Where are the phase IIb results for Bimatoprost?

[baldybald]

IDGAF who or what "swiss temples" believes. Nobody has tried bim at 3%. Anyone who says bim is weak doesn't understand the importance of concentration and dosing.

An alcoholic beverage with 5% alcohol is going to be like water compared to one that is 50%.

Who said increasing the concentration of any product will increase the effectiveness?
Is minoxidil 15% better than 5% ? The answer is no even though some say yes, is fin 5 mg better than 1 mg ? The answer is no.

[InBeforeTheCure]

Who said increasing the concentration of any product will increase the effectiveness?
Is minoxidil 15% better than 5% ? The answer is no even though some say yes, is fin 5 mg better than 1 mg ? The answer is no.

Well, the concentration obviously makes a difference up to a certain point, and at some point there are diminishing returns. The question is at what concentration does that plateau happen in bimatoprost?

[It's2014ComeOnAlready]

Who said increasing the concentration of any product will increase the effectiveness?
Is minoxidil 15% better than 5% ? The answer is no even though some say yes, is fin 5 mg better than 1 mg ? The answer is no.

Alright well, you've shown you're behind in what you know. I'll be glad to get you up to speed. Concentration has been the biggest issue for this drug. It is why they ran a phase 2b. They ran a trial with .3%, and found that it wasn't enough. They then ran a trial (phase 2b) with a formulation that is 10X greater (3%). And now we see that the development has continued, which means they are pleased with 3%.

Please refer to earlier pages in this thread. There is lots of good stuff. I don't have time to post everything, but you'd be doing yourself a favor by doing a little research rather than saying "no it's crap - my brain and swiss temples said so."

[baldybald]

Alright well, you've shown you're behind in what you know. I'll be glad to get you up to speed. Concentration has been the biggest issue for this drug. It is why they ran a phase 2b. They ran a trial with .3%, and found that it wasn't enough. They then ran a trial (phase 2b) with a formulation that is 10X greater (3%). And now we see that the development has continued, which means they are pleased with 3%.

Please refer to earlier pages in this thread. There is lots of good stuff. I don't have time to post everything, but you'd be doing yourself a favor by doing a little research rather than saying "no it's crap, swiss temples said so."

Thanks that helped

[It's2014ComeOnAlready]

Interesting. Let's hope for the better. Could be for another drug though. One more month before we get to know more I guess. Have you looked into Samumed recently It's214ComeOnAlready? You seem to be very up to date and informed how companies move and such. I am pretty interested in what Samumed their compound will bring to the table.

Yea you are right, it could be another drug. We'll know in a month. I think what I liked the most is that the article was very specific in mentioning that it was for the packaging of the product, and not new equipment to make a new drug. It leads me to think that it has something to do with a container, or delivery system (i.e. foam can like rogaine) and that they are going to use with a drug that possibly already exists in production at the plant. The article also mentions the VP of Operations saying that they could see the need to hire more people at the plant by Q3 2016, if demand for the products increase. To me, it all but says Bimatoprost for hair loss, but we will find out for sure in a month.

I have been keeping up on SM. It looks like some real interesting stuff for sure. I think their phase 2 dosing is over soon, and I thinks it's very possible that their 2nd phase 2 mini-trial has something to do with the 21st Century Cures Act. Turned out Samumed has some lobbyists in Washington; they must be in the loop about what is going on with the bill.

Hopefully we hear some good news about both soon.

[JayM]

You do know what swiss has been doing with his PG protocol though right? Search "A loss recovered, swiss temples blog". Yes they say bim is weak but he is only on castor for PGE2 and has had unreal growth (got to contribute it to the rest he's doing as well though).

It will give you more hope Seti+bim will be a good combo.

[Tomtom21]

Glad to see you back 2014... Pending the launch of a phase 3, how long do you think it would take to see bim for hair loss hit the market? Before year end 2016? I really cant see bim for hair not coming to fruition because even at the weak/very low dose if lumigan it produced an effect. Also, now that allergan has officially taken over kythera, are they now responsible for the seti trials? Lastly, since seti has been covered extensively for other conditions, can allergan jump directly into a phase 2 poc trial for seti?

[unbalding]

Alright well, you've shown you're behind in what you know. I'll be glad to get you up to speed. Concentration has been the biggest issue for this drug. It is why they ran a phase 2b. They ran a trial with .3%, and found that it wasn't enough. They then ran a trial (phase 2b) with a formulation that is 10X greater (3%). And now we see that the development has continued, which means they are pleased with 3%.

Please refer to earlier pages in this thread. There is lots of good stuff. I don't have time to post everything, but you'd be doing yourself a favor by doing a little research rather than saying "no it's crap - my brain and swiss temples said so."

Where did you get this from? The only trial results I've seen are for .03%. I've seen no mention from them anywhere about what dosage they used in their latest trial. They are supposed to release those study results later this year.

[It's2014ComeOnAlready]

Where did you get this from? The only trial results I've seen are for .03%. I've seen no mention from them anywhere about what dosage they used in their latest trial. They are supposed to release those study results later this year.

please refer to previous posts in this thread.

0.03% is for eyelashes, they initially tested 0.3% for the scalp in phase 2a, that wasn't strong enough so they trialled "a formulation which is 10X stronger," at 3% for phase 2b.

[Swooping]

I think they make everything secret. That is interesting because there are a lot of thing is going on the backstage and we do not know about.

Yes baldybald they seem to be pretty secretive indeed. Even their compound is. I'm curious too because this is the first ever direct b-catenin agonist (wnt pathway) ever to hit clinical trials afaik!

Yea you are right, it could be another drug. We'll know in a month. I think what I liked the most is that the article was very specific in mentioning that it was for the packaging of the product, and not new equipment to make a new drug. It leads me to think that it has something to do with a container, or delivery system (i.e. foam can like rogaine) and that they are going to use with a drug that possibly already exists in production at the plant. The article also mentions the VP of Operations saying that they could see the need to hire more people at the plant by Q3 2016, if demand for the products increase. To me, it all but says Bimatoprost for hair loss, but we will find out for sure in a month.

I have been keeping up on SM. It looks like some real interesting stuff for sure. I think their phase 2 dosing is over soon, and I thinks it's very possible that their 2nd phase 2 mini-trial has something to do with the 21st Century Cures Act. Turned out Samumed has some lobbyists in Washington; they must be in the loop about what is going on with the bill.

Hopefully we hear some good news about both soon.

Thanks man, indeed interesting. Let´s hope one of them succeeds. And if not I hope at least that they will release the results.

[charlie76761]

please refer to previous posts in this thread.

0.03% is for eyelashes, they initially tested 0.3% for the scalp in phase 2a, that wasn't strong enough so they trialled "a formulation which is 10X stronger," at 3% for phase 2b.

Interesting - i've been using about 5mg a day (0.5%) for about 2mths and i've had to quit as real bad tinnitus (ear works on hair cells although cant say i can know while BIM would work directly on them!). I'd be v keen to see what they document

i'd be slightly surprised if they would invest such capital prior to completing Phase 3 / getting regulatory approval... but let's hope they know something we dont...!

[It's2014ComeOnAlready]

Interesting - i've been using about 5mg a day (0.5%) for about 2mths and i've had to quit as real bad tinnitus (ear works on hair cells although cant say i can know while BIM would work directly on them!). I'd be v keen to see what they document

i'd be slightly surprised if they would invest such capital prior to completing Phase 3 / getting regulatory approval... but let's hope they know something we dont...!

You got tinnitus from using bim...that's definitely unusual. Are you sure it's not from something else?

Anyway, the drug itself is already FDA approved. Also, if they've received approval or are planning to receive approval, it is at their own discretion to release such information.

It has been my thinking since it was discovered that they are moving forward with it, that the Q3 2015 Key pipeline update has something to do with it. The event itself is taking place from the former Allergan HQ and where it originated, and I believe if they are announcing a product, it will be turned into an event. A reveal for a new, very effective hair loss treatment product would be quite a splash. It would also reinforce the "Allergan" brand, which is the name Actavis adopted. It matters, that name is very important, and even "Rogaine" as a brand is very powerful. When people think hair loss, they think "Rogaine," I think Allergan wants that to change.

When it comes to hair loss (the holy grail of medical aesthetics) , or facial aesthetics, they want people to think Allergan, not another brand. It's a big deal.

[charlie76761]

You got tinnitus from using bim...that's definitely unusual. Are you sure it's not from something else?

Anyway, the drug itself is already FDA approved. Also, if they've received approval or are planning to receive approval, it is at their own discretion to release such information.

It has been my thinking since it was discovered that they are moving forward with it, that the Q3 2015 Key pipeline update has something to do with it. The event itself is taking place from the former Allergan HQ and where it originated, and I believe if they are announcing a product, it will be turned into an event. A reveal for a new, very effective hair loss treatment product would be quite a splash. It would also reinforce the "Allergan" brand, which is the name Actavis adopted. It matters, that name is very important, and even "Rogaine" as a brand is very powerful. When people think hair loss, they think "Rogaine," I think Allergan wants that to change.

When it comes to hair loss (the holy grail of medical aesthetics) , or facial aesthetics, they want people to think Allergan, not another brand. It's a big deal.

i do hope you're right!

Not sure if sure if you are correct re FDA approval already given - BIM has been approved at v low usage for glaucoma and eye lash growth and as per allergan / manufacture instructions, 5ml is supposed to last to for 10 weeks which at 0.03% concentration is a daily dosage of 0.02mg of BIM

People on this forum are talking of the need at much higher for hair growth.. some even saying at 3% which is 30mg a day which is x1,400 more mg per day or 140,000% more. The current approval obviously wont cover dosage at the levels or anything close. Can't imagine more than x1 or x2 would be acceptable

re tinnitus - yes, everything has been constant in my regime. it's obviously a v powerful drug and i'm using at x140 times recommended mg volume

The good old human body.. such a fine equilibrium.. .change one factor here and something often happens there.. (dut, fin, minox to name a few...)

[Hubris]

I used to have terrible tinnitus from being overexposed to loud noises, but after I took myself away from this environment I slowly recovered to the point where I am now 'cured'. This is one of the most annoying conditions on Earth. From my understanding, it is often caused by tiny hair cells inside the ear becoming damaged. These damaged hair cells produce random noises, which your brain is unable to discriminate against and filter out.

Tinnitus happens to be a very common ailment, so I would look to other areas of your life before jumping to the conclusion that Bimatoprost is the cause. I guess it might be possible that Bimatoprost could alter the tiny hair cells in some way, but at this point I'm probably talking broscience as Swooping would refer to it.

[eldarlmario]

I do not know the reason why people are still pinning hopes on Bimatoprost for hairloss on the bald scalp

From the Cotsarelis patent:

GD2 was detected as 17 pg/mg of tissue in haired scalp and 75.5 pg/mg in bald scalp, representing a 4.4 fold increase in bald tissue. PGF2a also was slightly elevated in bald scalp with 6.7 pg/mg in haired scalp and 15.9 pg/mg in bald scalp.

I choose to follow Dr Cotsareli's findings anytime of the day.