My 3 month Results

[Vic]

Lol. Good luck Hicks!

Hellovera, thanks mate! I'm almost at month 5. I haven't rolled for almost 2 months now, going to start again next week which will be my 5 month mark.
Hellovera, it would be good for the community if you tried rolling without the minox and see what kind of results you get in 2 months. You'll avoid the minox shed and we'll get to see how growth factors work without minox.

[HelloVera]

I will do after i've been to see the Dermo mate, i'm hoping they do a scalp bio and don't want mini wounds to effect the actual state. I did 12 weeks derma rolling with 2mm a few years ago, hard to say how it helped and i had already had a small 2nd hairline introduced thanks to topical Emu oil and ACV (the only topicals i used) lost most of it due to stopping when i got into a new relationship n didn't want to explain why i had Emu oil on my scalp in bed and why i stank like vinegar lol. By 2nd hairline i meant pigmented vellous which was noticeable but sadly not cosmetically happy with. What size do you suggest bear in mind my forehead can bleed with a 1mm one.

[Vic]

I will do after i've been to see the Dermo mate, i'm hoping they do a scalp bio and don't want mini wounds to effect the actual state. I did 12 weeks derma rolling with 2mm a few years ago, hard to say how it helped and i had already had a small 2nd hairline introduced thanks to topical Emu oil and ACV (the only topicals i used) lost most of it due to stopping when i got into a new relationship n didn't want to explain why i had Emu oil on my scalp in bed and why i stank like vinegar lol. By 2nd hairline i meant pigmented vellous which was noticeable but sadly not cosmetically happy with. What size do you suggest bear in mind my forehead can bleed with a 1mm one.

Lol. Hopefully you gain what you lost when you stopped for that girl.

Vellus hairs are 1.5mm to 2mm below the skin so if you want to improve the quality of "peach fuzz" then start with 1.5mm. Once they gain pigment then go larger because the thicker the hair, the deeper the hair follicle. Full Terminal hairs are 3mm to 4mm below the skin.

I'm going to use 1.5mm again for my next 3 month session. If I see enough improvement after my next session then I'm planning on moving up to a 2mm as the hair follicles will be deeper in my skin and the 1.5mm won't get near the follicles anymore.

[Occulus]

I think the only active ingredients of your protocol are the rolling and the Rogaine. There's no evidence that HGH grows hair, and if it did, there should be a lot of evidence, at least anecdotally, as there are tens (hundreds?) of thousands of older men who take HGH. I also can't find any scientific studies that suggest exercising on an empty stomach ramps up HGH production, though there is a lot of chatter that fasting and high intensity interval training does. Eating "clean" also doesn't grow hair - again, if it did, we'd have a lot of anecdotal evidence of it, as lots of balding men eat clean.

If anything but our genetics made our hair fall out, you wouldn't see any fat men, old men, etc. with hair, nor would you see any athletes who were bald. It's a genetic condition, and if anything in your protocol is growing hair, its the things most men DON'T do, which is derma-roll their heads and then apply Rogain. Good for you for getting healthy, but there's no reason to think it has anything to do with the perceived success of your protocol.

[Vic]

I think the only active ingredients of your protocol are the rolling and the Rogaine. There's no evidence that HGH grows hair, and if it did, there should be a lot of evidence, at least anecdotally, as there are tens (hundreds?) of thousands of older men who take HGH. I also can't find any scientific studies that suggest exercising on an empty stomach ramps up HGH production, though there is a lot of chatter that fasting and high intensity interval training does. Eating "clean" also doesn't grow hair - again, if it did, we'd have a lot of anecdotal evidence of it, as lots of balding men eat clean.

If anything but our genetics made our hair fall out, you wouldn't see any fat men, old men, etc. with hair, nor would you see any athletes who were bald. It's a genetic condition, and if anything in your protocol is growing hair, its the things most men DON'T do, which is derma-roll their heads and then apply Rogain. Good for you for getting healthy, but there's no reason to think it has anything to do with the perceived success of your protocol.

It could be just the Derma roller and rogaine. But a Derma roller is used to generate growth factors. That's what helps repair what ever is damaged, so increasing growth factors with the supplements I take and the nutrients I eat help repair my damaged scalp.
I'm not sure how to respond to the HGH partion of your comment because you seem to agree with what I said about how and when our bodies produce it. Almost everyone who's ever used HGH has reported hair growth, check any AIDS forum or muscle building forum for countless testimonies.
As for healthy eating, it comes down to common sense and being able to see how the world works. For example; if you wanted a rose bush to grow big and tall you'd make sure the ground had nutrients and that it was watered regularly. Just because it's a rose bush and is supposed to give you roses doesn't mean it will if conditions for growth are not right. As far as humans go, all you have to do is pay attention to how you feel when you eat crap. If you feel like crap after you eat crap it's because your body Didn't get the nutrients it needed. When your body doesn't have the nutrients it needs the 1st thing that is cut off is HAIR because your body doesn't need hair to survive. Your body needs the right nutrients to function properly just like the rose bush.

[Occulus]

It could be just the Derma roller and rogaine. But a Derma roller is used to generate growth factors. That's what helps repair what ever is damaged, so increasing growth factors with the supplements I take and the nutrients I eat help repair my damaged scalp.
I'm not sure how to respond to the HGH partion of your comment because you seem to agree with what I said about how and when our bodies produce it. Almost everyone who's ever used HGH has reported hair growth, check any AIDS forum or muscle building forum for countless testimonies.
As for healthy eating, it comes down to common sense and being able to see how the world works. For example; if you wanted a rose bush to grow big and tall you'd make sure the ground had nutrients and that it was watered regularly. Just because it's a rose bush and is supposed to give you roses doesn't mean it will if conditions for growth are not right. As far as humans go, all you have to do is pay attention to how you feel when you eat crap. If you feel like crap after you eat crap it's because your body Didn't get the nutrients it needed. When your body doesn't have the nutrients it needs the 1st thing that is cut off is HAIR because your body doesn't need hair to survive. Your body needs the right nutrients to function properly just like the rose bush.

"Common sense" is not scientific fact. As I said, there are probably millions of bald men world wide who eat clean and maintain a healthy body. There are probably tens (hundreds?) of millions of fat, unhealthy, men who smoke or abuse drugs and have full heads of hair. There is no evidence that being healthy promotes hair growth. Does it hurt? Of course not. But to suggest that it plays any role in whatever growth you're seeing is completely baseless and unfounded in science.

As for HGH, I have never heard of it growing hair. I think if it was that prevalent, it would be discussed here and elsewhere, and there would be studies on WHY it grows hair. Finally, as I said, there is "chatter" on blogs that say fastening promotes HGH production. Despite that, I've found very few actually scientific studies that have observed that, and those that speak in terms of percentages, not absolutes. Again, if fasting grew hair, we'd know it, as there are lots of people who fast and who live on caloric restricted diets (the obese, who do it to lose weight, and a bunch of nuts who think it will extend their life - the later has been observed in simple animals, but not in primates or any other model that comes close to humans).

Keep rolling, keep applying the Rogaine, and stay in shape, but only the first two could reasonably be expected to grow hair.

[Vic]

"Common sense" is not scientific fact. As I said, there are probably millions of bald men world wide who eat clean and maintain a healthy body. There are probably tens (hundreds?) of millions of fat, unhealthy, men who smoke or abuse drugs and have full heads of hair. There is no evidence that being healthy promotes hair growth. Does it hurt? Of course not. But to suggest that it plays any role in whatever growth you're seeing is completely baseless and unfounded in science.

As for HGH, I have never heard of it growing hair. I think if it was that prevalent, it would be discussed here and elsewhere, and there would be studies on WHY it grows hair. Finally, as I said, there is "chatter" on blogs that say fastening promotes HGH production. Despite that, I've found very few actually scientific studies that have observed that, and those that speak in terms of percentages, not absolutes. Again, if fasting grew hair, we'd know it, as there are lots of people who fast and who live on caloric restricted diets (the obese, who do it to lose weight, and a bunch of nuts who think it will extend their life - the later has been observed in simple animals, but not in primates or any other model that comes close to humans).

Keep rolling, keep applying the Rogaine, and stay in shape, but only the first two could reasonably be expected to grow hair.

"Only the first two could reasonably be expected to grow hair"

its clear you don't even know basic biology so here's a refresher from what you should have learned in elementary school.
EVERY LIVING CELL NEEDS ENERGY TO SURVIVE. OUR CELLS GET ENERGY FROM NUTRIENTS. Without the right nutrients all the growth factors in the world wouldn't make a difference.
The rest of your comment I'll leave for you to do some actual research and correct yourself. To think growth factors triggered from a Derma roller can have an affect on hair but HGH which is the most potent form of growth factor doesn't have any affect on hair just shows how little you've actually researched the subject.

[Occulus]

"Only the first two could reasonably be expected to grow hair"

its clear you don't even know basic biology so here's a refresher from what you should have learned in elementary school.
EVERY LIVING CELL NEEDS ENERGY TO SURVIVE. OUR CELLS GET ENERGY FROM NUTRIENTS. Without the right nutrients all the growth factors in the world wouldn't make a difference.
The rest of your comment I'll leave for you to do some actual research and correct yourself. To think growth factors triggered from a Derma roller can have an affect on hair but HGH which is the most potent form of growth factor doesn't have any affect on hair just shows how little you've actually researched the subject.

As I said, if eating clean and being in shape grew hair, there wouldn't be any bald athletes, nor any fat and out of shape guys with full heads of hair. There's plenty of data showing that wounding induces hair growth (there are several researchers pursuing this protocol right now - Follica, and apparently others).

There's nothing but slim anecdotal evidence to prove HGH grows hair. While it's certainly possible, as HGH grows EVERYTHING, and often not in ways that are healthy, there's been no tested theory as why it should grow hair, nor any way to get it to grow ONLY hair. Regardless of the ability of HGH to grow hair or not, you claim you protocol somehow induces excessive HGH production, for which you've provided no proof, and your claim that exercising on an empty stomach induces HGH production is nonsense. As I've said, there are a few studies that suggest fasting (for AT LEAST 16 hours, and optimally for 24-36 hours) increases HGH production, but it's far from settled, and most of the hype surrounding fasting has been generated by blogs and other laypeople who have no scientific background nor support their claims with data.

I will say this about rolling, which Spencer himself has stated: you are opening yourself up to potential infection and permanent scarring, which will definitely have an adverse affect on hair growth. While I think wounding does grow hair, it's apparently critical to wound in a very certain way. Until the exact process can be determined (something Follica has been working on for about a decade now, to no apparent consistent success), I would never, ever experiment on myself. The risk/rewards aren't worth it; sure, you may pick up a few hundred hairs, or you may build up so much fibrotic tissue that any future treatment becomes impossible. Or, even worse, you might contract a serious infection.

[Vic]

As I said, if eating clean and being in shape grew hair, there wouldn't be any bald athletes, nor any fat and out of shape guys with full heads of hair. There's plenty of data showing that wounding induces hair growth (there are several researchers pursuing this protocol right now - Follica, and apparently others).

There's nothing but slim anecdotal evidence to prove HGH grows hair. While it's certainly possible, as HGH grows EVERYTHING, and often not in ways that are healthy, there's been no tested theory as why it should grow hair, nor any way to get it to grow ONLY hair. Regardless of the ability of HGH to grow hair or not, you claim you protocol somehow induces excessive HGH production, for which you've provided no proof, and your claim that exercising on an empty stomach induces HGH production is nonsense. As I've said, there are a few studies that suggest fasting (for AT LEAST 16 hours, and optimally for 24-36 hours) increases HGH production, but it's far from settled, and most of the hype surrounding fasting has been generated by blogs and other laypeople who have no scientific background nor support their claims with data.

I will say this about rolling, which Spencer himself has stated: you are opening yourself up to potential infection and permanent scarring, which will definitely have an adverse affect on hair growth. While I think wounding does grow hair, it's apparently critical to wound in a very certain way. Until the exact process can be determined (something Follica has been working on for about a decade now, to no apparent consistent success), I would never, ever experiment on myself. The risk/rewards aren't worth it; sure, you may pick up a few hundred hairs, or you may build up so much fibrotic tissue that any future treatment becomes impossible. Or, even worse, you might contract a serious infection.

This is what I'm doing. I'm not forcing it on you. I didn't ask for your opinion. I don't care about your opinion.
I'm conducting my own "study". If I fail then oh well. If I'm successful then it's documented for others to try if they please.
Go troll somewhere else.

[warner8]

HI Vic, quick question; when i dermarolll with my 1.5 mm on a shaven head, i don't bleed at all, and my scalp doesn't turn red, and I'm not really that sore the next day surprisingly. i know the studies said 15 min rolling till erythema. based off your experience, am i being aggressive enough, or is what I'm doing fine. i am about 1 month into derma rolling.

This is what I'm doing. I'm not forcing it on you. I didn't ask for your opinion. I don't care about your opinion.
I'm conducting my own "study". If I fail then oh well. If I'm successful then it's documented for others to try if they please.
Go troll somewhere else.

[Vic]

HI Vic, quick question; when i dermarolll with my 1.5 mm on a shaven head, i don't bleed at all, and my scalp doesn't turn red, and I'm not really that sore the next day surprisingly. i know the studies said 15 min rolling till erythema. based off your experience, am i being aggressive enough, or is what I'm doing fine. i am about 1 month into derma rolling.

Hi Warner, bleeding isn't a necessity but to not be sore the day after rolling with a 1.5 is quite strange. I'm sore for about 3 days after rolling. My guess would be the entire needle isn't being submerged in the skin. I wouldn't say be aggressive but a little pressure is definitely needed.
how many needles are on your roller? Rollers with high pin counts like the 540 types are a lot harder to fully submerge.

Have you seen any signs of growth ???

[Vic]

Month 5 update.
I've stopped using copper peptides for about 2 weeks now, thought it might have been the cause of my shed but shedding has not let up. It's basically non stop shedding but my temples are getting thicker and thicker. My right temple is almost cosmetically significant. Almost looks like I have a hairline again, lol. My left temple point has basically grown back.

[Vic]

Month 5 update.
I've stopped using copper peptides for about 2 weeks now, thought it might have been the cause of my shed but shedding has not let up. It's basically non stop shedding but my temples are getting thicker and thicker. My right temple is almost cosmetically significant. Almost looks like I have a hairline again, lol. My left temple point has basically grown back.

[Vic]

Month 6

To me it looks like I've shed any gain I had except for my temples. Still mostly peach fuzz/dark peach fuzz.
Made a few changes, I read coffee increases PHD2 so I've basically cut it from my diet. Also cut Niacin(was in my multi) and borage oil. Niacin also increases PGD2 and borage oil is mainly Omega 6's which cause inflammation.
My shedding kinda slowed about 3 days after I stopped drinking coffee. I'd say I shed at a normal rate now.
I couldn't attach more pics. I've reached my attachment limit I guess.

[Vic]

Finally found something that states exactly what happens during wound healing. What happens 1st to last, what helps and most interesting, #22 lists what vitamins and minerals are essential for wound healing and #27 states how Nutritional defecincies impair wound healing.

http://www.elsevieradvantage.com/samplechapters/9780323034708/9780323034708.pdf