin vs saw palmetto head to head). No surprise fin BLOWS away saw palmetto.

    7. Comparitive effectiveness of finasteride vs Serenoa repens in male androgenetic alopecia: a two-year study.

    BOOM

    If you're not convinced double blind peer reviewed studies are not enough then there's no convincing you in regards to anything. These kind of studies are the hold standard in the scientific field.

    If you're so anti " big company", "big pharma", "big studies" go and drop your minox. There are way too many studies showing it's efficacy and just stick to your hairmetto lol. Lets see where u end up.

    If anything saw palmetto is not a DHT inhibitor in the least. If you believe so, show me a study that it inhibits serum dht values. Merck already tested it when they were developing finasteride IT DOESN'T lol. The only action it may have is a very weak androgen receptor blocker. And lol at the studies you post. Half of them are in-vitro test tube trials.

    You're asking for pics, just do a quick search on this site and you'll find loads of results. Heck, look at spencer on his live show he's been using fin for over 20 years. How much more ANECDOTAL results do u want (since that's what u crave over data).

    Btw, heres a link to the 10 year fin study WITH PICS showing efficacy.
    http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/down...Yr_%202011.pdf

    It's ok don't cry now groughback

    You're a shill for that company and your pics on their amazon page with your fake review proves it. Go peddle your snake oil elsewhere.

    Yala Habibi groughback!

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=12CeaxLiMgE

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by GroughBack View Post
    Finasteride


    Saw Palmetto


    CO2 extraction is key link below

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4847595/

    You shouldn't have to see this from me John, you could be proud to post picts, if someone had told you.
    While I'm no doctor it's my understanding that most studies, including this one, are looking at Saw Palmetto's effects specifically within the prostate, and there are promising results there like this one.

    It seems like SP has been proven to lower DHT levels in the prostate but not as much as Fin, and not through the entire body (and thus scalp):

    "Men taking SPHB had a significant decrease in prostate tissue levels of DHT from baseline to 6 months of treatment (p = 0.005). However, this reduction was not statistically significant when compared to the placebo group. The 6-month decline in DHT for the SPHB group was 32%. In comparison, the finasteride effect on prostate tissue levels of DHT was an 80% reduction compared to untreated men. Treatment with SPHB led to no changes in prostate tissue levels of T or in serum levels of T or DHT. Of particular interest, serum levels of prostate-specific antigen (PSA) decreased by approximately 50% in men taking finasteride compared to no change in men taking SPHB."

    Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...eport=abstract

    (I hate that I couldn't find the full version available anywhere for free- sorry about that)

    There's another study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23298508) that shows SP helped 38% of men who were losing hair vs 68% with Finasteride, with SP relatively better for mild loss and Finasteride relatively better for moderate/severe loss.

    So yes, I do believe SP helps and it's certainly worth trying out if you are afraid of the sides from Fin and/or your hair loss is mild, but it really doesn't seem like it's helps more than Fin does.
    I am a representative for Dr. Sean Behnam in Los Angeles, CA.
    My opinions are my own.

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