Considering Tattooing Your Scalp? Listen To This Expertís Opinion -
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 2 of 2
  1. #1
    Administrator tbtadmin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008

    film Considering Tattooing Your Scalp? Listen To This Expertís Opinion

    Nicole Large from Shapiro Medical Group calls in to discuss the reality of Tricopigmentation and other forms of scalp pigmentation, and Internet Broadcasting legend Andrew Zarian joins the guys to talk about his incredible success [Ö]


  2. #2
    Junior Member Nicole007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Minneapolis, MN

    Default Adding to the conversation

    Hi everyone,

    I wanted to take the time to expound upon the conversation I had with Spencer and Joe to explain more of the technical details of the things we discussed.

    When I listened to the show, I felt maybe I gave the impression that I don't like permanent SMP and that is not how I feel nor what I intended to portray. What I more wanted to portray was that as patients we really need to be careful and cautious when choosing a provider.

    Permanent SMP fascinates me actually. Because there are still so many unanswered questions. Actually, our goal at SMG is always to be armed with the most knowledge available in everything hair related so we can help educate patients and other professionals so that every patient is receiving the best care possible. Actually, we have committed to an extensive 1:1 intense training with one of the largest permanent SMP companies in the world starting this summer. We are not now nor ever going into business with them we just think they seem to have produced some consistently outstanding technicians and consistently stable SMP results on the market. If tried and true permanent SMP exists we believe they have a great deal of information that can help us in our research. The thing I will really be tuning into is the technical differences between the permanent SMP and tricopigmentation. I'll be excited to share this information with you all in the future.

    Ok, now the other stuff:

    When I said "no pigment is permanent and you will need touch-ups" :

    Technically a few of you might have SMP's that will never fade because back when this was first starting people were using tattoo ink. Many of these patients are the elusive blue heads that we see in the horror stories today. (side note *tattoo ink is easy to laser off if you are in need of repair email me) In the beginning technicans didn't know what the long term results were going to be from using inks vs pigments. Companies were basically experimenting trying to figure it out and perfect the procedure. But, nobody was sharing information and each company was left to figure it out for themselves. Unfortunately, patients paid for this. But, today we have come along way and today technicians industry wide have great communication and we talk openly trying to help each other. Today's pigments both permanent and semi-permanent are designed especially for the scalp. They are not permanent cosmetics nor tattoo ink but specially designed scalp pigments. Now, do these newly designed permanent pigments fade, change color, etc? Honestly, I don't know from first hand knowledge of using them myself. (Which is why I am choosing to learn more). What I can tell you is this: one of the reasons I love working with Dr. Shapiro is that we see so many patients that I have the opportunity to see other peoples smp work up close and personal quite regularly. I can tell you that in monitoring these patients from other groups we have seen fading and a needs for touch-ups but not always color change. If you are interested in permanent smp I am happy to discuss and refer you to the people I trust and consider to be masters.

    Will black pigment always turn blue or does a "true black on the grey scale" really exist?

    This is a great question. So, technically yes black should always turn blue while fading according to the science of color. How it works is there are only 3 colors that exist in nature - red, yellow, blue. Every color beyond that is combinations of those colors. So, black is made up of many layers of blue to get the darkness. Another example, is brown is make up from more red and yellow and less blue so when you see fading you see orange. (maybe you have seen this on eyebrows) So, when black is fading or lightening you see blue. I like to replace the word fade with lighten and it seems to make more sense. What causes pigment to lighten - the SUN, alcohol based hair products and topical treatments, swimming, excessive showering, lifestyle. And, also stuff that you cannot control like a healthy immune system or the undertone of your skin. But, the biggest factor in fading is pigment particle size. For instance, tricopigmentation has a very small particle size under 15 so the pigment is able to slip out of the cell wall and fade by virtue of phagocytotsis. Permanent makeup has a particle size closer to 20 and tattoo ink 30. Once implanted these particles get swallowed by fibroblasts and there is no escape. So, I'm going to speculate that these new scalp pigments have a smaller particle size which will allow them to fade by virtue of being able to escape the cell wall. So, if they have a true black that exists on a grey scale as it lightens if it turns grey is that bad? I say no. Grey is the color of keratin which is the color of a hair follicle. Often you will see people who have full heads of hair but who choose to shave their head have a grey tone to their scalps. Soon I'll have more to report to you on the exacts vs just my speculation.

    I stressed the importance of finding a good technician. First, please never hesitate to call me for a referral or to have someone impartial to walk you safely through the smp process. I'm happy to be a neutral resource and get you into the right hands whether it be for repair or if you are just starting the smp process. The right technician and the right company is really key.

    Did we talk about smp hairlines? Lets...

    Still too straight and too low! The problem I have with this beyond it looking fake and suspect is with no future planning. We can't forget hairloss is progressive. I see it all the time - the patient gets tired of the shaved look after wearing it for a few years and decides they now want hair and are now considering transplants and we need to figure out how to get rid of that hairline that is inch lower than their natural hairline. Cardinal rule: DO NOT go beyond where your natural hairline is or would be. The SMP alone will take years off your appearance but an 18 year old hairline on a 37 year's not found in nature. Also, it's rare to see a perfectly straight hairline on a Caucasian male. Now, I understand wanting to look trendy by having a procedure based on the current trend is a mistake and often leads to regret. I feel fortunate to not have to worry about hairlines because I have both Dr.Shapiro's and Dr. Josephitis to draw all mine and I replicate their vision. Nobody can go wrong with a Shapiro hairline .

    So, What if I don't like my hairline or I'm that person that now wants hair?

    This is why I stress another topic we touched on "know what pigments our provider is using". This makes a huge difference in how easy it will be to repair. Scalp pigments will laser out in 1-2 sessions. Permanent Cosmetics take many sessions and can be impossible to laser out. I had a patient who had to endure 12 laser treatments after being treated with permanent makeup. Most places will at least tell you if it is a. Tattoo Pigment b. Permanent Cosmetics c. Scalp Pigment. If you want the whole ingredient list good luck. As technicians we fight with the companies to get entire ingredient lists. The problem often times is not the clinic withholding information from you it's the pigment manufacturing company who doesn't want to give away their propriety formulas. And, in the USA the fda doesn't carefully regulate the industry so you will see lots of references on the mdma that say "may or may not contain" very elusive wording. Pigments from countries in asia will come with no ingredient lists and no regulation and are very unstable. The European union has the strictest regulation on the manufacturing, packaging, and labeling of pigments. The EU has a list of over a thousand banned ingredients compared to the fda which has 16. This is another reason we stand behind beauty medical pigments being some of the safest available.

    I also wanted to take a min to tell Spenser that I really think that both toppik and dermatch should come with an addiction warning label. Spencer you wouldn't be a canadite for smp at this time because clearly you are hooked! It's highly unlikely that smp will give you the coverage and the darkness that dermatch will because we want to see some skin between the impressions. Because the makeup washs off it's ok to "paint your head" but not with pigment. Again, it's future planning...what if you lost more hair? Best case scenario for those of you hooked on concealers is that you will be able to USE LESS product and it will grant you some comfort in swimming again, and perhaps you can regain confidence in some of the other life activities you have put on hold because of the concealers. Toppik is a whole other animal because of those fibers. The smp is 2 dimensional and will not give you any volume that toppik provides. If you are not prepared for that you will be disappointed. Again, plan on using less. For those of you using both products who are wondering what to do. Best case, plan on being able to get rid of one. SMP is a great procedure to help with giving the illusion of extra thickness don't get me wrong but we need to manage proper expectations so that you are not let down.

    Lastly, I also want to mention that the company I previously worked for is under new managements and ownership and my stories are not reflective of what they are doing today.

    Hope this gives more insight!

Similar Threads

  1. Dr. Lindsey 10 months out from repair of previous surgery and scalp tattooing, McLea
    By Dr. Lindsey in forum Hair Transplant Results By IAHRS Recommended Surgeons
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-21-2013, 05:24 AM
  2. Dr. Lindsey repair of previous surgery and scalp tattooing in black frontal hairline
    By Dr. Lindsey in forum Hair Transplant Results By IAHRS Recommended Surgeons
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-01-2012, 07:11 AM
  3. Considering micro hair tattooing, at least for my scar
    By jgq85 in forum Non Surgical Hair Replacement
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-11-2012, 08:14 AM
  4. NEED expert opinion please
    By nw?? in forum Hair Transplant: Start Your Own Topic
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-31-2009, 07:01 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts


hair transplant surgeons

» The Bald Truth

» Recent Threads

How to gamble correctly?
Today 07:18 AM
by Moreno
Last Post By robert3242
Today 08:56 AM
12-16-2019 04:45 AM
Last Post By haadi
Today 03:21 AM
Interview with 10month frontal 2800 graft patient by Dr. Lindsey
11-29-2022 07:35 AM
Last Post By robert3242
Yesterday 11:01 PM
Tapaday 200mg
Yesterday 10:45 PM
Last Post By HenrySmith12
Yesterday 10:45 PM