Propecia side affects Merck or bladtruth won't tell you about

[pkipling]

Could you tell me who is a perfectly good candidate ? Do you know who wont get permanent sides before starting the drug ?

No, of course not. The only way to know if you will experience sides is to give the drug a shot - and that's something each individual should decide for themselves upon learning about the potential consequences. What I mean by a perfectly good candidate is someone who has minimal hair loss who may not be interested in (or even have the need for) a hair transplant, but wants to try and maintain what hair they have.

It's clear in this thread that people on both sides of the issue are going to back and forth, getting nowhere, accusing the other side of being wrong. I'm not interested in that. People shouldn't downplay the possibility of sides (and I very rarely see people do that) and at the same time, people shouldn't inflate them either, which does happen a lot, and it causes reasonable discourse to go out the window.

I'm familiar with both Blake Bloxham and Joe Tillman and trust them both to be ethical and forthcoming. To suggest that either of them is "lying" is ludicrous. According to what you posted, they may simply have a different opinion based on their experiences with their own patients. It's not as black and white as you want to make it out to be.

I am a patient advocate for Dr. Parsa Mohebi in Los Angeles, CA. My opinions/comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Dr. Mohebi and his staff.

[topt]

I dont even care if I would get the sides on the drug as long they would go away and I guess that would be to late if I start the drug. Damn its a vicious circle.
From what you described most man from age 20-40 are "perfectly good candidates". I know I am a perfectly good candidate but its just impossible to decide.
Maybe I overreacted with the lying stuff but I dont get it. Cant these experts talk to eachother and form some kind of similar opinion . I mean if Blake tells Joe he has seen a lot of pacients with permanent sides would he believe him and stop pushing the drug or it wouldnt matter?
How can a normal guy decide this if even the experts dont agree.
BTW I assume you recommend Propecia ? Would you stop if one of your guys got permanent sides ? Would you feel guilty ?

[JoeTillman]

I mean I dont get it; how can a person decide to take this or not; you have Joe Tillman saying one thing and here is a copy post from ********************** from Dr. Blake Bloxham

"I'm never the guy who doubt studies, and I think side effects are many times amplified by things like the internet, TV ads for class action lawsuits, et cetera. However, I don't feel this way about the side effects related to finasteride.

Frankly, I've seen far, far too many cases of patients with persistent sexual side effects years and even decades after stopping the medication.

Dr. Blake Bloxham
hair transplant surgeon, Feller and Bloxham
"

Its just impossible to have such an opposite experience so I dont get it what is the agenda here. I hate to say it but someone is not telling the truth.

Here's the difference between the two viewpoints.

I make no money one way or the other. If I say that there is of course a potential for side effects but they are rare the only thing to question is the definition of what "rare" means to Joe Tillman. Dr. Bloxham on the other hand has motive for scaring patients off of finasteride and his opinion keeps the patient coming back due to more hair loss which will need to be addressed via surgery. I'm not saying this is what is happening in the least, I'm presenting the logic behind the bias or lack thereof. It is a purely academic point.

But assuming both sides have nothing to gain financially, you simply have to dig into the reality of the situation. My experience with finasteride goes back almost fourteen years now, both with my own personal case, as well as the cases of those that started to contact me very early on when I was still just a patient. I have personally been involved with well north of 10,000 patient cases in my career thus far. I believe in the need to consider the medication because if it can help a 21 year old kid keep his hair for ten years with MINIMAL chance of side effects then you better believe I'm going to say so. It is from MY personal and professional experience that I have formulated this opinion.

Dr. Bloxham got his medical license a month ago. Based on what I know about him he has had little opportunity to interact on a large scale with hair restoration clients as he only recently finished his DO as an ear/nose/throat doctor. From what I have been told he has been training with Dr. Feller for two years while he was a moderator of a forum but even then Dr. Feller has never been a fan of the medication to begin with. If Dr. Bloxham has written a single prescription for finasteride I would be surprised. Some of the details above may be wrong but the point is spot on. He just got started as a hair restoration professional so his opinion is formed by those that have influence on him. My opinion is formed from fourteen years of taking the medication myself and having direct interaction with over 10,000 patients.

And for those that have a huge mental block to trying the medication but would still like to consider it, I always recommend (after confirming with their doctor first and foremost) to try the following schedule...


This is for Proscar. If trying 1mg Propecia substitute 1 full tablet for the 1/4 tablet.

Month 1 - 1/4 tablet every Monday.

Month 2 - 1/4 tablet every Monday and Thursday.

Month 3 - 1/4 tablet every Monday Wednesday Friday.

You can stop there or if you want you can go to:

Month 4 - 1/4 tablet daily.

Once you find your threshhold, assuming there is one, hold at the intake frequency that just puts you at said threshold and maintain for another month and then make a decision to back off to the previous intake frequency or push forward to the next level if possible.

And to address specifically something that Dr. Bloxham was quoted as saying...

I'm never the guy who doubt studies, and I think side effects are many times amplified by things like the internet, TV ads for class action lawsuits, et cetera. However, I don't feel this way about the side effects related to finasteride.

This alone pushes out the option for critical thinking. The biggest support that the anti-finasteride people got was a "study" conducted by a doctor at George Washington University. He interviewed people that were already complaining about having side effects from finasteride and he made his deduction about the percentage of patients having side effects BASED ON THOSE THAT WERE ALREADY HAVING SIDE EFFECTS! There was nothing that resembed an actual study. It was simply AN INTERVIEW!. There was also a large study with nearly 18,000 participants over a 7 year period. Sexual side effects were found to be in the same general realm as originally reported by Merck to be in the 2% range with no reports of permanent sexual side effects. In fact, most of the studies out there show that with continued use those that did have side effects saw a REDUCTION in side effects with continued use. This reflects what I have seen almost exactly.

So the truth is, the real studies support what I have seen and the only study that would support Dr. Bloxham's position is the "study" that was nothing more than an interview of pateints already complaining of the issue being researched.

There is so much more that can be said on the subject but the truth is, the facts support my opinion that is formed from fourteen years of experience. I'll never push finasteride on anyone agressively but I will tell them it's not a good idea to have a hair transplant without it. If you have great teeth but one gets knocked out and you have it replaced you don't suddenly stop brushing the rest of your teeth, do you? If you do, in time you'll have a great looking tooth

[topt]

OK; thanks Joe for responding; so nobody from 10000 patient cases that you worked with had sides ?
I am kind of leaning now to try the system you described. I dont know that there is a drug out there with so much controversy.
BTW have you seen this ?

http://urologytimes.modernmedicine.com/urology-times/news/sexual-effects-data-lacking-5-ari-hair-loss?page=full

Available toxicity information from clinical trials of finasteride in men with AGA is very limited, is of poor quality, and seems to be systematically biased."

Thanks

[JoeTillman]

OK; thanks Joe for responding; so nobody from 10000 patient cases that you worked with had sides ?
I am kind of leaning now to try the system you described. I dont know that there is a drug out there with so much controversy.
BTW have you seen this ?

http://urologytimes.modernmedicine.com/urology-times/news/sexual-effects-data-lacking-5-ari-hair-loss?page=full

Available toxicity information from clinical trials of finasteride in men with AGA is very limited, is of poor quality, and seems to be systematically biased."

Thanks

topt,

I don't recall saying anywhere that none of the patients I've dealt with have had side effects. You've really confused me on this because I thought I was clear Yes, I have seen side effects and I know people that have had them. I stated this in my first post in this thread. What I am saying is that they exist but I do not believe they are as prevalent as a lot of people are claiming.

Yes, I have seen the page on your link and as it says multiple times, the current method of thinking regarding finasteridea nd sexual side effects should not be altered.

I'm not a doctor but I do have my own experiences to pull from and I'll continue to state my opinion based on such experiences. It's all I have to go on I will say that if I were just starting out in this as a patient and someone told me that the only pill available to effectively fight hair loss would also potentially cause me to not be able to perform in the sack, I'd give up right then and there. It is absoulutely understandable.

[chongmet]

Here's the difference between the two viewpoints.

I make no money one way or the other. If I say that there is of course a potential for side effects but they are rare the only thing to question is the definition of what "rare" means to Joe Tillman. Dr. Bloxham on the other hand has motive for scaring patients off of finasteride and his opinion keeps the patient coming back due to more hair loss which will need to be addressed via surgery. I'm not saying this is what is happening in the least, I'm presenting the logic behind the bias or lack thereof. It is a purely academic point.

But assuming both sides have nothing to gain financially, you simply have to dig into the reality of the situation. My experience with finasteride goes back almost fourteen years now, both with my own personal case, as well as the cases of those that started to contact me very early on when I was still just a patient. I have personally been involved with well north of 10,000 patient cases in my career thus far. I believe in the need to consider the medication because if it can help a 21 year old kid keep his hair for ten years with MINIMAL chance of side effects then you better believe I'm going to say so. It is from MY personal and professional experience that I have formulated this opinion.

Dr. Bloxham got his medical license a month ago. Based on what I know about him he has had little opportunity to interact on a large scale with hair restoration clients as he only recently finished his DO as an ear/nose/throat doctor. From what I have been told he has been training with Dr. Feller for two years while he was a moderator of a forum but even then Dr. Feller has never been a fan of the medication to begin with. If Dr. Bloxham has written a single prescription for finasteride I would be surprised. Some of the details above may be wrong but the point is spot on. He just got started as a hair restoration professional so his opinion is formed by those that have influence on him. My opinion is formed from fourteen years of taking the medication myself and having direct interaction with over 10,000 patients.

And for those that have a huge mental block to trying the medication but would still like to consider it, I always recommend (after confirming with their doctor first and foremost) to try the following schedule...


This is for Proscar. If trying 1mg Propecia substitute 1 full tablet for the 1/4 tablet.

Month 1 - 1/4 tablet every Monday.

Month 2 - 1/4 tablet every Monday and Thursday.

Month 3 - 1/4 tablet every Monday Wednesday Friday.

You can stop there or if you want you can go to:

Month 4 - 1/4 tablet daily.

Once you find your threshhold, assuming there is one, hold at the intake frequency that just puts you at said threshold and maintain for another month and then make a decision to back off to the previous intake frequency or push forward to the next level if possible.

And to address specifically something that Dr. Bloxham was quoted as saying...



This alone pushes out the option for critical thinking. The biggest support that the anti-finasteride people got was a "study" conducted by a doctor at George Washington University. He interviewed people that were already complaining about having side effects from finasteride and he made his deduction about the percentage of patients having side effects BASED ON THOSE THAT WERE ALREADY HAVING SIDE EFFECTS! There was nothing that resembed an actual study. It was simply AN INTERVIEW!. There was also a large study with nearly 18,000 participants over a 7 year period. Sexual side effects were found to be in the same general realm as originally reported by Merck to be in the 2% range with no reports of permanent sexual side effects. In fact, most of the studies out there show that with continued use those that did have side effects saw a REDUCTION in side effects with continued use. This reflects what I have seen almost exactly.

So the truth is, the real studies support what I have seen and the only study that would support Dr. Bloxham's position is the "study" that was nothing more than an interview of pateints already complaining of the issue being researched.

There is so much more that can be said on the subject but the truth is, the facts support my opinion that is formed from fourteen years of experience. I'll never push finasteride on anyone agressively but I will tell them it's not a good idea to have a hair transplant without it. If you have great teeth but one gets knocked out and you have it replaced you don't suddenly stop brushing the rest of your teeth, do you? If you do, in time you'll have a great looking tooth

The problem is - you can never know when it hits you. I've read on many cases in which one hasn't had any side effects for months over months, and suddenly - after 1 year (or 2 years and so on..) he started to have those known sides. Hence, you can never know if you taking the right dosage, not even 3-4 months of trying it. You also can never be quiet and you will always worry that some day it will hit you too.
Now, I really really wouldn't care to get those side effects (any of them) if they were SIDE effects. But, the new warning of propecia (which the FDA made them to publish) + the many cases that those side effects last even after you stop taking the med, that is a real deal. I cannot take a med that can casue me permanent damage like sexual damage or physical damage. And that really happened. Many people suffer the so called PFS - post finasteride syndrome, years and even decades!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! after stop using FIN.

This is a big deal, and reading this, I just can't do it to myself.
With this being said, we must must must find the "new" FIN already. A new drug that can at least stop hairloss. Im not even talking about regrowth.

[topt]

topt,

I don't recall saying anywhere that none of the patients I've dealt with have had side effects. You've really confused me on this because I thought I was clear Yes, I have seen side effects and I know people that have had them. I stated this in my first post in this thread. What I am saying is that they exist but I do not believe they are as prevalent as a lot of people are claiming.

Yes, I have seen the page on your link and as it says multiple times, the current method of thinking regarding finasteridea nd sexual side effects should not be altered.

I'm not a doctor but I do have my own experiences to pull from and I'll continue to state my opinion based on such experiences. It's all I have to go on I will say that if I were just starting out in this as a patient and someone told me that the only pill available to effectively fight hair loss would also potentially cause me to not be able to perform in the sack, I'd give up right then and there. It is absoulutely understandable.

Sorry, I meant permanent sides after stopping the drug. Did anybody from 10k people that you know get them ?

[Herbaliser]

Here's the difference between the two viewpoints.

I make no money one way or the other. If I say that there is of course a potential for side effects but they are rare the only thing to question is the definition of what "rare" means to Joe Tillman. Dr. Bloxham on the other hand has motive for scaring patients off of finasteride and his opinion keeps the patient coming back due to more hair loss which will need to be addressed via surgery. I'm not saying this is what is happening in the least, I'm presenting the logic behind the bias or lack thereof. It is a purely academic point.

But assuming both sides have nothing to gain financially, you simply have to dig into the reality of the situation. My experience with finasteride goes back almost fourteen years now, both with my own personal case, as well as the cases of those that started to contact me very early on when I was still just a patient. I have personally been involved with well north of 10,000 patient cases in my career thus far. I believe in the need to consider the medication because if it can help a 21 year old kid keep his hair for ten years with MINIMAL chance of side effects then you better believe I'm going to say so. It is from MY personal and professional experience that I have formulated this opinion.

Dr. Bloxham got his medical license a month ago. Based on what I know about him he has had little opportunity to interact on a large scale with hair restoration clients as he only recently finished his DO as an ear/nose/throat doctor. From what I have been told he has been training with Dr. Feller for two years while he was a moderator of a forum but even then Dr. Feller has never been a fan of the medication to begin with. If Dr. Bloxham has written a single prescription for finasteride I would be surprised. Some of the details above may be wrong but the point is spot on. He just got started as a hair restoration professional so his opinion is formed by those that have influence on him. My opinion is formed from fourteen years of taking the medication myself and having direct interaction with over 10,000 patients.

And for those that have a huge mental block to trying the medication but would still like to consider it, I always recommend (after confirming with their doctor first and foremost) to try the following schedule...


This is for Proscar. If trying 1mg Propecia substitute 1 full tablet for the 1/4 tablet.

Month 1 - 1/4 tablet every Monday.

Month 2 - 1/4 tablet every Monday and Thursday.

Month 3 - 1/4 tablet every Monday Wednesday Friday.

You can stop there or if you want you can go to:

Month 4 - 1/4 tablet daily.

Once you find your threshhold, assuming there is one, hold at the intake frequency that just puts you at said threshold and maintain for another month and then make a decision to back off to the previous intake frequency or push forward to the next level if possible.

And to address specifically something that Dr. Bloxham was quoted as saying...



This alone pushes out the option for critical thinking. The biggest support that the anti-finasteride people got was a "study" conducted by a doctor at George Washington University. He interviewed people that were already complaining about having side effects from finasteride and he made his deduction about the percentage of patients having side effects BASED ON THOSE THAT WERE ALREADY HAVING SIDE EFFECTS! There was nothing that resembed an actual study. It was simply AN INTERVIEW!. There was also a large study with nearly 18,000 participants over a 7 year period. Sexual side effects were found to be in the same general realm as originally reported by Merck to be in the 2% range with no reports of permanent sexual side effects. In fact, most of the studies out there show that with continued use those that did have side effects saw a REDUCTION in side effects with continued use. This reflects what I have seen almost exactly.

So the truth is, the real studies support what I have seen and the only study that would support Dr. Bloxham's position is the "study" that was nothing more than an interview of pateints already complaining of the issue being researched.

There is so much more that can be said on the subject but the truth is, the facts support my opinion that is formed from fourteen years of experience. I'll never push finasteride on anyone agressively but I will tell them it's not a good idea to have a hair transplant without it. If you have great teeth but one gets knocked out and you have it replaced you don't suddenly stop brushing the rest of your teeth, do you? If you do, in time you'll have a great looking tooth

Sorry but i cant take you seriously, since nobody mentioned your non financial benefits that you brought up.
The 2% side effect study made by a doctor you mean? just one study but still http://time.com/3453649/doctors-drug...y-search-tool/, and sure i can put more alarming proof how it benefits all parts but i think you get the point, and seriously still 2% by your own personal view or as a mentor?

It´s not reliable anymore since the cash benefits overcomes our general health nowadays, and it´s not only finasteride that comes to the surface.

[burtandernie]

Yes, the facts above speak for themselves. Who would conduct studies if not a doctor? The conspiracy theorist guys will always argue the system is out to get them no matter what. Even if thats not the reality

[jamesst11]

Man, I think we all know these threads are ultimately pointless... You guys are going to continue to argue into circles.. I take fin, as many on here do. Do I trust the FDA? F*ck no. Are the sides exactly 2%. Who the f*ck knows? Can finasteride cause permanent sides? Maybe, probably in a rare few. Are there thousands of people who take it, and have maintained/regrown their hair and are living better lives? Yes. Are there people that say it sped up their MPB and destroyed their hair? yes. If you take it, is God going to smite you and make your dick fall off? maybe, perhaps in certain people... just stop! Take it or don't. You have the facts you have. You have heard from Merck, the FDA and people like Joe and Dr. Bernstein and tons of other seasoned knowledgeable people. So what is the point of this?

[justhair]

I been on finasteride 1/4 pill every day for like um 3 years with no sides but even if I got the worst sides in the world I would keep taking it js

[chongmet]

I been on finasteride 1/4 pill every day for like um 3 years with no sides but even if I got the worst sides in the world I would keep taking it js

Easy to say. I'm sure that if your dick isn't able to get up again you will stop taking this med.
Anyway, do you take 0.25 mg daily? or 1mg daily (as 1/4 fin can be interpreted as 1/4 of proscar too = 1mg)

[justhair]

Easy to say. I'm sure that if your dick isn't able to get up again you will stop taking this med.
Anyway, do you take 0.25 mg daily? or 1mg daily (as 1/4 fin can be interpreted as 1/4 of proscar too = 1mg)

I love my penis and finasteride hasn't changed that but I think Ima have to hold firm (lol) and say I would keep taking it even if I had sides because I can't handle the way people's eyes used to travel up to my hairline when speaking with them before my surgery and finasteride pills but anyway I get 5mg finasteride from my docter and I cut them into fourths. I take one fourth daily, I have 90 pills at 5mg each sitting in my bathroom so about a years worth til I gotta go bother my doc again

[Herbaliser]

Man, I think we all know these threads are ultimately pointless... You guys are going to continue to argue into circles.. I take fin, as many on here do. Do I trust the FDA? F*ck no. Are the sides exactly 2%. Who the f*ck knows? Can finasteride cause permanent sides? Maybe, probably in a rare few. Are there thousands of people who take it, and have maintained/regrown their hair and are living better lives? Yes. Are there people that say it sped up their MPB and destroyed their hair? yes. If you take it, is God going to smite you and make your dick fall off? maybe, perhaps in certain people... just stop! Take it or don't. You have the facts you have. You have heard from Merck, the FDA and people like Joe and Dr. Bernstein and tons of other seasoned knowledgeable people. So what is the point of this?

Whats the point? Well could be that people get furious by false research, marketing that will effect them permanently.
If you put 2% possible sides instead of lets say 20%, then you would take the change because 2% is like a needle in a haystack.
But you took the risk, so it docent matter because you where one of the unlucky ones.

[Herbaliser]

Man, I think we all know these threads are ultimately pointless... You guys are going to continue to argue into circles.. I take fin, as many on here do. Do I trust the FDA? F*ck no. Are the sides exactly 2%. Who the f*ck knows? Can finasteride cause permanent sides? Maybe, probably in a rare few. Are there thousands of people who take it, and have maintained/regrown their hair and are living better lives? Yes. Are there people that say it sped up their MPB and destroyed their hair? yes. If you take it, is God going to smite you and make your dick fall off? maybe, perhaps in certain people... just stop! Take it or don't. You have the facts you have. You have heard from Merck, the FDA and people like Joe and Dr. Bernstein and tons of other seasoned knowledgeable people. So what is the point of this?

Whats the point? Well could be that people get furious by false research, marketing that will effect them permanently.
If you put 2% possible sides instead of lets say 20%, then you would take the change because 2% is like a needle in a haystack.
But you took the risk, so it docent matter because you where one of the unlucky ones.