Desmond -- Update us on your topical fin experiment?

[tom23]

can you put the propecia in minoxidil to make topical solution

This probably been covered before but cant you simply make solution of topical propecia via dissolving it in minoxidil

There is i rather poor journal article illustrating success with this type treatment however the validity of this article is questionable

http://www.idoj.in/article.asp?issn=2229-5178;year=2015;volume=6;issue=1;spage=17;epage=20;aulast=Chandrashekar

[robodoc]

But maybe blocking all the 5AR in your scalp is simply enough?

Also, it's hard to tell exactly how much drugs go systemic when you're doing topicals. It might vary from person to person. RU is a much stronger AA drug. It's nearly impossible no to have sides with it going systemic largely. Yet some people can use it safely while some unlucky guys, like myself, suffer from almost immediate sides after applying, suggesting quick systemic absorbtion.

****************

Let me go on this tangent. I know from experience high doses stop baldness just DON"T take high doses of Fin because of the side effects. But based on that believe that topical Fin will work whether type 1 or 2 is inhibited.

This is way preliminary and hardly scientific but by measuring, so to speak, hair loss (on me only) topical Fin after 4 weeks has seriously slowed MY hair loss to virtually nothing....sides, none so far...and answer to your questions is 0.1% in Espumil.

I will update again later.

[robodoc]

Sure you could add Fin to a minoxidil solution but would dissolve in isopropyl alchol first. Personally I would not do that since you might want to control how much of Minox and Fin you apply.

[WangMQ]

Okay guys, let me blow your minds with the information we dug up and presented to the dermatologists in our area! Back in 1995 when Merck was testing Finasteride for AGA, they also ran a small trial of 52 patients using very low-dose topical finasteride! This trial used Finasteride in 0.005% concentration and ran for 16 months! Can you believe it! It was minuscule doses and guess what happened



This study was later published in 1997 and is titled:

Topical finasteride in the treatment of androgenic alopecia. Preliminary evaluations after a 16-month therapy course

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/09546639709160517#.VwkiYTB96Uk

The size of the balding reduced, terminal hair count increased while in the placebo group it all went to negatives. Surprise surprise. They even collected plasma DHT level data and it was barely changed but the hairloss improved.

Now I don't why the topicals since then were being prepared in 1% concentrations which is higher than the oral dose you take but that is most probably why ppl experience sides even on topical fin.

For those that don't know I am a compounding pharmacist and we have patients using topical fin in many different strengths ranging from 0.05% all the way to 0.1% and they all seem to be happy with it.

So don't lose hope. Finasteride may still be a viable option for you. You just have to go down the topical route in very low doses.

First of all thank you for your info Desmond!

I personally have some doubts about the topical fin issue. I've researched a little bit and ran into very contradictory conclusions. Some studies claimed reduced sides with topical fin (compared to oral), others pointed out that serum DHT level are equally decreased whether fin is administered topically or orally. That being said, most studies I read agrees that topical fin works better than or at least as good as oral fin.

https://www.************.com/topical...e-does-it-work

This page directs to some of these studies. The data on that page clearly suggests topical fin inhibits serum DHT just to the same extent as oral fin.

(The forum blocked the link. In short the data is like:

https://hassonandwong.com/topical-finasteride-solution-prescription/

This is the Hasson & Wong topical guys mentioned before. Hasson & Wong pointed out two things: 1. finasteride is easily absorbed with regular solvent, so vehicle does not seem to be a problem with topical fin. 2. topical fin gets in your blood VERY easily, that's why they had to develop that liposomal gel which somehow "locks" the drug in your skin, as they claimed.

With all these evidences, it's hard to imagine how regular topical fin (with no special liposome delivery) can actually help us avoid systemic sides

Desmond, your're reporting some success stories without sides with topical fin in your patients. Do your patients experience sides on oral fin? Maybe they just simply don't get sides from fin? I'm not trying to question your credibility but I really want to understand what we're looking at since topical fin might be my only option left too...

And thank you again for helping us here!

[WangMQ]

****************

Let me go on this tangent. I know from experience high doses stop baldness just DON"T take high doses of Fin because of the side effects. But based on that believe that topical Fin will work whether type 1 or 2 is inhibited.

This is way preliminary and hardly scientific but by measuring, so to speak, hair loss (on me only) topical Fin after 4 weeks has seriously slowed MY hair loss to virtually nothing....sides, none so far...and answer to your questions is 0.1% in Espumil.

I will update again later.

robodoc, were you on oral fin before? Knowing that would help us evaluate your side-free results so far better.

We look forward to your updates.

[ez456]

Instead of just talking about side effects, people need to actually do DHT tests both before and a few weeks after trying the topical. Only then do we know how much systemic action there is. If just half of people did this and reported back then we would all know what is what.

[Desmond84]

Topical PGD2 inhibition

Hi guys, I have an update that might interest everyone:

Blackseed extract also known as Nigella sativa, contains an active known as Tymoquinon, which exerts anti-oxidant and anti-inflammatory effects by inhibiting pro-inflammatory mediators, such as cyclooxygenase (COX) and prostaglandin D2.

Anyways, since Tymoquinon is a natural extract, it is readily available and will not undergo rigorous studies (10+ years of trials). However, in 2013 an Italian team made it up in a topical lotion and applied it to scalps suffering from Telogen effluvium and collected data over 6 months. The study is publicly available. Here's the link:

http://file.scirp.org/pdf/JCDSA_2013081513583870.pdf

Results:
At 3 months, 90% of patients using NS solution demonstrated a significant increase in the number of hairs/cm2 in comparison to baseline (T0), while in the group of patients treated with placebo, only 30% of patients showed hair density increase.

In detail, nine out of ten patients belonging to the NS group showed an increase in hair number. Five of these patients reported a further increase at T6, while in four patients we observed a stabilization of the disease with a preservation of hair density also at follow-up. Results strongly differed from the placebo group, where six out of ten patients displayed severe hair loss at both T3 and T6, only three patients showed an improvement in hair density, and one patient showed a stabilization of the disease with the same hair density at T0 and T3

There are photos and hair counts as well.

Anyways, the same company that makes Espumil foaming solution also manufactures Tymoquinon under the trade name Prostaquinon™, which your compounding pharmacy can prepare for you.

How to prepare if you can get your hands on it yourseld you ask?

Prostquinon™ 3 g
PEG-40 hydrogenated castor oil 12 g
Espumil™ qs 100 ml

Compounding instruction:

1. Calculate the quantity of each ingredient required for the prescription.
2. Accurately weigh or measure each ingredient.
3. Mix the Prostaquinon™ with PEG-40 hydrogenated castor oil. If required, gently heat the castor oil (using a water bath) until a liquid is formed.
4. Add approximately three quarters (75 ml) of the Espumil™ slowly to the Prostaquinon™ and PEG-40 hydrogenated castor oil solution and homogenize the solution.
5. Transfer the solution into a graduated cylinder, add qs Espumil™ to reach final volume (100 ml) and homogenize the solution.
6. Package in Fagron foam dispenser and label.

Refrigerate the final solution and it will last 3 months.

Cheers guys

- Des

[iaskdumbquestions]

Very nice but i don't know where to get any of those items

[79BirdofPrey]

Does Fin also block PGD2, or does Prostquinon accomplish hair growth in a different way than Fin?

[marklin]

Why not just add Finasteride into Minoxidil solution to use?

[Paindemonium]

Managed to get this done at a local pharmacy here in Canada and I've been using it for more than a year pretty much daily nightly and twice a day every other day or so (same as listed here, but with added minoxidil too at the usual 5% so I don't need to apply 2 different products separately)... I have less hair than when I started. I can already see the NW2 slowly forming, and I also got less crown density... It didn't cure my itch as well... doesn't work. At least it seems I got not sides, but so what, my confidence is still crushed since I keep lossing hair and I think im going to fall into a depression if I can't stop it.

[k9gatton]

I've been using topical Finasteride (the equivalent of one milligram, or .1% ml per gram) for over two years.


It has DEFINITELY helped my hair, no question. My hair is much densely populated.


Anybody interested in updates?


Topical is slightly more effective, for combating androgen alopecia. In general, it stops
around seventy six percent DHT formation.


Solid Finasteride only stops an average of seventy percent.


That said, the side effects are probably the same for both.


Haven't had any sides, I'm happy to say.

[skyguy]

I've been using topical Finasteride (the equivalent of one milligram, or .1% ml per gram) for over two years.


It has DEFINITELY helped my hair, no question. My hair is much densely populated.


Anybody interested in updates?


Topical is slightly more effective, for combating androgen alopecia. In general, it stops
around seventy six percent DHT formation.


Solid Finasteride only stops an average of seventy percent.


That said, the side effects are probably the same for both.


Haven't had any sides, I'm happy to say.

are u preparing topical finasteride or u r buying it from somewhere?
there is only one topical fin product available in the market and that's all i can get right now
Morrf 5%

http://darksmart1.com/shop/minoxidil/morr-f-minoxidil-5-finasteride-0-1-topical-lipid-solution-60-ml-dht-blocker/

is it legit?

[thechamp]

are u preparing topical finasteride or u r buying it from somewhere?
there is only one topical fin product available in the market and that's all i can get right now
Morrf 5%

http://darksmart1.com/shop/minoxidil/morr-f-minoxidil-5-finasteride-0-1-topical-lipid-solution-60-ml-dht-blocker/

is it legit?

The problem with topical fin it still goes systematic so we will still get the same side effects weight gain and erectile dysfunction

[maddy17]

Thank you for your informative posts. I love your photo (I am female but the guys board is way more active and honestly, you guys know more about this stuff.) The Espumil looks very interesting as a solution, read some of your other posts on fin. Their website does says Azaelic acid is "untested" with the Espumil, so you think it is compatible? I have taken the Blackseed Oil orally to decrease mast cell activation. also, Sodium Butyrate can also be taken orally, and when we have a really healthy gut and intake enough fiber our microbes make it, but if our diet is not perfect, if we have had antibiotic exposure, etc it can be depleted. Scientifically, it does many things, but it increases Tregs both in the gut and peripherally in tissue and Tregs downregulate mast cells. Mast cells are involved in hair loss. It also decreases the secretion of IL6 from the lining of intestines, and IL6 is an inflammatory cytokine with many downstream impacts. IL6 upregulates the adrenals response to ACTH, which means not only more cortisol but also more DHEA...which the body converts into androgens...source of DHT. S.B, also increases insulin sensitivity by 30%. Insulin makes the 5AR enzyme run faster, so we want lower insulin. It also upregulates adiponectin.