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  1. #21
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    Can someone explain to me the excitement here... I fail to see why this approach is novel. Fin in your body reduces DHT. If you have problems with fin or don't respond to it orally why would this change in any way?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mowingdown View Post
    Can someone explain to me the excitement here... I fail to see why this approach is novel. Fin in your body reduces DHT. If you have problems with fin or don't respond to it orally why would this change in any way?
    This should only reduce DHT in the scalp and very little in the rest of your body - so if you have side effects from fin, you might not have sides from this. If you do not respond to fin orally, you probably wont respond to this either(Just my guess).

    The goal is to have a fin-like treatment without the sides.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by halloaa View Post
    This should only reduce DHT in the scalp and very little in the rest of your body - so if you have side effects from fin, you might not have sides from this. If you do not respond to fin orally, you probably wont respond to this either(Just my guess).

    The goal is to have a fin-like treatment without the sides.
    Which is a major win for guys like me that get sides

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by halloaa View Post
    This should only reduce DHT in the scalp and very little in the rest of your body - so if you have side effects from fin, you might not have sides from this. If you do not respond to fin orally, you probably wont respond to this either(Just my guess).

    The goal is to have a fin-like treatment without the sides.
    Like Pixels, I also get side effects. I actually saw such an improvement in my hair during my time on it as well, which is a great shame. However, what I mean is why is that the case? I know you're saying this is why they want to do it, but what is the actual mechanism preventing systemic absorption that leads to side effects? WHY are there no side effects? They aren't doing any studies to show this are they? A private surgical (albeit one of the best) is on record saying it's not worth it to carry out trials...That's shady to me.

    I'd love to get excited about this but it's not worth it in my opinion until we are presented real evidence.

  5. #25
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    I just read their deleted blog post again and it's actually very confusing.

    The first thing that should be pointed out is that the topical finasteride you can order right now from the Italian pharmacy is actually not the "new" finasteride topical gel that supposedly reduces the serum finasteride level too 1/18th.

    Another thing I didn't notice initially was the weight percentage for the prescription of the topical finasteride which is supposedly 2.5wt. So 2.5wt in 1ml (1mL=1000mg [density(water)=1g/mL]) would be 25mg. 25mg/18 are still 1,39mg that would go systemic. So whoever uses this topical would just be as good off popping finasteride pills.
    Though in their prescription it's also stated that only 5% in comparison to 1mg oral finasteride would go systemic, which would be 0,05mg. This is just very confusing and contradictory... I hope they straighten this out when they, as Hasson & Wong stated it elsewhere, will clarify things in the next "6-8 weeks".

    However, I still don't think this is all bulls**t they are planing on releasing. Dermal localized and prolonged drug-delivery systems have been around for a while now and are still subject of fundamental research. A brief glimpse into this field revealed the following:

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...9.03100.x/full:
    "... They also have the potential to target drugs into the pilosebaceous structures and hence they have an additional advantage for treatment of hair follicle-associated disorders. ... The similarity of lipid composition of liposomes and membranes in the epidermis enables the liposomes to penetrate into the epidermal barrier to a higher extent as compared with other application forms and so do the compounds encapsulated into the liposomes. This may result in an increased drug absorption into the epidermis and a decreased clearance of drug from the epidermis resulting in a much longer sustained drug release and reduction of drug absorption into the blood. This is why liposomes may act as drug transporters as well asdrug targeters.3 This may lead to increased effectiveness,reduction in side-effects and a higher compliance of patientsto treatment.3 Liposomes have also the potential to targetdrugs into the pilosebaceous structures and hence they canbe employed for treatment of hair follicle- and sebaceousgland-associated disorders.22–24"

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...69409X07000403:
    "Due to the lower risk of systemic side effects topical treatment of skin disease appears favourable, yet the stratum corneum counteracts the penetration of xenobiotics into viable skin. Particulate carrier systems may mean an option to improve dermal penetration. Since epidermal lipids are found in high amounts within the penetration barrier, lipid carriers attaching themselves to the skin surface and allowing lipid exchange between the outermost layers of the stratum corneum and the carrier appear promising."

    Further reading:
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...69409X95000194
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19075893
    http://www.jdsjournal.com/article/S0...508-7/abstract
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...69409X0200114X
    http://link.springer.com/article/10....105-003-0513-6

  6. #26
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    Wow, thanks for the comprehensive reply Stratowich. First, yeah that's not adding up at all and it is quite confusing considering if this is as great as it's claimed to be they would be rolling in cash. You would think they would get the basic concentrations for their own product correct.

    I appreciate you doing the work for them, your research into available publications certainly seems to suggest we have good chances with topicals in liposome form. Do you have a link to the deleted blog post?

  7. #27
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    Also, Fin blocks 5AR, not DHT. Do we even know if 5AR can even be inhibited at the follicular level?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mowingdown View Post
    Do you have a link to the deleted blog post?
    Here you go:
    Quote Originally Posted by stratowich View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by mowingdown View Post
    Also, Fin blocks 5AR, not DHT. Do we even know if 5AR can even be inhibited at the follicular level?
    Not that well read up on signaling path ways and nuclear receptors, but will look into that in the next weeks as I'm interested in an answer to your question as well.

  9. #29
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    This is great news for us reckless fools who achieved great hair on fin at the cost of lingering limpness. Jokes aside, it took me 6 years to recover from fin-sides and I vowed to never touch the drug again. Trust, impotence is shameful in-fact, hairloss is shameful in theory. Nevertheless, I would touch this drug...

    What's the hold up? Did they pull the plug on this or is it in progress?

  10. #30
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    This is great news for us reckless fools who achieved great hair on fin at the cost of lingering limpness. Jokes aside, it took me 6 years to recover from fin-sides and I vowed to never touch the drug again. Trust, impotence is shameful in-fact, hairloss is shameful in theory. Nevertheless, I would touch this drug...

    What's the hold up? Did they pull the plug on this or is it in progress?

    People who have tried it experienced the same side effects that you would get from the oral finasteride

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