On Propecia for 10 years, photos, measurements, concerns and questions

[memoryboy]

Hi there!

I have been lucky to not have been cruising these forums for years and now Im back..

I first noticed my hair loss when I was 24. I got on Propecia in the fall of 2006. And have been on it for 10 years. There have been days, sometimes weeks and I think one or two times even a month or so, when I was off it but all in all I have been taking it for 10 years quite consistently.

My 36 years old brother has a bit receded hairline, like NW 2+ but not more. My father in the years of 60 has receded hairline maybe NW 3 but otherwise full head of hair. One of my grandfather from fathers side had Brad Pitt hairline with temples and all until 70. The other (mother side) grandfather was in NW 5 by that age. My uncle has full head of hair.

I think I started taking finasteride in the fall of 2006. I don't have exact records. Unfortunately I also don't have blood tests done before taking Propecia. I have semen test after a couple of months on it (done in unrelated reason).

I popped a 1mg each day pill and largely forgot about my hair loss problem. Did try Minoxidil a bit in the beginning but didn't stick to it. Didn't have anything else in my regimen besides occasional Nizoral.

I think largely my hair has stayed the same throughout my Propecia regime. I'm now 34.

I didn't grow back my temples though. So hairline has been receeded since I first noticed my hairloss. I think a few times I developed an itchy scalp and dandruff in the hairline and then each time that happened, I lost a bit more ground. Nizoral helped with that but I was always a bit late to get to it.

When I got on Propecia I think I was Norwood 2 and now I'm somewhere between Norwood 2 and 3. No hairloss for now at the crown.

I've got a lot of hair in the top and I have thick hair, so with my styling, so far I've been able to hide the receding hairline. At least somewhat and at least for those who are not hair loss sufferers themselves and not super conscious*about it. I haven't been able to choose many different hairstyle though. Always been sporting a*forelock of some kind.*

This was my hair in 2009 –*https://www.dropbox.com/s/itwi67rds6rs2y5/2008.jpg
This was my hair in 2015 –* https://www.dropbox.com/s/hpcgln5uh8k1t3v/2015.jpg

This is my hair right now –*https://www.dropbox.com/s/syvp18wo6w97z5x/2017.jpg
This is 2,5 months after quitting (or making a break in taking) Propecia. Before that I had gone from 1mg a day into 0,5 mg a day for 2 months. Hairline has definitely receded some more after quitting. The (regrown?) fuzzy hair before my high hairline is gone and it's definitely NW3 now. I think 2015 photos look slightly better as the hair was shorter but yeah, they were slightly better than after quitting for sure.

I don't know exactly about my possible side effects throughout my regimen. They definitely weren't bad enough for me to quit taking the medicine and I wasn't really informed. When I started taking it, not much information existed and doctors didn't warn me from anything. I thought I can always quit when anything goes awry. I think when I got on it, I didn't notice anything serious. Over time I noticed the watery semen. And smaller volume in ejaculation. I think libido was alright. I wasn't able to go second rounds in sex, but I didn't know whether I could be able to go anyway. I was a late bloomer and didn't have proper sexual intercourses before that. I had depressive periods and I've had fatique and emotional lability/lack of energy from time to time. But that's a long period of almost 10 years and I couldn't say whether Finasteride was to blaim. I certainly didn't think so. I had groin or testicle pain maybe a few times during that whole period of years.

Sometime last summer I found out there's a generic version, so I jumped onto that.

This summer I also got into a new relationship. Unluckily was a bit one down in the relationship at first, so I had some erection problems. I fought them by taking Viagra and Cialis and everything was fine. I found out I can a still go without that too, so I didn't worry to much. The proplems could have been psychological as well and I even think they were at least to some large extent. In any case, my erections seemed soft and not lasting enough without taking Viagra or Cialis and to be sure, I went to the doctor to get myself checked.*

To my surprise, I was told I had*prostatitis. I had no idea how long I've had it. I didn't notice any symptoms that I was able to connect to prostatitis myself. I was put on antibiotics for a month.

I quickly got some symptoms though too. Maybe I caught the disease early?
I needed to go to toilet frequently and even an night, felt the pressure to urinate often, got some pain and pressure in the abdomen and sometimes anus and in the groin and in the back.

I read there might be a connection for taking finasteride as a young man and developing*prostatitis later on in life. I also read about other stuff here, so I freaked out a little.

When prostate massage was performed to me, I was told it's swelled and uneven. The massage was very painful. I was told it shouldn't be.

Now, after 5 months my symptoms are somewhat lessen but they're still there.
I took antibiotics forma month. Then I took Flosin and Trimetop for some time. I can live with it but my symptoms are still there after 5 months.

When I went to the doctor in the fall, they also did blood tests as I asked.
FSH 6.7 (1.5 ... 12.4 U/L)
LH 3.93 (1.70 ... 8.60 U/L)
Free androgen index (FAI) > 100.00*↑ (35.00 ... 92.60 %)
S-SHBG 20.90 (18.30 ... 54.10 nmol/L)
Testosterone 22.49 (11.40 ... 27.90 nmol/L)
Estradiol*121.8 (>223.0 pmol/L)

Also my sperm quality was really bad. Not sure whether it was because of the infection in my prostate or because of finasteride or both. Probably both.


Some time after that I went onto 0,5mg daily Propecia and some time after that in December I stopped taking it.
At first it was because I suddenly realised none of the pharmacies in my country carry this any more. It suddenly had become a special medicine that needed a special clearance and with a warning. 5 mg Proscar was still available but I didn't have prescription for this. Then after becoming more and more aware, I though it would be good idea anyway to stop taking it or at least take a break.

To see what my hairloss will do, what my hormones will do and whether I'll recover.

A few weeks after stopping I did a new blood and sperm test. Just a week before it had been 10 times better. Still bad but now it was totally shit. Semen cells count was from 110 millions (10 years ago) to 16 million just before quitting finasteride to literally 1 million. And they were all defected.
Sperm test was total shit. I was pretty much infertile.

Blood tests as follows. Testosterone had plummeted. My testosterone was like a 50 years old or worse.*Correct? Estradiol has gone up. And other changes as well. This test is some weeks after quitting finasteride.

FSH 8.2 (1.4 – 18.1 lU/l)
LH 3.78 (1.5 – 9.3) lU/l)
Free androgen index (FAI) 15 – 95 (71.47)
S-SHBG 24 (17 – 66 nmol/l)
Testosterone 17.1 (8.4 – 28.7 nmol/L)
Estradiol*125.2 (>146.0 pmol/L)

This blood and sperm test is from 9 weeks ago. I will be making a new one tomorrow and with some more measurements.

Actually, even though I'v become more and more paranoid. I've had my morning and*spontaneous erections returning for some weeks now. I haven't had these for years.
Sure hope my measurements in*Testosterone and others have turned to the better. Fingers crossed. I still feel fatigue and have problems with my prostate. Also feel more and more depressed now with these problems.

I also have a chronic back problem with two discs that cause me pain 24/7 so it all adds up.

I'll have my next doctors appointments next week. I don't know if I want to be put on Propecia any more. I just hope I'll recover and get my hormones back in order.
Or should I consider going back on it and maybe taking 0,5mg any other day?

What choices do I have in terms of hair?
I've researched and was thinking to try Revivogen +*S5 Topical Spironolactone Cream?
As substitute for Finasteride. Any thoughts?

I was also researching hair transplant but I know this would be in the future to see where my hairloss is developing. I would definitely like to have a lower hairline but I would also be fine if it stays like this. For now it seems it's receeding more after quitting Finasteride. I'm still on Nizoral. Just some weeks after quitting Finasteride I developed a bad rash and redness with flaky skin in the hairline. And boom I had lost more ground.

I've never had super short hair in my life. If nothing works how do you cope with becoming bold in less than a year? I of course don't know how deep it develops. But it's especially sudden as because of my forelock and thick hair, most people haven't even noticed anything and everyone think I have great hair.

Also will probably start to take*Zinc, magnesium, vitamin B6 for my*Testosterone after my doctors appointments.

[wannamyhairback]

man i am sorry to hear that but i guess you should not take it again.your hair quality is good enough to have small hair transplant operation and to forget about hairloss for a while. Your testesterone level is really low and i hope you will get recovered from this. actually hearing from people like you makes me think twice what am doing now( i am in my sixth month on propecia) but as of now nothing can make me happier than what propecia gives me, it pretty much stopped my hairloss. Please keep us updated about your situation.

[Rizaan]

I would say you should stop taking propecia. Do you want all these problems to get worse just so you get to keep the hair you have? I know it's a very tough decision and you're going to have to decide what's best for you.
This is why i'm so scared of taking propecia.

Also, the photo you posted from 2008, are you sure that's a NW2? I always thought that would be a 3. But if you're right then I'm a NW1.5, instead of the NW2 - 2.5 i used to think.

[memoryboy]

The crazy thing is, that I didn't have any or had very little noticeable side effects while I was taking the dryg. And I had been taking it for so long, I didn't notice them.

My measurements were pretty Ok while I took the blood test in the fall, when I was still taking the drug. Estradiol was a bit hight but in range I guess.

After quitting the drug my measurements went haywire.

I will never touch this shit again never in my life.

I almost are looking forward to go balder as that would show my body is functioning again properly.

I will have new blood tests and doctors appointment next week. I'll let you know how it goes.

None of the doctors here acknowledge the problem and connection to finasteride really.
I'm from a small country.

I'm freaking out here and feel left alone.

Reading the Propeciahelp, I have a few other side effects I couldn't associate with the drug on my own.

God damn...

[Rizaan]

You should give Saw Palmetto and Stinging Nettle a try. Not only do they block DHT but they also help with prostate problems.
Hope you recover soon

[memoryboy]

I think my chest looks fairly normal. I've quite always had bigger chest because of weight lifting, so didn't notice/know anything different.

but there are a few little bumps around my nipples and if squeezed, then sometimes a clear liquid discharge is coming out of them. More from the left one.
I've had it for so long, I don't even remember, but I've also taken Propecia for a long time.
I didn't even know this is abnormal. God damn, gyno?

I also feel my left chest is a little different. I also have a little muscular abormality as one of my side is a little stronger due to my disc/back problem. I tend to compensate. So shoulders/carriage are a little bit uneven. When i touch, then I think I can feel a harder tissue on my left breast or even a lump. god dammn..

I'm really scared now.

[memoryboy]

Got my latest bloodwork done. Still waiting for some numbers.
They don't measure DHT in my country, so they actually have to send to Germany to get measured. So it takes 7 days.

Met up with endocrinologist. Was a quite unpleasant guy to begin with. But he didn't think there's anything wrong with my hormones, and all are in range.

My liver numbers were high but this cannot be finasteride. I have the numbers from a year ago, and they were normal. I'll go and make a 9 day liver detox.

Met up with my original andrologists/urologists as well. He said all my numbers are alright as well.

I still have prostatitis and he said to concentrate to get rid of that. He prescribed me prostate massage and some milder antibiotics regime.

Maybe my prostatitis really had nothing to do with finasteride. But I read somewhere that high estrogen in young males could potentially cause prostatitis. And my estrogen was high probably because finasteride. Not sure.

Regret I didn't do the blood tests before starting finasteride 10 years ago.

My sperm quality was the same bad as in the fall, maybe slightly worse. But the measurement in the winter with very bad almost infertile results was done in another place, and was supposedly wrong.

He checked me and didn't think I have gyno. Coudn't detect any breast tissue by hand. Doctor asked to go get a mammography if I wanted to. I can get it done in the end of the month if I choose so.

I kind of regret ever having read all the Propeciahelp stuff and kind of regret ever had come of finasteride. After 3 months off it, I'm shedding like crazy and loosing hairline day by day. Even going though my hair by hand, tons of hair is coming off. Not no mention showering or combing. I'm actually considering to start taking it again. Should I? How long I could expect to stop shedding? The big shedding has been going on for a week o so. Maybe try 0,5mg a day dose at first? I was on that one for the last 3 months before quitting. Could I expect growing back that I've lost in this shed? Considering that I grew it back the last time I started using it.
Any supplement to take to keep my androgen/estrogen ratio in check along with finasteride?

I miss the 8 years I didn't think about my hair loss and never visited these forums ))

I've taken a month break before a few times, this was the first 3 month break. I think it's safe to say, finasteride was keeping all my hair.

Being off Propecia, my morning erections are back though.
Also sperm is more white and less transparent.
And I'm starting to think a lot of my ED was in my head.
My doctor also said to me I should maybe see a psychologist.
I'm still using Cialis sometimes though, it's just rock hard with that for a long time.

It's often like this, that you see one little side effect that could or could not have to do with finasteride and you can blew it all up in our head reading all the horror stories that probably feed on from each other. Not to say some of it is true but it's millions of people taking the drug.

My current tests. 3 months off Propecia.
Testestorone seems pretty low to me though and estrogen pretty high (dropped a little but still high).
Even though my doctor said he doesn't see any problem.

Anyway, testestorone is a lot lower than it was on Propecia (then it was 22.49) and even lower than 3 months ago after quitting (around 17). Could quitting of finasteride has caused this?

My doctor said it's in range and alright. And it's fluctuating and that's normal.
It's a very trustworthy doctor and the leading andrologist in my county. But also, he is the one that is prescribing finasteride to hundreds of patients, so I guess it would be hard to admit any persistent problems as he has preached the drug is safe to use.

Prolactin is alright (high Prolactin would be the cause of gyno).

Testestorone 14.4 nmol/l...................8-29 nmol/l
Oestradiol 118.7 pmol/ll..................<146 pmol/l
SHBG 22 nmol/l
TSH 3.33 mlU/l...........................0,40-4,00
Prolactin: 192 mlU/l....................53-360
Progesterone (P4): 1.72 nmol/l.............<4.11
FSH 8,1 IU/l..........................1,4-18,1
LH 4,37 IU/l..........................1,5-9,3
S-DHEAS 8,3........................0,9-15,4
Cortisol 331 nmol/l................138-690
FT4 15,08 pmol/l....................11,5-22,7
FT3 5,60 pmol/l.......................3,5-6,5

Androgen/Estrogan ratio......still waiting for the result
DHT......still waiting for the result
Free testestorone......still waiting for the result
Bioavailable Testosterone......still waiting for the result
3-alpha-diol G 5AR-II activity......still waiting for the result

If anyone experienced care to elaborate on my results, I'd be happy to hear that! Thanks!

The weird thing is. Propecia and generic are still not available in any pharmacies in my country. For more than 3 months. Could be even more as I had a little supply in store. My inital quitting was because I couldn't get the drug any more... And noone seems to know why.

yeah, the NOCEBO effect can be strong on us. Especially if it's messing with sexual organs and functions. It's so important for us as males.

I'm shedding like crazy in the front and temples and receding hard. Really having different looks already in matter of days.

If I start finasteride again, how soon I could expect the shedding to stop? But I've lost so much already that if I don't grow it back then I would definitely need to get an transplant.

I've read that this DHT shock shedding after and starting Propecia should stabilize though and some of it could grow back.

The shedding is so depressing that I consider shaving it at least for the time being.

I've never had shaved head, so I'm a bit scared how it would suit me.