How screwed am I?

[J_B_Davis]

Can you post photos of what you looked like when you were taking minoxidil and nizoral? Also please post side view pictures at eye level, I'd like to see what your lateral humps look like, it's hard to see in the initial picture you posted. To be honest, if you were to get a procedure you'd have to have low expectations and be mentally prepared if you ever become Norwood 7, I chose FUE solely for this reason, I have an escape route, although my FUE scars are visible at a zero guard it doesn't draw the eye like a linear scar.

A lot of guys think HT will solve their problems it doesn't, it creates a multitude of other problems, I wish I could live with my baldness, I just could not accept it, so I made the decision knowing the repercussions. If I ever become Norwood 7 I'll shave my head and I'll have to live with my FUE scars, it's something I thought long and hard about. Think about it, you're very bald at a very young age. Although I respect joes opinion he is not a doctor, if an HT is truly something you're interested in you'll have to go in person to a ethical reputable surgeon for an evaluation.

I would take Joe’s word over most doctors any day! I actually find it a little hypocritical of HTSoon to even say something like that when he acts like he's an expert in almost every post he makes. Joe has had several surgeries, is probably the most respected member of these forums ever and has worked for Hasson and Wong for many years and is on The Bald Truth show. I’d say he knows what he is talking about and is only trying to help BreakingBald from making a potential mistake.

[HTsoon]

I would take Joe’s word over most doctors any day! I actually find it a little hypocritical of HTSoon to even say something like that when he acts like he's an expert in almost every post he makes. Joe has had several surgeries, is probably the most respected member of these forums ever and has worked for Hasson and Wong for many years and is on The Bald Truth show. I’d say he knows what he is talking about and is only trying to help BreakingBald from making a potential mistake.

I never said I was an expert ive been researching hair loss for 10 years ever since I noticed I was losing my hair. I'm giving my opinion based on my own experience as someone who was in similar situation to OP, the whole purpose of this thread was to gather opinions. I meant no disrespect to Joe, I value his opinion, Joe forgive me if you took what I wrote as something negative because it was not. Joe is also giving his opinion based on his own experience, but I also recall a young guy from London who went to H&W and Joe actually interviewed him, I remember reading his thread back almost 10 years ago and forum members told him exactly what Joe is saying right now, he was young norwood 6 with retro alopecia, everyone told him he was destined for norwood 7 and he'd regret his decision due to poor donor density. Well he met with Dr. Hasson and according to him he was told he had freakish laxity and very good donor density. He updated his thread on another forum and he's up to 14K grafts nearly 10 years later.

I do agree that there are some unethical doctors out there who are just looking to make a dollar, but at the same time there are some very ethical doctors out there who would not hesitate to turn a patient away. There is simply no way to give someone a proper assessment online just by looking at pictures especially the poor quality photos provided in this thread, you can form an educated opinion but once you see the donor area in person under magnification your opinion may change.

I'm not saying he is a candidate there's a lot of things to consider besides just future hair loss, like managing expectations, you could be norwood III but if you have unrealistic expectations you're not a candidate. So again my advice remains the same, if an HT is something he truly wants to look in to, it would be a great start by setting up in person consultations with recommended physicians and see what they have to say. He could even use Joe's questionnaire and site as a reference guide.

[JoeTillman]

HTsoon,

I meant no disrespect to Joe, I value his opinion, Joe forgive me if you took what I wrote as something negative because it was not.

No worries, man. I didn't take this as negative. We're good.

Joe is also giving his opinion based on his own experience, but I also recall a young guy from London who went to H&W and Joe actually interviewed him, I remember reading his thread back almost 10 years ago and forum members told him exactly what Joe is saying right now, he was young norwood 6 with retro alopecia, everyone told him he was destined for norwood 7 and he'd regret his decision due to poor donor density. Well he met with Dr. Hasson and according to him he was told he had freakish laxity and very good donor density. He updated his thread on another forum and he's up to 14K grafts nearly 10 years later.

As a matter of fact, this patient did an online consultation first (of which every one went through me). He was told by other clinics that he was not a good candidate or that he would only get 2000 to 3000 grafts but I sent him a response to his original inquiry telling him that we could do 4000 to 4500 grafts. This was my standard response given to patients that looked to have at least average characteristics as it was the high end of what one could reasonably expect. I would rarely ever tell patients we could get more than that because I knew that the laxity may change everything, which in his case it did. His hair was also quite short in all of his photos so this made the density difficult to assess but I knew it was at least average as well. I never once thought he was a bad candidate, not to mention, by the time he came for surgery he had already been on Propecia for (if I recall) two full years. He started his research when he was around 27 or 28 and had his surgery when he was 30 or 31. I'm the one that did the initial assessment and then the doctor confirmed that the baseline of his candidacy was legitimate and above average.

So the difference from LL to BreakingBald is that, first and foremost, he wasn't against taking medication. That alone made surgery a valid consideration. There was never really any question regarding the surgical side of things as I/we fully expected to get a hairline and good coverage for the front with a second surgery necessary for the back. Everything he got on top of that was just gravy

[HTsoon]

To be honest I've looked at his pre op photos recently, and there is no way I would've ever guessed he could've gotten 14K grafts, he had retro alopecia that reached pretty far up the nape, I would've gueesed maybe 4K grafts tops.

It just goes to show sometimes pictures can be deceiving and hair length, lighting, angle etc. can play factors with photos. I know for me personally, I had a few doctors turn me away online, they said I wouldn't get good coverage or density cause of my pattern and age, I'm also 31 like LL, but I took the time and went to in person consultations, driving from California to Oregon to meet with Dr. Gabel just for a consult, in addition to visits with Dr. Diep and Dr. Umar.

My thought is if you're not willing to travel to meet doctors in person for evaluation you probably shouldn't get surgery. I also agree, having a surgery at 25 with no preventive meds at the very least minoxidil and nizoral is not a good idea. Chances of shock loss especially in diffuse hairloss is increased.

I've seen some incredible transformations so just because someone is Norwood 6/7 doesn't necessarily mean they're not candidates, there's this guy named Harin on another forum, he's 41 no meds complete Norwood 6/7 hybrid, he got 9,000 grafts his transformation is inspiring, tell me you wouldn't say he's a bad candidate, his results may not be acceptable to some granted, but to me they're amazing considering his level of hair loss. That's when expectations come in to play also.

[JoeTillman]

I've seen some incredible transformations so just because someone is Norwood 6/7 doesn't necessarily mean they're not candidates

Hi there, former NW6.5 repair patient, sitting right here No one said that this was a roadblock to being a surgical candidate.

...there's this guy named Harin on another forum, he's 41 no meds complete Norwood 6/7 hybrid, he got 9,000 grafts his transformation is inspiring, Google "Norwood 6/7 New Delhi" look at his before pics and tell me you wouldn't say he's a bad candidate, his results may not be acceptable to some granted, but to me they're amazing considering his level of hair loss. That's when expectations come in to play also.

Cases like these represent the fringe of the industry as it is not common to see such #'s. But of course, we also can't lump him into the candidate/not candidate argument because, as you said, he's 41 not 25 so his issue with medication is a moot point. He's already gone much further than BreakingBald has at 25 and he could only get to the numbers he got by including beard hair, which took up between 60% to 70% of the total graft count. He may not even have broken 4000 grafts with his scalp hair.

We can point to unusual and extreme cases all day long but they are irrelevant for Breakingbald unfortunately. LL being one of them as well as Harin and of course myself being a NW6.5/repair case with 10,000 grafts. That's why I never felt comfortable with people telling me that my result "inspires" them. It's unrealistic and should never be hoped for, much less expected.