Propecia side affects Merck or bladtruth won't tell you about

[topt]

I don't listen to Spencer and Joe regularly, but what PayDay said about them rings much more true to me based on what I know of them than what was originally stated in this post.

I don't believe that the drug is the miracle worker for everyone like some people would want you to believe. However, I also don't think that it's nearly as bad as some of the naysayers let on either. No drug is perfect, no study is perfect. Every single doctor has to go over the potential side effects, so we all know the risks that are involved when we take them.

I admit that I've been fortunate enough to not have experienced any side effects, and for that I am extremely grateful. However, I'm not going to go on and on that "This drug is safe for everyone! Take it!" And the truth of the matter is, I don't see people who are pro-Propecia even doing that. We all admit that there are risks.

What is more alarming to me are the scare tactics that the anti-Propecia group use to try and scare perfectly good candidates away from the drug. As GNX perfectly demonstrated, many guys who have side effects will then automatically jump to the irrational conclusion that everyone should stay away from the drug. Instead of the rational "Dangit. I guess I'm one of the ones vulnerable to side effects. It must not be for me," they react with "Well I got sides and a friend I know got sides and I read online about this other guy that got sides so EVERYONE should stay away from this toxic drug it will give you side effects and ruin your life." I think that mindset is just as harmful as anyone claiming/implying that the drug is 100% safe.

Point of the story is: We should all be more careful with our words. The drug is a valuable tool for many men in the fight against hair loss, and many, many men take it and experience no problems at all. My advice to anyone considering it is to always understand the risks, then try a small dosage and see how your body responds to it. If it works for you, great. If it doesn't, discontinue taking it.

I am a patient advocate for Dr. Parsa Mohebi in Los Angeles, CA. My opinions/comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Dr. Mohebi and his staff.

Could you tell me who is a perfectly good candidate ? Do you know who wont get permanent sides before starting the drug ?

[PayDay]

I have not listened to every show made, but Ive heard enough to form a general consensus of the show. Spencer has said that Propecia is akin to women taking birth control pills that harmlessly changes their hormones. On other occasions he's said the drug gets bashed on the internet too much. But the internet is where the truth comes out, not what you read from some biased pharma's clinical trials.

The problem I think many people have is they dont realize problems they are having are a direct result of taking the drug. For example, I had no idea propecia was causing sleeping disorders for years because I assumed it was due to my naturally aging body changing. It wasnt until I stopped and noticed how much better my sleeping was that I put two and two together.

“Spencer has said that Propecia is akin to women taking birth control pills that harmlessly changes their hormones.”

What?? You don’t listen to the show! I do and have listened to every show for many years. Spencer actually talks about how much damage birth control pills can do to women, including long term and sometimes permanent sexual sides effects that doctors or the media never talk about. “Harmlessly changes their hormones” Lol! He’s probably the only person I've ever heard who talks about the dangers of the pill including, sexual disfunction, possible death from blood clots and certain caners yet birth control is prescribed to young women like “ candy” as he says. Dude if you actually ever listened to the show you would know that. LOL!!

[JoeTillman]

Propecia use runs the risk, for some patients, of various side effects that patients should consider before taking the medication. Are they as common as some say? Not in my experience and my experience expands much further than my own use of the medication. Does this mean the sides don't exist? Of course not.

If there is any question or misinformation being spread about my position on this medication, after having 11 years of experience and dealing with literally THOUSANDS of patients then let those questions and misinformation stand corrected here and now.

Any claims to the contrary are now rendered moot.

[topt]

I mean I dont get it; how can a person decide to take this or not; you have Joe Tillman saying one thing and here is a copy post from ********************** from Dr. Blake Bloxham

"I'm never the guy who doubt studies, and I think side effects are many times amplified by things like the internet, TV ads for class action lawsuits, et cetera. However, I don't feel this way about the side effects related to finasteride.

Frankly, I've seen far, far too many cases of patients with persistent sexual side effects years and even decades after stopping the medication.

Dr. Blake Bloxham
hair transplant surgeon, Feller and Bloxham
"

Its just impossible to have such an opposite experience so I dont get it what is the agenda here. I hate to say it but someone is not telling the truth.

[chongmet]

I mean I dont get it; how can a person decide to take this or not; you have Joe Tillman saying one thing and here is a copy post from ********************** from Dr. Blake Bloxham

"I'm never the guy who doubt studies, and I think side effects are many times amplified by things like the internet, TV ads for class action lawsuits, et cetera. However, I don't feel this way about the side effects related to finasteride.

Frankly, I've seen far, far too many cases of patients with persistent sexual side effects years and even decades after stopping the medication.

Dr. Blake Bloxham
hair transplant surgeon, Feller and Bloxham
"

Its just impossible to have such an opposite experience so I dont get it what is the agenda here. I hate to say it but someone is not telling the truth.

I understand you. To me - even if 10000 people here say that they suffered absoultely none sides from fin, it's enough that 2000 will say that they have suffered PERMANENT EFFECTS and I'll just not take this med like never. Lets be real... your health is far far more important than your hair. What will you do with full head of hair and 0 erections? or 0 children or woman tits on your chest, or god forbid prostate cancer, or insomnia, brain fog OR whatever.. I've read about 10321903 things that REALLY HAPPENED to people who used this med for different periods of time.

And this situation SUCKS!!! cause this is the only med that is proven to save your hair. If propecia didn't have sides, I would take it since the age of 21, every day + MINOX, and if needed I would get some HT, and bye bye hairloss. It sucks that we can't save our hair without getting these effects on our bodies.

[pkipling]

Could you tell me who is a perfectly good candidate ? Do you know who wont get permanent sides before starting the drug ?

No, of course not. The only way to know if you will experience sides is to give the drug a shot - and that's something each individual should decide for themselves upon learning about the potential consequences. What I mean by a perfectly good candidate is someone who has minimal hair loss who may not be interested in (or even have the need for) a hair transplant, but wants to try and maintain what hair they have.

It's clear in this thread that people on both sides of the issue are going to back and forth, getting nowhere, accusing the other side of being wrong. I'm not interested in that. People shouldn't downplay the possibility of sides (and I very rarely see people do that) and at the same time, people shouldn't inflate them either, which does happen a lot, and it causes reasonable discourse to go out the window.

I'm familiar with both Blake Bloxham and Joe Tillman and trust them both to be ethical and forthcoming. To suggest that either of them is "lying" is ludicrous. According to what you posted, they may simply have a different opinion based on their experiences with their own patients. It's not as black and white as you want to make it out to be.

I am a patient advocate for Dr. Parsa Mohebi in Los Angeles, CA. My opinions/comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Dr. Mohebi and his staff.

[topt]

I dont even care if I would get the sides on the drug as long they would go away and I guess that would be to late if I start the drug. Damn its a vicious circle.
From what you described most man from age 20-40 are "perfectly good candidates". I know I am a perfectly good candidate but its just impossible to decide.
Maybe I overreacted with the lying stuff but I dont get it. Cant these experts talk to eachother and form some kind of similar opinion . I mean if Blake tells Joe he has seen a lot of pacients with permanent sides would he believe him and stop pushing the drug or it wouldnt matter?
How can a normal guy decide this if even the experts dont agree.
BTW I assume you recommend Propecia ? Would you stop if one of your guys got permanent sides ? Would you feel guilty ?

[JoeTillman]

I mean I dont get it; how can a person decide to take this or not; you have Joe Tillman saying one thing and here is a copy post from ********************** from Dr. Blake Bloxham

"I'm never the guy who doubt studies, and I think side effects are many times amplified by things like the internet, TV ads for class action lawsuits, et cetera. However, I don't feel this way about the side effects related to finasteride.

Frankly, I've seen far, far too many cases of patients with persistent sexual side effects years and even decades after stopping the medication.

Dr. Blake Bloxham
hair transplant surgeon, Feller and Bloxham
"

Its just impossible to have such an opposite experience so I dont get it what is the agenda here. I hate to say it but someone is not telling the truth.

Here's the difference between the two viewpoints.

I make no money one way or the other. If I say that there is of course a potential for side effects but they are rare the only thing to question is the definition of what "rare" means to Joe Tillman. Dr. Bloxham on the other hand has motive for scaring patients off of finasteride and his opinion keeps the patient coming back due to more hair loss which will need to be addressed via surgery. I'm not saying this is what is happening in the least, I'm presenting the logic behind the bias or lack thereof. It is a purely academic point.

But assuming both sides have nothing to gain financially, you simply have to dig into the reality of the situation. My experience with finasteride goes back almost fourteen years now, both with my own personal case, as well as the cases of those that started to contact me very early on when I was still just a patient. I have personally been involved with well north of 10,000 patient cases in my career thus far. I believe in the need to consider the medication because if it can help a 21 year old kid keep his hair for ten years with MINIMAL chance of side effects then you better believe I'm going to say so. It is from MY personal and professional experience that I have formulated this opinion.

Dr. Bloxham got his medical license a month ago. Based on what I know about him he has had little opportunity to interact on a large scale with hair restoration clients as he only recently finished his DO as an ear/nose/throat doctor. From what I have been told he has been training with Dr. Feller for two years while he was a moderator of a forum but even then Dr. Feller has never been a fan of the medication to begin with. If Dr. Bloxham has written a single prescription for finasteride I would be surprised. Some of the details above may be wrong but the point is spot on. He just got started as a hair restoration professional so his opinion is formed by those that have influence on him. My opinion is formed from fourteen years of taking the medication myself and having direct interaction with over 10,000 patients.

And for those that have a huge mental block to trying the medication but would still like to consider it, I always recommend (after confirming with their doctor first and foremost) to try the following schedule...


This is for Proscar. If trying 1mg Propecia substitute 1 full tablet for the 1/4 tablet.

Month 1 - 1/4 tablet every Monday.

Month 2 - 1/4 tablet every Monday and Thursday.

Month 3 - 1/4 tablet every Monday Wednesday Friday.

You can stop there or if you want you can go to:

Month 4 - 1/4 tablet daily.

Once you find your threshhold, assuming there is one, hold at the intake frequency that just puts you at said threshold and maintain for another month and then make a decision to back off to the previous intake frequency or push forward to the next level if possible.

And to address specifically something that Dr. Bloxham was quoted as saying...

I'm never the guy who doubt studies, and I think side effects are many times amplified by things like the internet, TV ads for class action lawsuits, et cetera. However, I don't feel this way about the side effects related to finasteride.

This alone pushes out the option for critical thinking. The biggest support that the anti-finasteride people got was a "study" conducted by a doctor at George Washington University. He interviewed people that were already complaining about having side effects from finasteride and he made his deduction about the percentage of patients having side effects BASED ON THOSE THAT WERE ALREADY HAVING SIDE EFFECTS! There was nothing that resembed an actual study. It was simply AN INTERVIEW!. There was also a large study with nearly 18,000 participants over a 7 year period. Sexual side effects were found to be in the same general realm as originally reported by Merck to be in the 2% range with no reports of permanent sexual side effects. In fact, most of the studies out there show that with continued use those that did have side effects saw a REDUCTION in side effects with continued use. This reflects what I have seen almost exactly.

So the truth is, the real studies support what I have seen and the only study that would support Dr. Bloxham's position is the "study" that was nothing more than an interview of pateints already complaining of the issue being researched.

There is so much more that can be said on the subject but the truth is, the facts support my opinion that is formed from fourteen years of experience. I'll never push finasteride on anyone agressively but I will tell them it's not a good idea to have a hair transplant without it. If you have great teeth but one gets knocked out and you have it replaced you don't suddenly stop brushing the rest of your teeth, do you? If you do, in time you'll have a great looking tooth

[topt]

OK; thanks Joe for responding; so nobody from 10000 patient cases that you worked with had sides ?
I am kind of leaning now to try the system you described. I dont know that there is a drug out there with so much controversy.
BTW have you seen this ?
http://urologytimes.modernmedicine.c...loss?page=full

Available toxicity information from clinical trials of finasteride in men with AGA is very limited, is of poor quality, and seems to be systematically biased."

Thanks

[JoeTillman]

OK; thanks Joe for responding; so nobody from 10000 patient cases that you worked with had sides ?
I am kind of leaning now to try the system you described. I dont know that there is a drug out there with so much controversy.
BTW have you seen this ?
http://urologytimes.modernmedicine.c...loss?page=full

Available toxicity information from clinical trials of finasteride in men with AGA is very limited, is of poor quality, and seems to be systematically biased."

Thanks

topt,

I don't recall saying anywhere that none of the patients I've dealt with have had side effects. You've really confused me on this because I thought I was clear Yes, I have seen side effects and I know people that have had them. I stated this in my first post in this thread. What I am saying is that they exist but I do not believe they are as prevalent as a lot of people are claiming.

Yes, I have seen the page on your link and as it says multiple times, the current method of thinking regarding finasteridea nd sexual side effects should not be altered.

I'm not a doctor but I do have my own experiences to pull from and I'll continue to state my opinion based on such experiences. It's all I have to go on I will say that if I were just starting out in this as a patient and someone told me that the only pill available to effectively fight hair loss would also potentially cause me to not be able to perform in the sack, I'd give up right then and there. It is absoulutely understandable.