Is DHT the only culprit?

[newuser1]

Yes I know "genetics" is the true culprit. But my question is if you in theory were able to reduce your DHT levels in your body and/or scalp by 100% (zero DHT) could you still experience MPB hair loss?

This begs the question that if fin/propecia can no longer keep up with your MPB, could going on something more powerful like Avodart could help give you more time.

[jamesst11]

I reduced my DHT to the almost the lowest "acceptable" level on finasteride and have experienced nothing but rapid acceleration of MPB over the 9.5 months I have been on it. Literally have scalp inflammation, great hair fall and suffocating vellous crap hairs in return... I am definitely considering avodart, the problem is finding a doc that will prescribe it. I have a feeling though that if finasteride lowered my DHT that greatly and I am experiencing acceleration of MPB, then the major culprit must not be DHT itself, but the upregulation of it's receptors.

[BaldingHelpMe]

I reduced my DHT to the almost the lowest "acceptable" level on finasteride and

Have you done blood test for your DHT level? Maybe your DHT level might still be high? I plan to do a blood test in a few months as well.

[Pavi]

DHT is clearly not the only factor in MPB. If this were true, propecia would be the cure for hair loss. We would simply pop the pill and never lose hair again. Many other factors go into MPB, many pathways that we as people don't even understand. If we fully understood the mechanisms of balding we would have very effective treatments if not a cure out by now.

[Pavi]

Also, if DHT was the only factor to hair loss rogaine/minoxidil wouldn't be effective at all because it doesn't do anything to DHT-clearly minoxidil is an effective treatment for MPB and proves that DHT is not the only culprit in MPB

[BaldingHelpMe]

Also, if DHT was the only factor to hair loss rogaine/minoxidil wouldn't be effective at all because it doesn't do anything to DHT-clearly minoxidil is an effective treatment for MPB and proves that DHT is not the only culprit in MPB

Is minoxidil an anti-androgen?

[jamesst11]

Have you done blood test for your DHT level? Maybe your DHT level might still be high? I plan to do a blood test in a few months as well.

yes I did, it was right by the lowest level acceptable, super low... still losing hair, WAY more aggressively than before fin.

[jamesst11]

Is minoxidil an anti-androgen?

No, minoxidil doesn't do anything to androgens, it's recognized as a "growth stimulant" meaning it keeps hair in the anagen (growing) phase.

[BaldingHelpMe]

yes I did, it was right by the lowest level acceptable, super low... still losing hair, WAY more aggressively than before fin.

Hmm... interesting... are you sure your hair loss is genetic male pattern baldness? It's probably TE I guess? Does either side of your parents have MPB?

[Pavi]

No, minoxidil doesn't do anything to androgens, it's recognized as a "growth stimulant" meaning it keeps hair in the anagen (growing) phase.

Minoxidil can take a hair that is being miniaturized and take it back to somewhat it's original thickness. Minoxidil obviously is not just a growth stimulant if it can reverse the balding process.

[gchr]

so if a person gets bloodwork done and results show no high level of DHT, propecia etc is basically useless

then how does one proceed to fight hair loss if everything in their blood work comes out normal?

[Pavi]

so if a person gets bloodwork done and results show no high level of DHT, propecia etc is basically useless

then how does one proceed to fight hair loss if everything in their blood work comes out normal?

Minoxidil and low level laser therapy

[burtandernie]

Why hair is sensitive to DHT has always been the real question. Once your hair starts the MPB journey taking fin/dut might not get the same result had you taken it prior to MPB ever starting. The timing might be important, maybe testosterone is enough to keep the process rolling in certain men. Do receptors or whatever mechanism androgens react with adapt to lower androgens over time? Could be any of it really but might not just be DHT levels alone

[newuser1]

thanks for the replies

The reasoning for my question...

I'm really just trying to figure out if I should move on to Avodart after being on Propecia for many years. It worked for a while and even saw some minor thickening in earlier years but my loss has accelerated in the past year (or even much less time) and I get no straight answers from derms, HT doctors, or otherwise experts. I've got occasional itching/irritation and notice a considerable amount of shedding.

This is all while my DHT levels are tested as low range because propecia is "working." Admit I don't have a baseline before I started propecia/fin however.


*My options I've laid out are this:

1. Up the fin dose
- some anecdotal accounts on here and other forums this helps but scientifically going beyond 1mg is likely to do nothing

2. Switch/add/transition to Avodart (dutasteride)
- not going to reduce 100% of scalp DHT but it is considered adequately more effective than fin, and many stories on here show improvement after switching to avodart when fin wasn't working anymore
- getting a DR to prescribe is a whole different story

3. Add minox in hopes it will thicken or slow loss at least
- I've held off partially because I've been dreading the awful shed most guys get
- Opinions I've gotten is that minox/rogaine is only marginally effective, nothing special, even though it can work well when combined with fin

4. Add other "crap" that may or may not work (LLLT, PRP, RU, Sprio, shampoos, etc)
- most of this seems to be a waste of time and money and the dosages, quality of treatment, or effectiveness is far from proven


#2 is the one I'm leaning toward

[Pavi]

The reasoning for my question...

I'm really just trying to figure out if I should move on to Avodart after being on Propecia for many years. It worked for a while and even saw some minor thickening in earlier years but my loss has accelerated in the past year (or even much less time) and I get no straight answers from derms, HT doctors, or otherwise experts. I've got occasional itching/irritation and notice a considerable amount of shedding.

This is all while my DHT levels are tested as low range because propecia is "working." Admit I don't have a baseline before I started propecia/fin however.


*My options I've laid out are this:

1. Up the fin dose
- some anecdotal accounts on here and other forums this helps but scientifically going beyond 1mg is likely to do nothing

2. Switch/add/transition to Avodart (dutasteride)
- not going to reduce 100% of scalp DHT but it is considered adequately more effective than fin, and many stories on here show improvement after switching to avodart when fin wasn't working anymore
- getting a DR to prescribe is a whole different story

3. Add minox in hopes it will thicken or slow loss at least
- I've held off partially because I've been dreading the awful shed most guys get
- Opinions I've gotten is that minox/rogaine is only marginally effective, nothing special, even though it can work well when combined with fin

4. Add other "crap" that may or may not work (LLLT, PRP, RU, Sprio, shampoos, etc)
- most of this seems to be a waste of time and money and the dosages, quality of treatment, or effectiveness is far from proven


#2 is the one I'm leaning toward

I had a shed on minoxidil but it really wan not that noticeable to other people. I noticed it and freaked out. I got stressed out and made the situation worse. Min may shed your hair but it won't be cosmetically noticeable to anyone but you