HASCI analysis w/ photos - results - BaldTruthTalk.com
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 44
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    126

    Default HASCI analysis w/ photos - results

    It's nearing the end of our analysis, perhaps the most comprehensive to date of dr. Gho's method. This procedure for 800 grafts was done in May 2015, by a dr., in Netherlands. I'll try to break in the facts in logical order.

    Note: For image viewing, don't use any of Windows' standard image viewers, as they cause pixelation. Use some other, such as the browser's image viewing capability or Picasa.



    First you must look how my donor was doing just following the procedure:

    Left side link with an added image just in case.

    Right side link with also an added image.



    As you can see, the donor area was obtained from 2 separate, disjoint parts. I asked them to do it, and they agreed, as it *may* be a useful thing for doing the otherwise prohibitively difficult analysis.
    So then, next I would look at the images above to see if I could locate every wound site on my donor in a set of pictures, which I shot only 5 weeks before my trip to the Netherlands:

    Left side

    Right side



    So there you'll see all of those wound sites marked in the donor area, in its previously untouched state, since we will need to know where the supposed regeneration is expected to take place. It can be a bit tricky at first to get a sense of how the photos are connected, but by looking at the red borders, you know where one picture ends and another begins. Every wound site is represented here by a blue circle. Let's not bother with the other stuff yet.

    After healing, at a few weeks most of the donor sites should be regenerating hair (according to dr. Gho). At 3 months, the donor is known to have regenerated all the hair it can. I waited almost an extra month (3 months and 3 weeks, to be exact) before shooting photos again of the donor area. Here are those photos:



    Left side

    Right side

    (If the files are too big to preview, just click "download file". )


    The red lines are the same as in the "before procedure"-pictures. I noted the results in an excel charts file:

    Charts link

    To make the chart a little easier to deal with, I composed a grid where all of our analyzed hair-units are divided into groups of 4 units, so you should find 4 circles (blue) inside almost every area of the grid (green). The excel chart lists how many hairs in total we saw in each group before the HASCI procedure, and how many hairs we saw after. For example, in group B15, we saw a total of 11 hairs before the procedure, and 9 hairs after, so that confirms 3 hairs lost in group B15.

    Result
    I could make observation of 4354 hairs appearing at before the procedure. I could verify no more than 3248 after-procedure. This means that, if one subtracts from the sites where there was more hairs after than before the procedure, we get the result of 4354 - 3248 + 137 = 1243 donor hairs lost.



    RECIPIENT

    Now, the recipient part is much more complicated to manage & count. To make the directest comparison on the recipient before the procedure, and after, one would rather have to leave tattoos on one's scalp. I shot very good pictures also of the recipient before the procedure, btw, but in my recipient analysis I got more benefit from use of the known wound sites.

    Left recipient temple analysis

    Right recipient temple analysis



    The wound sites (green circles) are here labeled and we observe many angles to get a verification of 1461 hairs growing out in 859 wound sites in recipient. (HASCI said 801 grafts were won.) The number charts for each side are found at the right edges of the image files.


    There are occurrances when previously existing hairs and the implanted hairs overlap into our result. Any hairs which grow very near to the wound sites may be mistaken as new hairs and interpreted as a positive result, even if they had existed there previously before the procedure. But we all want to know about the regeneration rate, don't we?



    REGENERATION RATE


    We must conclude that no more than 1461 recipient hairs were gained.
    And we formerly already observed that 1243 donor hairs were lost.

    The regeneration rate is not more than +17,5 %. (1461 divided with 1243 is always ~ 1,175.) With many tiny bruises, blood clots, and superficial wounds inflating the result, I'm surprised it's not even higher than 17,5 %. To go more specific, we'd have to become increasingly able to separate existing hairs and new hairs through the pictures which were taken before procedure.



    All of this, my own doing, and I have received no assistance from anyone else in completing the effort.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Arashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    3,888

    Default

    Congratulations with the completion of your analysis !

    Just so I understand correctly, in the recipient you only compared the post-op pics (showing the wounds) to the final results, right ? So any hair that was growing close to a wound most likely will have been counted as a regrown hair, that's what you mean with "Any hairs which grow very near to the wound sites may be mistaken as new hairs and interpreted as a positive result", right ? In that case that 17.5% 'regrowth' makes sense (it's most likely just hair that already was there).

    Too bad we can't do a 100% perfect analysis. But when we keep in mind that 17.5% regrowth is really the best case scenario and that you'll have counted hair that was already there as regrowth, then most likely the "regrowth" is indeed a negative number and it's just a FUE like we've all been expecting it to be.

    Anyway a couple of years after my HST I'm now sometimes starting to consider another transplant. Of course I'm not going back to those scammers at HASCI (we can now safely call them that, you've undeniably proven that much). Not sure yet which doc I'll go to, need to do some research into good FUE docs.

    Anyway, again, great work !

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    126

    Default

    Yes, the post-op pics were compared exclusively to the wound pics, and it demonstrates
    that there were not more than 1461 new hairs growing from the observed wounds.

    Better look at a small study which I did on 100 wounds:

    Link to study



    It says for 100 wound places, there are 168 hairs seen post-op. We discover by looking at the pre-op picture, that of those 168 hairs, 55 hairs were there already before the procedure. That means one third of the 168 hairs existed there pre-op. Imagine, if one third of all the counted recipient hairs are hairs from before the procedure! That would mean only 964 hairs in total were gained from a procedure, which cost me in total 1243 donor hairs, right?? (I hope that is the worst case scenario!)

  4. #4
    Senior Member Arashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    3,888

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlmostUndone View Post
    Yes, the post-op pics were compared exclusively to the wound pics, and it demonstrates
    that there were not more than 1461 new hairs growing from the observed wounds.

    Better look at a small study which I did on 100 wounds:

    Link to study



    It says for 100 wound places, there are 168 hairs seen post-op. We discover by looking at the pre-op picture, that of those 168 hairs, 55 hairs were there already before the procedure. That means one third of the 168 hairs existed there pre-op. Imagine, if one third of all the counted recipient hairs are hairs from before the procedure! That would mean only 964 hairs in total were gained from a procedure, which cost me in total 1243 donor hairs, right?? (I hope that is the worst case scenario!)
    I think the explanation is here that in other area's not much hair pre-existed, so the actual number will be better than that almost 20% hairloss you'd calculate like that. I think the average FUE has about 5-8% hairloss, I'd guess that HASCI is also in that region. But at this point we can only guess about the exact hairloss as a result of a HST. We'd need HASCI to cooperate to do a test but they've been unwilling to do such a test in the past.

    Anyway, I think we can close the book on HASCI and move on.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi View Post
    Congratulations with the completion of your analysis !

    Just so I understand correctly, in the recipient you only compared the post-op pics (showing the wounds) to the final results, right ? So any hair that was growing close to a wound most likely will have been counted as a regrown hair, that's what you mean with "Any hairs which grow very near to the wound sites may be mistaken as new hairs and interpreted as a positive result", right ? In that case that 17.5% 'regrowth' makes sense (it's most likely just hair that already was there).

    Too bad we can't do a 100% perfect analysis. But when we keep in mind that 17.5% regrowth is really the best case scenario and that you'll have counted hair that was already there as regrowth, then most likely the "regrowth" is indeed a negative number and it's just a FUE like we've all been expecting it to be.
    We'll see.... if I might get some more work done the way you saw with the pre-op pics. With some time and dedication, we wouldn't be far off from your "perfect" analysis.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    126

    Default

    216 of our 1461 total recipient hairs are not new:

    Link to comparison


    I did almost the entire right side of the recipient as far as I could with just a few pics, comparing post-op (left) to the pre-op (right) situation. This leaves 520 of 859 wound sites left to analyze where-ever possible.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    493

    Default

    it looks like you gave it a time & hard work to demonstrate again that they are abusing people (patients) with false claims.

    what is next, then?

    I got a procedure in 2012, if what you say is correct and verified, I was abused (and so were so many)
    How come they still can expand, have their techniques patented, more clinics opening?

    How come there were no lawsuit yet! we are not speaking about little money here, people accepting to pay almost 10.000€ for a concept and a solution and being abused and used for what is in real an FUE?

    One could also argue that people debunking HST are from the other side (competitors, other clinics) and that it is in their interest to claim that HASCI are scammers (but you seem to bring evidences, when they yet haven't brought us any amazing transformation pictures with some patient receiving multiple procedure.... I remember Dr Gho telling that they even had a patient who got 8 procedures)

    My question is, what do we do with all that?
    IF they are not providing 80-85% regeneration, they just lied and abused us.

    What is next?

    I want to believe in them but they are less transparent then you are with all your documented work!!!

    I feel like doing another one, but this forum always managed to hold me back!!!

    But then, if we have all the cards, why don't we ask our money bacK?
    I mean, the population who can afford HST can afford lawyers, no? how come they can still run a business if it's a big lie, I d'ont get it!!!
    And how come a lawsuit was not yet finishing it, seeing the huge amount of complaining people and proofs, now!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Arashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    3,888

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caddarik79 View Post
    I mean, the population who can afford HST can afford lawyers, no? how come they can still run a business if it's a big lie, I d'ont get it!!!
    And how come a lawsuit was not yet finishing it, seeing the huge amount of complaining people and proofs, now!
    But how do you do this ? They can always say "ok, maybe it did not work due to some reason for this particular client, but look at out publicized research, showing it DOES work". What do you do then ? I don't really see a good way of going after them with lawyers, this seems really a complex case, you'd need to prove that they committed fraud with that research paper (which I'm pretty much 100% confident they did). But how do you prove that ? It's really a complicated case and it would cost a lot of money and even if you win, best case scenario to me seems they need to close business, I don't think that they have huge amounts of money left in their company to pay back that $10.000 to all their clients.

    So I'm at loss here. If you have a good idea, please let me know, I'd have no problems to invest a few thousand usd if it's a promising idea.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Arashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    3,888

    Default

    Although, I think the best vector of attack would be simply this picture: http://www.hasci-exposed.com/images/EA_032_circled.jpg

    In their research paper they posted that inlay picture where they show a photo "B1" where a part of the DP is being cut off and left behind, which is supposed to cause regeneration, according to their paper. I think it should be easy to prove that that's not even happening, just like in that photo from the petridish. Nothing left behind to regenerate = no regeneration, I think it's really as easy as that. Maybe a judge could force them to document petridish photo's for some indendent research group. But even then, man it seems like a complex case ... And HASCI could also try to mess it up by drilling incorrectly, to destroy part of the DP, so that they actually leave something behind. You'd then need to actually prove that the extracted part is dead, and how do you do that ?

    Really, I think a lawsuit is a no-go.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Arashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    3,888

    Default

    There's another way though, but that's also quite a bit of work. I emailed some time ago with the publisher of that magazine where HASCI published their 'research'. They said, if you think their research is wrong, feel free to send me a scientific article about your findings. So that's a possibility, write an academic article about AlmostUndone's research, send it to that magazine and try to kickstart a discussion that way. But most probably HASCI will simply not react ... So I'm also not sure if that's going to change anything.

    Also I talked a few years ago to one of the companies who started that case against HASCI (they went to the 'reclame code commissie', a Dutch advertisting regulator, where they lost their case against HASCI, because they simply ruled: HASCI showed scientifically in that paper that their procedure works. That the magazine never actually verified HASCI's research didn't matter to them). Anyway, that guy said that he thought the only way to go after HASCI was via: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medisch_tuchtcollege, that's a Dutch regulator who might be able to shut them down. But they are NOT going to help you to get your money back.

    It's kind of depressing but I don't think there's an easy way to go after them AND get your money back.

Similar Threads

  1. Terrible Sperm Analysis while on Finasteride for 3 months
    By Gjm127 in forum Hair Loss Treatments
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-26-2015, 11:19 AM
  2. Analysis of gc83uk's Donor - 2nd & 3rd HST Procedures
    By JJJJrS in forum Techniques in Possible Donor Regeneration and Multiplication
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: 02-01-2014, 07:03 PM
  3. Cotsarelis/Garza Genetic analysis
    By HairlossAt15 in forum Cutting Edge / Future Treatments
    Replies: 72
    Last Post: 06-20-2013, 09:47 PM
  4. Conflicting analysis from two hair transplant surgeons
    By tdo in forum Men's Hair Loss: Start Your Own Topic
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-19-2012, 09:10 AM
  5. Cost/Benefit analysis of future treatments vs Micropigmentation
    By alanrudy in forum Cutting Edge / Future Treatments
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-03-2012, 11:24 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

» IAHRS

hair transplant surgeons

» The Bald Truth

» Recent Threads

Purple recipient area
Yesterday 02:48 AM
by etoos
Last Post By etoos
Today 10:05 PM
Being Told I'm Crazy.. M/22
Today 07:37 PM
Last Post By hairkid121
Today 09:22 PM
1900 FUE grafts with Dr. Rahal - So happy with my decision!
07-16-2018 12:08 PM
by jdp1989
Last Post By jdp1989
Today 07:59 PM
Am I starting to go bald or crazy?
01-05-2017 10:19 AM
by Sadmoon
Last Post By pkipling
Today 02:49 PM
Hair coming out easily when running my fingers through my hair
07-10-2018 01:33 PM
Last Post By pkipling
Today 02:39 PM