Summary - First Post
The original thread was becoming too big and it was becoming difficult for users to find the more important information which prompted the need for a new thread will all the research and protocols condensed into a read-only thread with titles so people can search for what they're after.
Please do not post in this thread.
This thread should only be used for posting research and not for any discussion whatsoever as it will only make it harder to find things for readers. If you would like to discuss anything in this thread or have any questions then please quote a post (ideally only a part) and post in the original thread linked above. I have a feeling someone is going to try to be a smartass and post in this thread anyway, so please - for everyones sake, do not post in this thread even if you have a compulsion to do so. If you would like to contribute some research then please run it by me first in the other thread so we can vigorously analyse the literature before writing up anything official. We only want research with supporting literature from multiple sources and research that is deemed important in understanding/treating AGA. You will not find bro-science or pseudo-science in here and I intend to keep it this way.
Treatments:
You can find all the research on the supplements/herbs and why I've recommended these dosages/vehicles, listed in this thread. If you want to search for something specific you might have to register to use the search thread function. Alternatively you can use this advanced Google search query to find posts in this thread.
Oleuropein
1mg-1.5mg/ml
Vehicle: Ethanol + PG (80/20)
Agonist: WNT10b, IGF-1, β-catenin
Inhibits: DKK-1
Amazon UK - Swanson Olive Leaf Extract Super Strength 750mg, 60 Capsules
Amazon UK - Swanson Olive Leaf Extract Super Strength 750mg, 60 Capsules
The extract above contains 150mg actual oleuropein so for a 50ml solution you'd use 1/3 of a capsule to achieve 1mg/ml. If you're going to use minox as a vehicle (which I do) then you'd use a little more than a third for 60ml of minox. Oleuropein has a fairly high molecular weight and will reduce the solubility of other molecules in the same solution so you might want to use this as a standalone mixture.
EGCG
5mg-15mg/ml
Vehicle: Ethanol - PG (80/20)
Agonist: β-catenin (via inhibition)
Inhibits: Axin, GSK3β, AR (mild), 5ar (not EGCG)
Amazon UK - Swanson Teavigo EGCG 150mg (actual) 30 caps
Amazon US - Swanson Teavigo EGCG 150mg (actual) 30 caps
You can use any brand of EGCG but I use teavigo since its got a higher concentration of EGCG. The other green tea brands will contain less EGCG but will contain other catechins that have the ability to inhibit 5ar. EGCG tends to degrade over time and degrades faster with higher humidity and temperatures so it's better to make smaller batches. You can use as much EGCG as you like but be sure not to oversaturate the solution because you'll only waste the excess. As for EGCGs AR inhibitory potency I'd guesstimate its around 30%. You can make up the rest by stacking it with a 5ar inhibitor like GLA which should be enough for the growth agonists to work properly.
Gamma Linoleic Acid (GLA) + Linoleic Acid
Soluble in Ethanol, Oil
Agonist: VEGF (safflower, LA), IGF-1 (LA)
Inhibits: 5ar, TGF-β1 (safflower)
Sonova 400 - GLA 400mg 60 caps
Amazon UK Solgar Borage Oil - 300mg GLA, 470mg LA 60 caps
Amazon US Solgar Borage Oil - 300mg GLA, 470mg LA 60 caps
I've been using Evening primrose oil mixed with minox for two weeks now and I've noticed slightly more vellus to terminal transitions. GLA/LA has alot of potential to inhibit 5ar quite potently. Borage seed extract contains more GLA than Evening primrose oil, but Sonova 400 contains almost double the amount of GLA in borage oil (with less LA: 200mg). Its quite pricy at 35$ so Borage oil is probably the better alternative. If you cant get borage oil then Evening primrose oil is an option. I would stick to capsules instead of oils as their made for oral consumption so theres very little chance they'll have additives or extra ingredients.
Rosemary (Rosmarinus Officinalis)
Solubility/Dose unknown
Vehicle: Ethanol - PG (80/20)
Inhibits: AR, 5ar
Amazon UK - Swanson Rosemary 400mg 90 caps
Amazon US - Swanson Rosemary 400mg 90 caps
I havent tried Rosemary yet but it has been shown to work topically at reducing AR/5ar in mouse models that have testosterone induced alopecia. Be sure to check the other thread for any updates on my personal experiments with Rosemary.
Apple Polyphenols (Procyanidin B2)
Dose unknown
Soluble in water/ethanol
Inhibits: PKC
Amazon UK - Swanson Apple polyphenol 125mg 60 caps
Amazon US - Swanson Apple polyphenol 125mg 60 caps
I am yet to use Apple polyphenols but there is strong evidence to suggest it can promote hair growth when applied topically
Valproic Acid/Sodium Valproate
50mg/ml (water), 30mg/ml (ethanol)
Vehicle: Water/Distilled Water
Agonist: β-catenin (via inhibition)
Inhibits: GSK3β
UnitedPharmacies US - Sodium Valproate 200mg 10 tablets
4nrx UK - Sodium Valproate 200mg 10 tablets
I've not used Valproic acid yet but I've ordered some and will begin using it at 25mg/ml to start off with. Its a powerful GSK3b inhibitor and will be very synergistic with minox at increasing β-catenin levels. There are reports it can be quite irritating so thats something to keep in mind.
Polygonum Multiflorum (Fo-Ti)
Dose unknown
Solubility: Ethanol?
Agonist: SHH, β-catenin, FGF-7, IGF-1
Amazon UK Swanson Fo-Ti 500mg 60 caps
Amazon US Swanson Fo-Ti 500mg 60 caps
I havent used this nor have I seen any reports of it being used but I plan to test in sometime in the near future to see if it works.
Baicalin
Dose Unknown
Solubility: water (<1mg/ml), ethanol (<1mg/ml) (solubility increases with temperature)
Agonist: WNT/β-catenin
Puerarin (Kudzu extract)
Dose unknown
Solubility: Ethanol (increased with temperature and physical stirring)
Agonist: VEGF, β-catenin
Inhibits: 5ar (flower only), AR (flower only)
Amazon UK - Planetary Herbals Full Spectrum Kudzu Tablets, 60 caps
Amazon US - Planetary Herbals Full Spectrum Kudzu Tablets, 60 caps
Unfortuneately I couldnt find any extracts that contain only the flower which would have been ideal but the product I linked above has 100mg of the kudzu flower blended with the Root which isnt too bad. I havent tried this yet but the studies say its a potent AR/5ar antagonist and activates the PKA/AKT pathway which we know is good for proliferation and GSK3b inhibition.
----
Vehicle
80/20 Ethanol/Propylene Glycol
- 190 proof grain alcohol
not methanol or denatured alcohol/isopropyl/isopropanol
UK: Spirytus 95% £31 + £5 Sipping - They also ship to US but its $50 for shipping
US: Everclear if you can get it. (can only be bought in a select few states)
- 150 proof without additional ingredients/flavourings
If you cant find 190 proof then 75% is good enough
Propylene Glycol
UK: Amazon UK - Pick whichever is cheapest and is fairly high concentration
US: Amazon US
The science behind using Ethanol and PG is that the ethanol breaks down the skins lipid barrier and weakens the stratum corneum layers barrier function temporarily thus allowing molecules to pass through better. The propylene glycol helps keep the molecules from crystallizing and drying up and keeps soluble long enough to be absorbed. You can find the science in this thread in the Vehicles post. Try to avoid mixing high molecular weight molecules in the same solution as you'll reduce saturation of both. Using oils or creams immediately before or after the Ethanol solution might reduce ethanols lipid cutting ability - I tend to wait an hour or two before using oils.
Please do not post in this thread. This thread is for read-only purposes. The original thread is where you can quote posts from this thread if you have any questions or would like to discuss the science.
The original thread was becoming too big and it was becoming difficult for users to find the more important information which prompted the need for a new thread will all the research and protocols condensed into a read-only thread with titles so people can search for what they're after.
Please do not post in this thread.
This thread should only be used for posting research and not for any discussion whatsoever as it will only make it harder to find things for readers. If you would like to discuss anything in this thread or have any questions then please quote a post (ideally only a part) and post in the original thread linked above. I have a feeling someone is going to try to be a smartass and post in this thread anyway, so please - for everyones sake, do not post in this thread even if you have a compulsion to do so. If you would like to contribute some research then please run it by me first in the other thread so we can vigorously analyse the literature before writing up anything official. We only want research with supporting literature from multiple sources and research that is deemed important in understanding/treating AGA. You will not find bro-science or pseudo-science in here and I intend to keep it this way.
Treatments:
You can find all the research on the supplements/herbs and why I've recommended these dosages/vehicles, listed in this thread. If you want to search for something specific you might have to register to use the search thread function. Alternatively you can use this advanced Google search query to find posts in this thread.
Oleuropein
1mg-1.5mg/ml
Vehicle: Ethanol + PG (80/20)
Agonist: WNT10b, IGF-1, β-catenin
Inhibits: DKK-1
Amazon UK - Swanson Olive Leaf Extract Super Strength 750mg, 60 Capsules
Amazon UK - Swanson Olive Leaf Extract Super Strength 750mg, 60 Capsules
The extract above contains 150mg actual oleuropein so for a 50ml solution you'd use 1/3 of a capsule to achieve 1mg/ml. If you're going to use minox as a vehicle (which I do) then you'd use a little more than a third for 60ml of minox. Oleuropein has a fairly high molecular weight and will reduce the solubility of other molecules in the same solution so you might want to use this as a standalone mixture.
EGCG
5mg-15mg/ml
Vehicle: Ethanol - PG (80/20)
Agonist: β-catenin (via inhibition)
Inhibits: Axin, GSK3β, AR (mild), 5ar (not EGCG)
Amazon UK - Swanson Teavigo EGCG 150mg (actual) 30 caps
Amazon US - Swanson Teavigo EGCG 150mg (actual) 30 caps
You can use any brand of EGCG but I use teavigo since its got a higher concentration of EGCG. The other green tea brands will contain less EGCG but will contain other catechins that have the ability to inhibit 5ar. EGCG tends to degrade over time and degrades faster with higher humidity and temperatures so it's better to make smaller batches. You can use as much EGCG as you like but be sure not to oversaturate the solution because you'll only waste the excess. As for EGCGs AR inhibitory potency I'd guesstimate its around 30%. You can make up the rest by stacking it with a 5ar inhibitor like GLA which should be enough for the growth agonists to work properly.
Gamma Linoleic Acid (GLA) + Linoleic Acid
Soluble in Ethanol, Oil
Agonist: VEGF (safflower, LA), IGF-1 (LA)
Inhibits: 5ar, TGF-β1 (safflower)
Sonova 400 - GLA 400mg 60 caps
Amazon UK Solgar Borage Oil - 300mg GLA, 470mg LA 60 caps
Amazon US Solgar Borage Oil - 300mg GLA, 470mg LA 60 caps
I've been using Evening primrose oil mixed with minox for two weeks now and I've noticed slightly more vellus to terminal transitions. GLA/LA has alot of potential to inhibit 5ar quite potently. Borage seed extract contains more GLA than Evening primrose oil, but Sonova 400 contains almost double the amount of GLA in borage oil (with less LA: 200mg). Its quite pricy at 35$ so Borage oil is probably the better alternative. If you cant get borage oil then Evening primrose oil is an option. I would stick to capsules instead of oils as their made for oral consumption so theres very little chance they'll have additives or extra ingredients.
Rosemary (Rosmarinus Officinalis)
Solubility/Dose unknown
Vehicle: Ethanol - PG (80/20)
Inhibits: AR, 5ar
Amazon UK - Swanson Rosemary 400mg 90 caps
Amazon US - Swanson Rosemary 400mg 90 caps
I havent tried Rosemary yet but it has been shown to work topically at reducing AR/5ar in mouse models that have testosterone induced alopecia. Be sure to check the other thread for any updates on my personal experiments with Rosemary.
Apple Polyphenols (Procyanidin B2)
Dose unknown
Soluble in water/ethanol
Inhibits: PKC
Amazon UK - Swanson Apple polyphenol 125mg 60 caps
Amazon US - Swanson Apple polyphenol 125mg 60 caps
I am yet to use Apple polyphenols but there is strong evidence to suggest it can promote hair growth when applied topically
Valproic Acid/Sodium Valproate
50mg/ml (water), 30mg/ml (ethanol)
Vehicle: Water/Distilled Water
Agonist: β-catenin (via inhibition)
Inhibits: GSK3β
UnitedPharmacies US - Sodium Valproate 200mg 10 tablets
4nrx UK - Sodium Valproate 200mg 10 tablets
I've not used Valproic acid yet but I've ordered some and will begin using it at 25mg/ml to start off with. Its a powerful GSK3b inhibitor and will be very synergistic with minox at increasing β-catenin levels. There are reports it can be quite irritating so thats something to keep in mind.
Polygonum Multiflorum (Fo-Ti)
Dose unknown
Solubility: Ethanol?
Agonist: SHH, β-catenin, FGF-7, IGF-1
Amazon UK Swanson Fo-Ti 500mg 60 caps
Amazon US Swanson Fo-Ti 500mg 60 caps
I havent used this nor have I seen any reports of it being used but I plan to test in sometime in the near future to see if it works.
Baicalin
Dose Unknown
Solubility: water (<1mg/ml), ethanol (<1mg/ml) (solubility increases with temperature)
Agonist: WNT/β-catenin
Puerarin (Kudzu extract)
Dose unknown
Solubility: Ethanol (increased with temperature and physical stirring)
Agonist: VEGF, β-catenin
Inhibits: 5ar (flower only), AR (flower only)
Amazon UK - Planetary Herbals Full Spectrum Kudzu Tablets, 60 caps
Amazon US - Planetary Herbals Full Spectrum Kudzu Tablets, 60 caps
Unfortuneately I couldnt find any extracts that contain only the flower which would have been ideal but the product I linked above has 100mg of the kudzu flower blended with the Root which isnt too bad. I havent tried this yet but the studies say its a potent AR/5ar antagonist and activates the PKA/AKT pathway which we know is good for proliferation and GSK3b inhibition.
----
Vehicle
80/20 Ethanol/Propylene Glycol
- 190 proof grain alcohol
not methanol or denatured alcohol/isopropyl/isopropanol
UK: Spirytus 95% £31 + £5 Sipping - They also ship to US but its $50 for shipping
US: Everclear if you can get it. (can only be bought in a select few states)
- 150 proof without additional ingredients/flavourings
If you cant find 190 proof then 75% is good enough
Propylene Glycol
UK: Amazon UK - Pick whichever is cheapest and is fairly high concentration
US: Amazon US
The science behind using Ethanol and PG is that the ethanol breaks down the skins lipid barrier and weakens the stratum corneum layers barrier function temporarily thus allowing molecules to pass through better. The propylene glycol helps keep the molecules from crystallizing and drying up and keeps soluble long enough to be absorbed. You can find the science in this thread in the Vehicles post. Try to avoid mixing high molecular weight molecules in the same solution as you'll reduce saturation of both. Using oils or creams immediately before or after the Ethanol solution might reduce ethanols lipid cutting ability - I tend to wait an hour or two before using oils.
Please do not post in this thread. This thread is for read-only purposes. The original thread is where you can quote posts from this thread if you have any questions or would like to discuss the science.
Comment