+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 11 to 20 of 20
  1. #11
    Moderator JoeTillman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,137

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Breaking Bald View Post
    Oh hey Joe! Nice to get a reply from you as I'm aware of who you are. No I'm not, I was on Rogaine for a while which may have been slowing it down but I stopped it. It does indeed suck, I'm only 25...I know people will say propecia again and again but I made the decision years ago to not take it. But Joe what do you think? I'm a diffuse thinner and you can clearly see where it is going to stop, my donor area is very thick and hopefully it won't thin out below that point. Do you think I have enough donor for an HT?
    Someone said earlier that you are headed to a NW5 or NW6. I think you're there. Why? Because to properly assess a case you have to look at the obvious pattern that is developing and use the end point as the classification. You are what can be described as a diffused NW6 and it will only get worse, guaranteed. In fact, and I hate to be the one to say this, you've got a higher chance than average of being a NW7 because the parietal humps are almost non-existent and I see the outline of what the sides are going to look like. They're going to drop, the crown will open up, and you'll be a NW7. Your pattern is more obvious to me than was my own pattern at the same age.

    Your donor area is also questionable to me. You said it's thick but I think it is also being affected as I see what area almost like patches of low density. It could be the way your hair might clump together but I think at best it is simply a mix of issues. Bottom line is that I don't think you are a surgical candidate given the facts of your case.

    You're 25.
    You're a NW6 heading to additional loss.
    You have no preventative program in place.

    If you "have enough for a transplant" is irrelevant. The relevant question is if you have enough donor hair for the future when measured against your current AND future loss. The answer is no.
    Joe Tillman
    The original Hair Transplant Mentor

    Interested to know which doctors I recommend?
    See the full list at HairTransplantMentor.com/hair-transplant-doctors

  2. #12
    Senior Member Breaking Bald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    At wits end...
    Posts
    593

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTillman View Post
    Someone said earlier that you are headed to a NW5 or NW6. I think you're there. Why? Because to properly assess a case you have to look at the obvious pattern that is developing and use the end point as the classification. You are what can be described as a diffused NW6 and it will only get worse, guaranteed. In fact, and I hate to be the one to say this, you've got a higher chance than average of being a NW7 because the parietal humps are almost non-existent and I see the outline of what the sides are going to look like. They're going to drop, the crown will open up, and you'll be a NW7. Your pattern is more obvious to me than was my own pattern at the same age.

    Your donor area is also questionable to me. You said it's thick but I think it is also being affected as I see what area almost like patches of low density. It could be the way your hair might clump together but I think at best it is simply a mix of issues. Bottom line is that I don't think you are a surgical candidate given the facts of your case.

    You're 25.
    You're a NW6 heading to additional loss.
    You have no preventative program in place.

    If you "have enough for a transplant" is irrelevant. The relevant question is if you have enough donor hair for the future when measured against your current AND future loss. The answer is no.
    Wow that's a real blow hearing you say that but thanks for being honest. This is truly devastating, I didn't expect it to end up advancing so low. So there is really nothing I can do is there?

    What do you mean when you say that the parietal humps are none existent? You really think it's gonna get lower as you can see the hairs that are effected, as I'm a diffuser, it should all be going at once right? Ao the healthy hairs that you can see now should stay like that don't you reckon?

  3. #13
    Senior Member Breaking Bald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    At wits end...
    Posts
    593

    Default

    I was on nizoral and minoxidil for about three years but stopped recently. Is there any point on going back on them? It didn't do a great deal but maybe slowed it down.

  4. #14
    Senior Member HTsoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    160

    Default

    Can you post photos of what you looked like when you were taking minoxidil and nizoral? Also please post side view pictures at eye level, I'd like to see what your lateral humps look like, it's hard to see in the initial picture you posted. To be honest, if you were to get a procedure you'd have to have low expectations and be mentally prepared if you ever become Norwood 7, I chose FUE solely for this reason, I have an escape route, although my FUE scars are visible at a zero guard it doesn't draw the eye like a linear scar.

    A lot of guys think HT will solve their problems it doesn't, it creates a multitude of other problems, I wish I could live with my baldness, I just could not accept it, so I made the decision knowing the repercussions. If I ever become Norwood 7 I'll shave my head and I'll have to live with my FUE scars, it's something I thought long and hard about. Think about it, you're very bald at a very young age. Although I respect joes opinion he is not a doctor, if an HT is truly something you're interested in you'll have to go in person to a ethical reputable surgeon for an evaluation.

  5. #15
    Moderator JoeTillman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,137

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Breaking Bald View Post
    Wow that's a real blow hearing you say that but thanks for being honest. This is truly devastating, I didn't expect it to end up advancing so low. So there is really nothing I can do is there?

    What do you mean when you say that the parietal humps are none existent? You really think it's gonna get lower as you can see the hairs that are effected, as I'm a diffuser, it should all be going at once right? Ao the healthy hairs that you can see now should stay like that don't you reckon?
    Breakingbald,

    I don't like making such assessments but the facts are the facts. You have a lot of cards stacked against you for two main reasons. You are 25 and you are not on preventative medication. Those two facts make it more of a challenge for the long term than any other consideration. Period.

    Make no mistake, any respected doctor can make a big improvement for you. This much is true, and you would most likely be happy in the short term assuming everything went well with the surgery itself, which is another risk altogether (never forget this). My concern for you is the medium to long term post-surgery.

    And I respect HTSoon's comment about me not being a doctor. This is true. In fact, I never graduated college. This does not take away from the idea that surgery is a bad idea for you. Regardless of my formal education you still are 25, you still are a NW6 with diffused loss, and you still are not on an effective preventative program with observed stabilization to your loss.

    I do agree that you should visit an IAHRS member doctor and have a face to face assessment. Tell the doctor(s) you have started this thread, have him or her read through it, and then ask if they agree or disagree with the general idea presented by me and others that you are not a good surgical candidate. Report their opinion back here along with their argument, pro or no, regarding your hair transplant future.

    Regarding your parietal humps, I think saying they are non-existent was a bit much. They exist but what I meant was that the density is so low that they blend with the rest of the diffused loss on the top of your scalp. Yes, I'd like to see profile shots as well but I'm certain that the density gets higher further down on the sides than where the parietal humps would normally be well defined.

    Regarding nizoral and minoxidil, if you did not have sides and you could handle the routine (minox mainly) and you don't want your loss to get worse then yes, restart them both.

    I want to be clear about this. My opinion is based on seeing a lot of patients that regret their hair transplant decisions if only for the continued loss that occurred after their surgery. Most cases are those where the patient stopped taking medication (for various reasons) after the surgery and their full results were realized only to be reduced to considering wigs five years later because the loss was too much for them to handle. Other cases can be chalked up to medication not effective enough to stop but only slow the loss or other reasons that can contribute to such circumstances. I don't want you to got through this nor what I personally went through with my own continued loss after my first two surgeries in the early 90's. I've walked the walk and no one else should do the same.
    Joe Tillman
    The original Hair Transplant Mentor

    Interested to know which doctors I recommend?
    See the full list at HairTransplantMentor.com/hair-transplant-doctors

  6. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    409

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HTsoon View Post
    Can you post photos of what you looked like when you were taking minoxidil and nizoral? Also please post side view pictures at eye level, I'd like to see what your lateral humps look like, it's hard to see in the initial picture you posted. To be honest, if you were to get a procedure you'd have to have low expectations and be mentally prepared if you ever become Norwood 7, I chose FUE solely for this reason, I have an escape route, although my FUE scars are visible at a zero guard it doesn't draw the eye like a linear scar.

    A lot of guys think HT will solve their problems it doesn't, it creates a multitude of other problems, I wish I could live with my baldness, I just could not accept it, so I made the decision knowing the repercussions. If I ever become Norwood 7 I'll shave my head and I'll have to live with my FUE scars, it's something I thought long and hard about. Think about it, you're very bald at a very young age. Although I respect joes opinion he is not a doctor, if an HT is truly something you're interested in you'll have to go in person to a ethical reputable surgeon for an evaluation.
    I would take Joe’s word over most doctors any day! I actually find it a little hypocritical of HTSoon to even say something like that when he acts like he's an expert in almost every post he makes. Joe has had several surgeries, is probably the most respected member of these forums ever and has worked for Hasson and Wong for many years and is on The Bald Truth show. I’d say he knows what he is talking about and is only trying to help BreakingBald from making a potential mistake.

  7. #17
    Senior Member HTsoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    160

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J_B_Davis View Post
    I would take Joe’s word over most doctors any day! I actually find it a little hypocritical of HTSoon to even say something like that when he acts like he's an expert in almost every post he makes. Joe has had several surgeries, is probably the most respected member of these forums ever and has worked for Hasson and Wong for many years and is on The Bald Truth show. I’d say he knows what he is talking about and is only trying to help BreakingBald from making a potential mistake.
    I never said I was an expert ive been researching hair loss for 10 years ever since I noticed I was losing my hair. I'm giving my opinion based on my own experience as someone who was in similar situation to OP, the whole purpose of this thread was to gather opinions. I meant no disrespect to Joe, I value his opinion, Joe forgive me if you took what I wrote as something negative because it was not. Joe is also giving his opinion based on his own experience, but I also recall a young guy from London who went to H&W and Joe actually interviewed him, I remember reading his thread back almost 10 years ago and forum members told him exactly what Joe is saying right now, he was young norwood 6 with retro alopecia, everyone told him he was destined for norwood 7 and he'd regret his decision due to poor donor density. Well he met with Dr. Hasson and according to him he was told he had freakish laxity and very good donor density. He updated his thread on another forum and he's up to 14K grafts nearly 10 years later.

    I do agree that there are some unethical doctors out there who are just looking to make a dollar, but at the same time there are some very ethical doctors out there who would not hesitate to turn a patient away. There is simply no way to give someone a proper assessment online just by looking at pictures especially the poor quality photos provided in this thread, you can form an educated opinion but once you see the donor area in person under magnification your opinion may change.

    I'm not saying he is a candidate there's a lot of things to consider besides just future hair loss, like managing expectations, you could be norwood III but if you have unrealistic expectations you're not a candidate. So again my advice remains the same, if an HT is something he truly wants to look in to, it would be a great start by setting up in person consultations with recommended physicians and see what they have to say. He could even use Joe's questionnaire and site as a reference guide.

  8. #18
    Moderator JoeTillman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,137

    Default

    HTsoon,

    I meant no disrespect to Joe, I value his opinion, Joe forgive me if you took what I wrote as something negative because it was not.
    No worries, man. I didn't take this as negative. We're good.

    Joe is also giving his opinion based on his own experience, but I also recall a young guy from London who went to H&W and Joe actually interviewed him, I remember reading his thread back almost 10 years ago and forum members told him exactly what Joe is saying right now, he was young norwood 6 with retro alopecia, everyone told him he was destined for norwood 7 and he'd regret his decision due to poor donor density. Well he met with Dr. Hasson and according to him he was told he had freakish laxity and very good donor density. He updated his thread on another forum and he's up to 14K grafts nearly 10 years later.
    As a matter of fact, this patient did an online consultation first (of which every one went through me). He was told by other clinics that he was not a good candidate or that he would only get 2000 to 3000 grafts but I sent him a response to his original inquiry telling him that we could do 4000 to 4500 grafts. This was my standard response given to patients that looked to have at least average characteristics as it was the high end of what one could reasonably expect. I would rarely ever tell patients we could get more than that because I knew that the laxity may change everything, which in his case it did. His hair was also quite short in all of his photos so this made the density difficult to assess but I knew it was at least average as well. I never once thought he was a bad candidate, not to mention, by the time he came for surgery he had already been on Propecia for (if I recall) two full years. He started his research when he was around 27 or 28 and had his surgery when he was 30 or 31. I'm the one that did the initial assessment and then the doctor confirmed that the baseline of his candidacy was legitimate and above average.

    So the difference from LL to BreakingBald is that, first and foremost, he wasn't against taking medication. That alone made surgery a valid consideration. There was never really any question regarding the surgical side of things as I/we fully expected to get a hairline and good coverage for the front with a second surgery necessary for the back. Everything he got on top of that was just gravy
    Joe Tillman
    The original Hair Transplant Mentor

    Interested to know which doctors I recommend?
    See the full list at HairTransplantMentor.com/hair-transplant-doctors

  9. #19
    Senior Member HTsoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    160

    Default

    To be honest I've looked at his pre op photos recently, and there is no way I would've ever guessed he could've gotten 14K grafts, he had retro alopecia that reached pretty far up the nape, I would've gueesed maybe 4K grafts tops.

    It just goes to show sometimes pictures can be deceiving and hair length, lighting, angle etc. can play factors with photos. I know for me personally, I had a few doctors turn me away online, they said I wouldn't get good coverage or density cause of my pattern and age, I'm also 31 like LL, but I took the time and went to in person consultations, driving from California to Oregon to meet with Dr. Gabel just for a consult, in addition to visits with Dr. Diep and Dr. Umar.

    My thought is if you're not willing to travel to meet doctors in person for evaluation you probably shouldn't get surgery. I also agree, having a surgery at 25 with no preventive meds at the very least minoxidil and nizoral is not a good idea. Chances of shock loss especially in diffuse hairloss is increased.

    I've seen some incredible transformations so just because someone is Norwood 6/7 doesn't necessarily mean they're not candidates, there's this guy named Harin on another forum, he's 41 no meds complete Norwood 6/7 hybrid, he got 9,000 grafts his transformation is inspiring, tell me you wouldn't say he's a bad candidate, his results may not be acceptable to some granted, but to me they're amazing considering his level of hair loss. That's when expectations come in to play also.
    Last edited by Winston; 03-17-2016 at 08:06 PM. Reason: Please refer to our posting policies and TOS.

  10. #20
    Moderator JoeTillman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,137

    Default

    I've seen some incredible transformations so just because someone is Norwood 6/7 doesn't necessarily mean they're not candidates
    Hi there, former NW6.5 repair patient, sitting right here No one said that this was a roadblock to being a surgical candidate.

    ...there's this guy named Harin on another forum, he's 41 no meds complete Norwood 6/7 hybrid, he got 9,000 grafts his transformation is inspiring, Google "Norwood 6/7 New Delhi" look at his before pics and tell me you wouldn't say he's a bad candidate, his results may not be acceptable to some granted, but to me they're amazing considering his level of hair loss. That's when expectations come in to play also.
    Cases like these represent the fringe of the industry as it is not common to see such #'s. But of course, we also can't lump him into the candidate/not candidate argument because, as you said, he's 41 not 25 so his issue with medication is a moot point. He's already gone much further than BreakingBald has at 25 and he could only get to the numbers he got by including beard hair, which took up between 60% to 70% of the total graft count. He may not even have broken 4000 grafts with his scalp hair.

    We can point to unusual and extreme cases all day long but they are irrelevant for Breakingbald unfortunately. LL being one of them as well as Harin and of course myself being a NW6.5/repair case with 10,000 grafts. That's why I never felt comfortable with people telling me that my result "inspires" them. It's unrealistic and should never be hoped for, much less expected.
    Joe Tillman
    The original Hair Transplant Mentor

    Interested to know which doctors I recommend?
    See the full list at HairTransplantMentor.com/hair-transplant-doctors

Similar Threads

  1. Im Screwed...
    By eighteen in forum Men's Hair Loss: Start Your Own Topic
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-10-2016, 08:31 PM
  2. I think im screwed for HT?
    By Feeling fcuked in forum Hair Transplant: Start Your Own Topic
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 08-07-2015, 02:35 PM
  3. How Screwed am I? [Pics]
    By asian in forum Men's Hair Loss: Start Your Own Topic
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 11-12-2014, 05:06 AM
  4. I am screwed right?
    By deuce in forum Men's Hair Loss: Start Your Own Topic
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-06-2014, 11:01 PM
  5. So, i'm screwed. But what norwood
    By stimpy in forum Men's Hair Loss: Start Your Own Topic
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-10-2013, 08:18 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

» IAHRS

hair transplant surgeons

» The Bald Truth

» Recent Threads

1800 graft repair case results by Dr. Lindsey
Yesterday 08:38 AM
Last Post By Dr. Lindsey
Yesterday 08:38 AM
Navigating the German Job Market as a Kenyan Citizen
11-04-2023 06:31 AM
Last Post By Keegan212
Yesterday 03:51 AM
DR HAKAN DOGANAY/ 4500 GRAFTS / Implanter Pen+FUE
03-26-2024 04:15 PM
Last Post By Hakan Doganay, MD
03-26-2024 04:15 PM
The Mane Event for Thursday, June 15th, 2023
06-15-2023 02:59 PM
Last Post By gisecit34
03-26-2024 08:05 AM
Sun Exposure after Hair Transplant
02-26-2009 02:36 PM
Last Post By gisecit34
03-25-2024 08:24 PM