The rockstar/hobo diet

[Velvetmonkey]

And no, I'm not counting a few dozen people claiming to see this alleged correlation between homeless people.

Did Jerry Seinfeld and Ricky Gervais (as mentioned earlier) just happen to be two of these "a few dozen people"? Or is it maybe so that they are two out of perhaps millions of people that have made the same observation?

The fact that there is a few dozen threads about it just means that a few dozen people made the effort to create a thread about the topic.

I did a google keyword search for "homeless hair". 90 people google that phrase per month. So that's a bit more than a few dozen. And thats only the people that bothered to google it. 99 out of 100 people that make the same observation will likely just think "Wow, it seems like homeless people have unusually good hair" and then go about their day without ever googling or starting up threads about it.

[enigma23]

There's not a single human disease for which there are no contributing environmental factors. Why do baldies get so angry when you point that out?

I have no idea. I think that it's either a misunderstand of what environmental factors are (and the effect to which they can have on health), or its a willful stubbornness to not accept that there might have been anything they could've done differently to change the rate or outcome (other than taking drugs, which some are exceptionally vocal about).

[enigma23]

Did Jerry Seinfeld and Ricky Gervais (as mentioned earlier) just happen to be two of these "a few dozen people"? Or is it maybe so that they are two out of perhaps millions of people that have made the same observation?

Although I feel strongly that diet plays some role in this, I'm not about to jump to this conclusion. You have to be aware that humans are awesome at confirmation biases, and will find patterns where none exist, and discount all evidence to the contrary. So just because some, maybe even millions, believe this the hobo thing to be true, does not make it so. A large cross-sectional sample could help determine if there is actually a correlation there, but it wouldn't prove causation.

[enigma23]

I would disagree that professional athletes who have sub 8 percent body fat in many instances achieved those results without strict nutrition, but that's fine.

We don't disagree on this point. However, it is possible to achieve sub 8 percent on a unhealthy diet. But it is more likely that professional athletes -usually- are eating a strict diet, with the ends being PERFORMANCE, not LONG-TERM HEALTH. They can be, and most likely usually are, uncorrelated.

You have a hypothesis that there would be a highly specialized diet or rare food that would constitute a "hair-sparing" treatment. But there's really no evidence to support this idea. You could just as easily theorize that certain extreme high or low temperatures of water or sunlight or carbon dioxide being exposed to the scalp have a positive or negative effect.

Actually, there is plenty of evidence that diet, CO2 and sunlight all -can- have negative effects on inflammation. And, as we should all know now, inflammation without a doubt does play a role in MBP; causative effects have been demonstrated in a few papers.

[Velvetmonkey]

Although I feel strongly that diet plays some role in this, I'm not about to jump to this conclusion. You have to be aware that humans are awesome at confirmation biases, and will find patterns where none exist, and discount all evidence to the contrary. So just because some, maybe even millions, believe this the hobo thing to be true, does not make it so. A large cross-sectional sample could help determine if there is actually a correlation there, but it wouldn't prove causation.

True. But I just don't see any good reason why hobos would be singled out for having great hair.

I could imagine lots of other traits that could be associated with homlessness, for example alcoholism, malnourishment, dirty clothing etc. But there is no logical reason to associate homeless people with having great hair - yet lots of people seem to do just that.

[enigma23]

True. But I just don't see any good reason why hobos would be singled out for having great hair.

Velvetmonkey, you don't know that they do. Dozens, hundreds, even thousands of people saying they "feel" hobos have great hair is not a confirmation of anything. Until some large study is done to find the rates of MPB in hobos versus the general population, there is zero evidence that they do.

And don't go looking for it either. Because just like the day after you buy a new car, you'll see that same model and color -everywhere-, when you actively have an outcome (or object) in mind, you'll elevate the weight of observations of it, and discount the observations that disprove it.

[unbalding]

Velvetmonkey, you don't know that they do. Dozens, hundreds, even thousands of people saying they "feel" hobos have great hair is not a confirmation of anything. Until some large study is done to find the rates of MPB in hobos versus the general population, there is zero evidence that they do.

And don't go looking for it either. Because just like the day after you buy a new car, you'll see that same model and color -everywhere-, when you actively have an outcome (or object) in mind, you'll elevate the weight of observations of it, and discount the observations that disprove it.

Fasting is good for reducing insulin resistance which is a contributing factor in hair loss. It makes sense then that a segment of society that is forced to fast on a regular basis would have lower rates of baldness than the rest of society. Of course there are still bald homeless people because this is just one factor among many, and not all homeless people will have good insulin sensitivity either. The scientifically illiterate will continue to ignore it all though because they saw a bald guy under a bridge once; just like they will continue smoking because they knew a 90 year old smoker once without lung cancer.

[enigma23]

Fasting is good for reducing insulin resistance which is a contributing factor in hair loss. It makes sense then that a segment of society that is forced to fast on a regular basis would have lower rates of baldness than the rest of society.

Ah the Internet, one of the best places to watch fights break out between people that agree.

[burtandernie]

No, genes, by definition, are programmed responses to environmental cues. These cues can be intracellular, or extracellular, or due to influences outside the body entirely, but they are in response to something. Your entire body is just a computer of sorts, it doesn't do anything that it wasn't "programmed" to do, and isn't responding to (accurately, such as the pancreas secreting insulin in response to the detection of carbohydrates in preparation to store the excess glucose, or inaccurately, such as a whole host of systems that go fubar in response to all of the xenoestrogens in the environment today).

The problem with diets though is there is (not yet) one "true" diet. Mainly because no organization has enough money to hold a statistically large group of humans up in a hospital with controlled eating for 40 years. Most food/nutrition science/papers are based on food surveys that rely on memory (which is shit) and look backwards for the current health conditions. This is mostly useless, as it can't separate cause and effect. It might be that spinach, although otherwise considered "healthy", could be a net loss for hair. We don't know, because no one's tried to separate that variable.

My argument is that 1 percent environmental response would fit your definition or it could be 99 percent. You and I have no idea which it is. If it were 1 percent than most of the MPB process would happen on its own regardless of what you could physically control.

[unbalding]

Ah the Internet, one of the best places to watch fights break out between people that agree.

I was agreeing with you, not arguing with you. I guess I wasn't clear, sorry man.

[Velvetmonkey]

Ok, here's something even less scientific. I am aware of that so keep your stones in your pocket.

I was curious to see some hairlines of people following a hunter gatherer eating pattern. So I googled "old Kalahari bushmen".

I did see one picture of a bald guy. But the rest had hairlines like an 8 year old.

Just found it a little interesting.

[Muzzle]

At least, i think there's no relation between drinking alcohol and hair loss

My father drinks a lot, he was NW7 at the age of 25, lol

[burtandernie]

You know I noticed a lot of capricorns meaning people born december through january happen to have really good hair. Maybe the month your born has some protective effect on your hair? I just notice that a lot so it could be.

[unbalding]

You know I noticed a lot of capricorns meaning people born december through january happen to have really good hair. Maybe the month your born has some protective effect on your hair? I just notice that a lot so it could be.

First of all, you didn't notice that. Secondly, do you have no scientific curiosity? This is how progress is made. You noticed things, create a theory, and then test that theory using the scientific method. Frankly I've never noticed it, but it's not stupid for the OP to make an observation like this.

[burtandernie]

First of all, you didn't notice that. Secondly, do you have no scientific curiosity? This is how progress is made. You noticed things, create a theory, and then test that theory using the scientific method. Frankly I've never noticed it, but it's not stupid for the OP to make an observation like this.

Maybe I did notice it. My observation has as much scientific evidence as his observation that is almost none. I understand the scientific method but throwing out the theory piece is the low hanging fruit backing it up with evidence is much harder. Unless I missed the studies/evidence in this thread I fail to see the distinction between my observation and his or why his is anymore credible. Use your scientific method and prove it to me and we will maybe see some progress you mentioned. So far I see the theory but where are the test results?