Human ESC-Derived Hair Inducing Cells for Hair Regeneration

[Tenma]

http://sanfordburnham.flintbox.com/public/project/26244/

Arashi, Swoop, Desmond? What do you guys think about this?

This line of investigation promises to avoid the dp culturing issue.

They directed human embryonic stem cells to generate first NC cells and then hair-inducing DP-like cells in culture.

[joachim]

this is exactly what we need!!!
Dr. Xu described this as the next missing piece as so far he was only able to create ephitelial cells from iPS, but DP cells from iPS was the next step. when those both cell types come together, a new hair follicle is formed. so it turns out that Dr. Xu doesn't have to figure out this step anymore, thus no further crowdfunding required.

i didn't think that this DP cell from iPS creation was coming so fast. that's awesome.

there's one other issue though. iPS cells are currently created by gene editing. although gene editing is very promising and relatively safe to some certain degree, it's still im development, but very fast progressing.
Dr. Xu mentioned that he hopes iPS cells can be created from skin cells by adding different chemical pieces like proteins and so on. this would be easier and more cost effective. (if you remember: unfortunetaly, the story about dipping blood into acid to get stem cells turned out to be untrue).
the other thing is: stem cells are often mixed up, because there are human embryonic stem cells (ethically questionable) and iPS cells which are very similar but not exactly the same. both types are stem cells and have great potential for being transformed into every other cell type like DP cells and so on. but there are a few differences, so it could turn out that iPS cells are not suited for every transformation, or vice versa. it could also be the case that iPS is better for some use cases, compared to embryonic stem cells.

so this is to be seen, and if this last question is answered, then i really don't see why we can't start some fu**ing human trials to create some nice denovo hairs.

[hellouser]

First time I've read an article where mice aren't mentioned. Hopefully this goes straight to humans... you know, make it APPLICABLE in the real world.

[Tenma]

this is exactly what we need!!!
Dr. Xu described this as the next missing piece as so far he was only able to create ephitelial cells from iPS, but DP cells from iPS was the next step. when those both cell types come together, a new hair follicle is formed. so it turns out that Dr. Xu doesn't have to figure out this step anymore, thus no further crowdfunding required.

i didn't think that this DP cell from iPS creation was coming so fast. that's awesome.

there's one other issue though. iPS cells are currently created by gene editing. although gene editing is very promising and relatively safe to some certain degree, it's still im development, but very fast progressing.
Dr. Xu mentioned that he hopes iPS cells can be created from skin cells by adding different chemical pieces like proteins and so on. this would be easier and more cost effective. (if you remember: unfortunetaly, the story about dipping blood into acid to get stem cells turned out to be untrue).
the other thing is: stem cells are often mixed up, because there are human embryonic stem cells (ethically questionable) and iPS cells which are very similar but not exactly the same. both types are stem cells and have great potential for being transformed into every other cell type like DP cells and so on. but there are a few differences, so it could turn out that iPS cells are not suited for every transformation, or vice versa. it could also be the case that iPS is better for some use cases, compared to embryonic stem cells.

so this is to be seen, and if this last question is answered, then i really don't see why we can't start some fu**ing human trials to create some nice denovo hairs.

Yeah, pretty exciting stuff.

Here is something very important:

"Subject-specific iPSC-derived DP-like cells represent a unique unlimited source of syngeneic (i.e. immunologically identical) cells for transplantation therapies to induce hair growth in humans."

That means they are after an autologous (using our own cells) therapy.

[Illusion]

Sounds interesting. But I don't get why this hasn't really got a lot of attention before? The article you linked to in the OP is posted on Oct 6, 2014.

This is good news but thing is, when things like these don't get a lot of attention immediately I sort of automatically assume it's nothing special...

[joachim]

Sounds interesting. But I don't get why this hasn't really got a lot of attention before? The article you linked to in the OP is posted on Oct 6, 2014.

This is good news but thing is, when things like these don't get a lot of attention immediately I sort of automatically assume it's nothing special...

it's not really a long time. 3 months only until one of us stumbled across that news.
or are you referring to the usual hairloss cure headlines which should pop up all over the news? =) it's only a matter of time til we see such headlines.
however, i think this is great news. all the talks about retaining lost gene expression during DP culturing is irrelevant in my opinion. i don't think that one of the researchers will ever be able to multiply perfect DP cells with the traditional route, so the route via stem cells, creating fresh fully potent DP cells in unlimited numbers is far more promising.
the only remaining thing, like mentioned, is how to get the stem cells. (gene editing or not?).
as stem cells research is growing exponentially all over the world (as it is the cure to almost everything) i have no doubt that we will see an easy way to achieve this. and even if the way has to be through gene editing, i don't see it as a showstopper. some months ago scientists presented a way how they can exactly control/edit genes very precisely. with such a method you can cure practically every disease.

i would like to here sdsurfin's opinion on it. are you still in contact with Dr. Xu? would be interesting what he has to say about that achievement... and how to proceed with creating iPS cells etc.

i can smell it. the cure gets closer and closer... still some years away, but we're by far not talking about 20 years anymore. if practiced in japan, a cure with stem cells should and could come in the next 5 years, otherwise...

[sdsurfin]

it's not really a long time. 3 months only until one of us stumbled across that news.
or are you referring to the usual hairloss cure headlines which should pop up all over the news? =) it's only a matter of time til we see such headlines.
however, i think this is great news. all the talks about retaining lost gene expression during DP culturing is irrelevant in my opinion. i don't think that one of the researchers will ever be able to multiply perfect DP cells with the traditional route, so the route via stem cells, creating fresh fully potent DP cells in unlimited numbers is far more promising.
the only remaining thing, like mentioned, is how to get the stem cells. (gene editing or not?).
as stem cells research is growing exponentially all over the world (as it is the cure to almost everything) i have no doubt that we will see an easy way to achieve this. and even if the way has to be through gene editing, i don't see it as a showstopper. some months ago scientists presented a way how they can exactly control/edit genes very precisely. with such a method you can cure practically every disease.

i would like to here sdsurfin's opinion on it. are you still in contact with Dr. Xu? would be interesting what he has to say about that achievement... and how to proceed with creating iPS cells etc.

i can smell it. the cure gets closer and closer... still some years away, but we're by far not talking about 20 years anymore. if practiced in japan, a cure with stem cells should and could come in the next 5 years, otherwise...

My opinion is that this is another baby step, but we are in the very beginning days of these treatments. Look how long it took replicel to go from a solid idea to where they are now. its been ages and they still don't have anything useable. I have no doubt that new cell therapies are coming, but probably not for most of us on here. Also bimatoprost apparently now is proven to have pretty ****ed up side effects (eye swelling) in most patients, so I'm really not too hopeful for anything in the near future regarding hair loss. Replicel is the only thing with any promise near term, and i have serious doubts about them. The CEO keeps harping on the fact that they will test dosage and repetition, but their new tests do not have a higher dosage, and there is only a second injection. I highly highly doubt that the results will be much better than the first time around. I would still get the treatment if it maintained most hair, but who knows if they will even bring it to market if that is the case.

[joachim]

My opinion is that this is another baby step, but we are in the very beginning days of these treatments. Look how long it took replicel to go from a solid idea to where they are now. its been ages and they still don't have anything useable. I have no doubt that new cell therapies are coming, but probably not for most of us on here. Also bimatoprost apparently now is proven to have pretty ****ed up side effects (eye swelling) in most patients, so I'm really not too hopeful for anything in the near future regarding hair loss. Replicel is the only thing with any promise near term, and i have serious doubts about them. The CEO keeps harping on the fact that they will test dosage and repetition, but their new tests do not have a higher dosage, and there is only a second injection. I highly highly doubt that the results will be much better than the first time around. I would still get the treatment if it maintained most hair, but who knows if they will even bring it to market if that is the case.

a baby step? the DP culturing problem is what it's been all about for years. every researcher is trying to retain the quality of DP cells... jahoda, TU berlin, etc.
it's still not possible to multiply them in millions in a traditional way because they lose their gene expression. DP cells creation from stem cells gives you unlimited fresh supply of these cells which alone can trigger the formation of a new hair when implanted into the skin.

did you forget about dr. Xu? why he tried to create those cells from iPS?
i'm wondering how you can call it baby step =)
this is practically the best news since years and will likely lead to the cure on a long-term.

[DepressedByHairLoss]

I found out about this experiment on this forum actually and it blew my mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc3fPeNZooA. I wonder if they could use a similar procedure to clone hair follicles. Dr. Xu really seems like a good guy who is open to feedback from hair loss sufferers, maybe some one should bring this experiment to his attention. After all, it was conducted in his state of Pennsylvania.

[FearTheLoss]

My opinion is that this is another baby step, but we are in the very beginning days of these treatments. Look how long it took replicel to go from a solid idea to where they are now. its been ages and they still don't have anything useable. I have no doubt that new cell therapies are coming, but probably not for most of us on here. Also bimatoprost apparently now is proven to have pretty ****ed up side effects (eye swelling) in most patients, so I'm really not too hopeful for anything in the near future regarding hair loss. Replicel is the only thing with any promise near term, and i have serious doubts about them. The CEO keeps harping on the fact that they will test dosage and repetition, but their new tests do not have a higher dosage, and there is only a second injection. I highly highly doubt that the results will be much better than the first time around. I would still get the treatment if it maintained most hair, but who knows if they will even bring it to market if that is the case.

I can't tell if you are being serious about the eye swelling. You aren't putting it in your eyes for your hair..Secondly, you don't even know Replicel's results from the first time around, so you have no basis to be critical of them.

[brocktherock]

My opinion is that this is another baby step, but we are in the very beginning days of these treatments. Look how long it took replicel to go from a solid idea to where they are now. its been ages and they still don't have anything useable. I have no doubt that new cell therapies are coming, but probably not for most of us on here. Also bimatoprost apparently now is proven to have pretty ****ed up side effects (eye swelling) in most patients, so I'm really not too hopeful for anything in the near future regarding hair loss. Replicel is the only thing with any promise near term, and i have serious doubts about them. The CEO keeps harping on the fact that they will test dosage and repetition, but their new tests do not have a higher dosage, and there is only a second injection. I highly highly doubt that the results will be much better than the first time around. I would still get the treatment if it maintained most hair, but who knows if they will even bring it to market if that is the case.

Replicel is trying 3 different doses. There were people who had 20% improvement in SIX MONTHS from ONE INJECTION at a conservative dose. I don't know how much sheseido will contribute with their trial but I'm quite confident that this will be the cure we've been waiting for or damn close to it.

[The Alchemist]

I can't tell if you are being serious about the eye swelling. You aren't putting it in your eyes for your hair..Secondly, you don't even know Replicel's results from the first time around, so you have no basis to be critical of them.

The eye swelling occurs regardless of where you apply Bim - I know from first hand experience. And Replicel reported their results from phase I which was a much higher dose than they'll use for phase II, so his opinion is not without basis. However, i recall reading that they've altered their cell reproduction process - which is why they've been so delayed in starting phase II. What, if any, affects this will have on their results remains to be seen. We can only hope that something was significantly wrong with their original process which led to their underwhelming results from phase I. Maybe this corrected process will yield much better results. We can only hope...

[sdsurfin]

I can't tell if you are being serious about the eye swelling. You aren't putting it in your eyes for your hair..Secondly, you don't even know Replicel's results from the first time around, so you have no basis to be critical of them.

Read the thread that talks about it, it's real. and according to the published paper that is linked, this side effect happens in pretty much every bimatoprost user. its not pretty. theres a possibility it might not happen if not used on the eyelid, but the person who was talking about it on that thread experienced it and was using it only on his hairline, and at a much lower concentration.
bottom line is any drug is going to have unwanted sides. some people seem to be almost immune to nearly all side effects, but I'm not one of them.

as far as replicel is concerned, i know their first trial results very well. they had an average of 11 percent increase after 6 months. that is absolutely nothing cosmetically. their dosage in the phase I trial was a maximum safety dosage, you can find that in their own literature. If they already used a max dose, results are not gonna be better this time around. its comma sense. I contacted replicel about this (they had answered my previous queries), and they did not respond back. My guess is Hall is trying to keep this alive at all costs, and is concentrating on the dosage issue to distract from their piss poor results in phase I. If this ever does get released theres no way its a cure. best case scenario its good for maintenance, though something tells me you'd have to keep getting it every so often.

[Justinian]

Read the thread that talks about it, it's real. and according to the published paper that is linked, this side effect happens in pretty much every bimatoprost user. its not pretty. theres a possibility it might not happen if not used on the eyelid, but the person who was talking about it on that thread experienced it and was using it only on his hairline, and at a much lower concentration.
bottom line is any drug is going to have unwanted sides. some people seem to be almost immune to nearly all side effects, but I'm not one of them.

as far as replicel is concerned, i know their first trial results very well. they had an average of 11 percent increase after 6 months. that is absolutely nothing cosmetically. their dosage in the phase I trial was a maximum safety dosage, you can find that in their own literature. If they already used a max dose, results are not gonna be better this time around. its comma sense. I contacted replicel about this (they had answered my previous queries), and they did not respond back. My guess is Hall is trying to keep this alive at all costs, and is concentrating on the dosage issue to distract from their piss poor results in phase I. If this ever does get released theres no way its a cure. best case scenario its good for maintenance, though something tells me you'd have to keep getting it every so often.

Can you link to the paper that says nearly everybody got that side effect? I don't know what thread that is.

The first Replicel trial was just a one time injection, right? 11% is pretty good for a one time thing. Now, who says those results won't compound? They are testing multiple injections in the upcoming trials I believe. For this type of treatment that could be the equivalent of a larger dose.

[FearTheLoss]

Read the thread that talks about it, it's real. and according to the published paper that is linked, this side effect happens in pretty much every bimatoprost user. its not pretty. theres a possibility it might not happen if not used on the eyelid, but the person who was talking about it on that thread experienced it and was using it only on his hairline, and at a much lower concentration.
bottom line is any drug is going to have unwanted sides. some people seem to be almost immune to nearly all side effects, but I'm not one of them.

as far as replicel is concerned, i know their first trial results very well. they had an average of 11 percent increase after 6 months. that is absolutely nothing cosmetically. their dosage in the phase I trial was a maximum safety dosage, you can find that in their own literature. If they already used a max dose, results are not gonna be better this time around. its comma sense. I contacted replicel about this (they had answered my previous queries), and they did not respond back. My guess is Hall is trying to keep this alive at all costs, and is concentrating on the dosage issue to distract from their piss poor results in phase I. If this ever does get released theres no way its a cure. best case scenario its good for maintenance, though something tells me you'd have to keep getting it every so often.

That was the results at 6 months, which is absolutely meaningless. I'm sorry, but you're opinion is essentially based off nothing. Also, what one user reports on his experimental trial with bim doesn't mean much.