lets vote who thinks replicel will be available in 2018 and why?

[Qub1]

That is so sad to hear for high NW including me.
Let's hope for the best in the future

The presentation posted above was a presentation by Replicel, not Shiseido. If I remember correctly, it was Shiseido which promised a full cure. Shiseido were the ones to include IPS cells in their technology, thus attacking the problem from all angles. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm still hopeful Shiseido will be the one to provide us with a full cure, and not Replicel (so even though both their research is based on the same technology, Shiseido has built on top of that and improved it even further).

[Sogeking]

Hello,

I'm a bit lost...
A few month, they spooke about a real cure with good regrowth...And now there speak about no regrowth but just maintenance ???

If this stops hair loss on it self as they are claiming it would still be something valuable.

[Qub1]

If this stops hair loss on it self as they are claiming it would still be something valuable.

I agree, if it stops hairloss it would be a viable option, which when combined with other treatments such as a hair transplant might provide a full "cure". I am however wondering whether a hair transplant would require a new set of injections though, so whether it would be best to get a HT first and the injections afterwards. I guess we'll hear more from them on such issues at the miami congress.

[CAlex]

It would be great for anyone just entering HL. If it basically just makes all your hair immune to slowly dying off. Sadly this would almost guarantee that NO future companies would try to develop a regrowth method as the the ratio of men needing treatment would instantly be on the decline. People already nw3 plus would never be able to get back to where they want.

I always thought this was supposed to cause regrowth. Bittersweet I guess. Will save so many from having to go through HL but at the same time it will keep any regrowth treatments from being researched* {imo}

[runrunrun]

Hmmm, so, is it possible to release to the market in 2018??

[rdawg]

Here an update from them;

https://youtu.be/ejv6qTyedzs?t=11m25s

They expect Shisheido to start in a few weeks. Replicel is aiming for next year.

Check how he says that they are basically directing this treatment to be a "functional cure" and talks about maintaining baseline status unlike rogaine.

Seems more directed like a preventative treatment. It's really good that they doing such a lengthy trial. Only that will determine if it can actually maintain.

That's not what I got from it, they averaged a maintained 14% growth in 70% of the people in the trial(a very small safety trial, with very small dosage) It's a functional cure so far in that at a low dose people maintain unlike Rogaine which fades.

If they can raise the dose(inject more cells), theoretically they can give a higher regrowth and complete maintanence.

To me it sounds like they ideally want it to be a replacement for Hair transplants, instead of transplanting follicles, they transplant cells in hopes that those cells all bind and grow.

Very interesting product to watch and at the very least Shisedo is starting within the next few weeks so we should get an update sometime next year.

[Renee]

DSc cells should be able to create new follicles. Dr jahoda took his dsc cells implanted it into his wife's arm and that grew hair. Now dsc cells have the same problem as dermal papilla when they are grown they loose their inductive ability. If replicel has figured out how to culture the cells and keep it's inductivity, it should work.

[baldybald]

Now if it is only for maintaining, replicel will not last for long. The reason is that setipiprant may come to the market and of course everyone will choose pill instead of replicel because it is easier and that is why if replicel will only maintain without re growth then it is not a smart thing to launch

[HelloVera]

I kinda agree Baldybald why would anybody go thru a procedure like that that would have the same effect as a pill or topical? especially if its going to cost the same as a transplant but with zero growth. When i looked at it before it sounded like it creates regrowth but not so much at the moment, perhaps Shiseido have got further then Replicel

[cratusg]

I kinda agree Baldybald why would anybody go thru a procedure like that that would have the same effect as a pill or topical? especially if its going to cost the same as a transplant but with zero growth. When i looked at it before it sounded like it creates regrowth but not so much at the moment, perhaps Shiseido have got further then Replicel

Yeah but replicel might be 1 or 2 injections and Seti is for a lifetime. Lazy people would rather take the easy way.

[TJT]

That's not what I got from it, they averaged a maintained 14% growth in 70% of the people in the trial(a very small safety trial, with very small dosage) It's a functional cure so far in that at a low dose people maintain unlike Rogaine which fades.

If they can raise the dose(inject more cells), theoretically they can give a higher regrowth and complete maintanence.

To me it sounds like they ideally want it to be a replacement for Hair transplants, instead of transplanting follicles, they transplant cells in hopes that those cells all bind and grow.

Very interesting product to watch and at the very least Shisedo is starting within the next few weeks so we should get an update sometime next year.

Yes, the video said nothing of it only being a "maintenance" solution or anything like that, and in fact even the low dosage proved that it increased (not only maintained) density, and that was only a safety trial. It's a functional cure (it doesn't eliminate the base mechanism of pattern baldness, but functionally cures it since the new follicles don't succumb to the mechanism).
Essentially he said absolutely nothing new or different that Replicel hasn't already said in the past. Also, note how he says "we think"; he doesn't know - nobody knows because Phase 2 hasn't started and completed. David Hall said the same thing in this interview: http://www.midasletter.com/2014/10/r...rview-podcast/. With increased dosage and repeat injections, it could be a full functional cure that increases density to original, or may not improve on the Phase 1 results (doubtful). It all depends on the percentage of follicles that the treatment can render androgen-insensitive, which nobody knows at this point. Anything else at this point is speculation and guys with a less-than-complete grasp of English (no offense) drawing their own conclusions from the interviews and presentations they see.

[Swooping]

What is a maintenance treatment actually? We classify finasteride as a maintenance treatment. Yet it does improve hair counts in many people. In my opinion we can classify something as a maintenance treatment if it will actually keep you at least at (or above) baseline levels for a long time. Finasteride does this in the overwhelming majority of people (5+ years).

Indeed, they didn't exactly classify it as a "maintenance solution". However the way how they present everything it seems they are aiming for a treatment that is mainly preventative with some improvement imo. Basically just like finasteride. Let's not downplay the significance of such a cell based treatment. A young kid could just get some injections and be done for a few years or maybe permanently. That is highly convenient and side effect free. Would be absolutely huge. The market value would be insane too. Treatments like cb-03-01 and setipiprant wouldn't stand a chance. Finasteride would be history.

Now why do they go with a lengthy trial of 39 months? Seems obvious to me. To actually establish if it can act as a "maintenance" treatment. To actually establish if the injections can provide stability to stay above baseline levels for a longer period of time. This is where their primary hypothese is based on anyway. Repopulate the DP niche with androgen insensitive cells by injecting DSC. It will also give them enough time to play with dosage and frequency of injections and such. And it's crucial I repeat crucial to undertake a lengthy trial to establish this. A 1 year trial won't tell you much about this. Minoxidil would keep you above baseline for 1 year too however we know that not a long time after you will probably go under baseline and continue balding. A 104 week open study was actually done recently about this; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26387973

RESULTS: In Group 1, f-TAHW and f-TAHC showed a statistically significant increase from baseline to week 52 and week 76, respectively, returning to values comparable to baseline at week 104

You all get the point. Also they are going to test on people with thinning hair and not extensively bald people. I find that vague. I mean someone who is NW3 is basically extensively bald in his temple areas. His goal would be to fill up that area with hair, because it's completely devoid of hair. A NW6 would have the same goals but in a NW6 pattern. With thinning hair in my opinion they are more directing to some hair follicles that can somewhat be "saved" to name it like that. Just like finasteride can do.

Androgen sensitive cells. Androgen sensitive cells will be present in the resident hair follicles of people suffering from AGA. However, the DSC cells injected are derived from follicles at the back of the scalp that are androgen insensitive. The objective is to introduce enough DSC cells to the follicle that the properties of the injected cells are dominant. Over time, as the resident androgen sensitive hair follicle cells become senescent/die off, we anticipate the DSC cells will become progressively more dominant. Recent evidence indicates that a subset of cells in the cup region are responsible for repopulating other HF cells including DP (Rahmani et al. Developmental Cell. 2014 Dec; 31: 543-58). In theory, the injected ‘androgen insensitive’ DSC cells can repopulate DS and DP with ‘androgen insensitive’ cells.

Due to the methodology employed using our injector device, and because we will be injecting people with thinning hair and not extensively bald people, it is simple migration of cells to resident follicles and their subsequent enlargement which is expected.

Participants will remain in the trial for approximately 39 months.

It's all speculation though, indeed. We can only wait till the end results. Their phase 1 is absolute sh*t obviously and says nothing besides the fact that it's very bad. Let's hope for the better. And due to the above reasons it's smart of them to undertake such a lengthy trial which is a good thing.

[Sogeking]

Yup Swooping said it well. If they prove it as a good maintenance treatment it would still be very valuable, especially for those in early stages of hairloss.
Besides if this does stop hair loss effectively, then hair transplants seem a much favorable option for those above NW5.

[TJT]

Indeed, they didn't exactly classify it as a "maintenance solution". However the way how they present everything it seems they are aiming for a treatment that is mainly preventative with some improvement imo.

I'm glad that you're acknowledging "IMO", because these are indeed just your assumptions, which may or may not be correct. At high dosage and with repeat injections (maybe ten instead of two), there may be full regrowth. We will not know until they try, and you're right, it's extremely important that they trial for the long 39 months. If the second injection improves on the results of the first, then the results are cumulative. They wouldn't claim that it will bring all hair back at this time because they don't have the data to support that right now.

Also they are going to test on people with thinning hair and not extensively bald people. I find that vague. I mean someone who is NW3 is basically extensively bald in his temple areas. His goal would be to fill up that area with hair, because it's completely devoid of hair. A NW6 would have the same goals but in a NW6 pattern. With thinning hair in my opinion they are more directing to some hair follicles that can somewhat be "saved" to name it like that.

I agree it's ambiguous. Is a CLASSIC Norwood 3 "thinning hair"? Not really, it's thick hair and some bald scalp. In the classic Norwood progression the hairs at the hairline go from thick to gone very quickly as the hairline advances. The term "thinning hair" implies diffuse thinning. If their treatment works best on thinning but present hair, then it would work best on diffuse thinners. For instance it may bring a NW6 diffuse thinner back to NW1, while having no effect on a classic NW3 with good density. Just some interesting possibilities, but of course it's all a guessing game at this point.

[dutchguyhanging]

Yup Swooping said it well. If they prove it as a good maintenance treatment it would still be very valuable, especially for those in early stages of hairloss.
Besides if this does stop hair loss effectively, then hair transplants seem a much favorable option for those above NW5.

i told many times here but doesnt hurt to say it one more time. In quantum mechanics there is no such thing as "stopping hair loss".
you cant just stop the behaviour of matter and its interactions with energy. It can go 2 ways either improvement or loss.
Fin or minox is just stealing time or slowing the rate of hairloss. For some fin users hairloss speed is at bare minimum means you dont feel it cosmetically.
If replicel results would be like fin, then i m sure it wont work for everyone and at the end people here would still shout for the cure. And yes once you are NW3, you will eventually be Nw5 or above. So you cant just maintain it forever...

again i am repeating, you CAN NOT STOP hairloss. you