Pilox Update

**caddarik79** · 08-21-2014, 06:55 AM

Originally posted by Arashi

+1. Nobody 'scared' him away !! He chose to run away when confronted with criticism. Nobody told him to go, nobody insulted him in a nasty way. What you're basically preaching is that people hold off criticism. That would turn a forum into scammers heaven, exactly like HS is scammers heaven, since anybody who sponsors there can have criticism deleted and posters banned. Maybe Yoram should have posted there then. But as long we live in a free world and free forums exists, like thise one, I WILL keep posting criticism to anyone who deserves it ! And if you sell and market blood sucking leechers as a valid and useful hairloss therapy, you deserve criticism !!

+100

**brunobald** · 08-21-2014, 07:00 AM

Yoram is not posting on the forums because he was told not to by Pilogics ltd the company that invented Pilox in Israel, they are also his employer.

The company is owned by Erez Manor and Prof Dov Ingman and prob a few other investors we do not know about, not Yoram. Prof Dov Ingman is a respected scientist in Israel, I am assuming this is a project between himself and Erez while they were both working at the universtiy. Erez Manor was Dov Ingmans student while he was studying for his PHD. If you search for Erez Manor you can read his PHD as well as work from Dov Ingman. The work is quailty and Ingman appears to be well practised in medical inovations some of which have already been commercialized and have good reviews and white papers to back up the products with evidence.

I very much doubt two successful scientists would bother spending so much time, money and effort patenting and producing a device intended to be a scam. For one the captital investment in something like this is huge, plastic injection mold tools and jigs used to make a complicated device like this for mass production can run easily into the 100,000's of dollars.

Then we have Yorams documentation of the results, the photos are some of the best we have seen. High resolution, good attempt at keeping both the hair and lighting consistant, and he has a custom jig made to keep the head in the same postion for each photo that can be months apart. All this takes time and money to get right not to mention lots of willing volenteers I think they have over 200 right now, which is a lot by anyone standards.

Of course it could still be a scam just like theradome, they also have a fancy factory and a "nasa space scientist" leading them but I think there is far more meat to the pilox story. I think it is still worth our while seeing what they have to offer when the lanch date arrives. Then we can disect the evidence and out them if it is scam, if it is for real I think they will be up for sending out some free units to testers to review, I know I would do the same if it really works as well as the photos show. Viral marketing is the cheapest and most effective method of lanching a product on a small scale.

**bigentries** · 08-21-2014, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by NeedHairASAP

To be fair, it's been just barely 9 months. So it is getting close to being called a fair length of time (one year to 16 months seems to be what we give fin as a timeline).

Of course the other photos showed people with some significant improvement in 4-7 months... so I would have liked to see more at 9 months.

Still, I haven't seen anybody do an examination of any portions of the scalp-- granted the photos aren't the best for comparison. I feel I see some slight improvement in some areas but I'm not into photoshop (or even basic cropping). I'm not sure why other people (arashi) haven't done the "analysis" more closely.

I admit, if there is any improvement, it's not significant.

My main point is that we could have known something was a scam much faster if we didn't chase yoram away with a pitchfork (for almost no reason other than people get off being the white knight).

Lets not forget that arashi was saying vraf was "in on it". That theory seemed to be swept under the rug now though, as it is obviously not the case. Another example of some people "jumping the gun".... to say the least.

Arashi and others have obviously done some good in asking tough questions to people that show up with "new cures"--- but I wish we'd use more of a Socratic method (let the individual hang around so we can gather evidence) rather than scaring away what is often our only way of deciphering scam from non-scam.

That said, I still have interest in pilox but am skeptical as vrafs results are blah. Maybe if we didn't scare yoram away, we'd have more data points than one single dude.

It's weird you bring the Socratic method, that was exactly what was done. The fact that he ran away when he couldn't support his claims is enough proof he was into something. He tried to falsify the first improvement pics (that people like you supported as a big improvement) and he couldn't clarify why the trichoscans didn't made sense

Seriously dude, people like you are poisonous to hair loss communities. You actively white knighted the Pilox crap and are a Gho apologist.
We could have known if he was an scammer way faster if you took the skeptic side instead of defending him when someone pointed something was wrong

**NeedHairASAP** · 08-21-2014, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by Arashi

Nobody told him to go, nobody insulted him in a nasty way. !

I'm pretty sure you got kicked off the other forum because the general consensus was you were going past asking good hard questions, and into the realm of insulting and being nasty.

You guys keep acting like I said don't ask questions... which isn't what I said. I'm saying it would be nice to have more information at this point, instead of having no information.

and I'm not advocating leeches for hairloss but before we act like it's absolutely medieval and below any developed nation to use leeches :

an april 2014 article about use in the USA: Woman's ear reattached with help of leeches

"The case is reported in the April 17 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine"

"In 2004, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved these blood-sucking worms for use in medicine."

"Ear reattachment is challenging because of the tiny veins and arteries that feed the area, Sullivan said. Only about 50 successful procedures have been reported in the literature worldwide."

404 | Fox News

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/04/17/woman-ear-reattached-with-help-leeches/

More use of leeches in leading US institutions by well regarded surgeons and doctors:

The return of the leech - Scienceline

http://scienceline.org/2014/01/the-return-of-the-leech/

Healers used them for centuries, and now the little bloodsuckers are back in the hands of doctors and surgeons

The BC Medical Journal's history of bloodletting
USA Today's 2004 look at medicinal use of leeches and maggots, when the FDA began permitting it

Health Sciences Blog | Rasmussen University

http://www.rasmussen.edu/degrees/health-sciences/blog/leeches-in-modern-medicine/

Explore the world of Health Sciences on our blog. Gain knowledge, keep up with latest trends and enhance your professional growth.

Some doctors still use leeches. This is what it’s like to be treated by one.

http://www.vox.com/2014/6/19/5820750/leeches-are-making-a-comeback-in-modern-medicine-really

Vox is a general interest news site for the 21st century. Its mission: to help everyone understand our complicated world, so that we can all help shape it. In text, video and audio, our reporters explain politics, policy, world affairs, technology, culture, science, the climate crisis, money, health and everything else that matters. Our goal is to ensure that everyone, regardless of income or status, can access accurate information that empowers them.

So if we're going to call Yoram out, lets call out New York City hospitals, Rhode island hospitals, Boston College, handfulls of US surgeons and doctors, and the FDA

**bigentries** · 08-21-2014, 09:18 AM

What about acupuncture? It is considered a pseudo-science

Arashi didn't insult anyone

I don't remember any of Arashi's post being edited or deleted. You and many of Yoram's whiteknghts had many posts edited or deleted because they were full of insults just because you didn't liked any questions that were difficult to Yoram. Not to say that you publicly acknowledged that you believed Yoram was absolutely legit and you were on his side

I was banned too from the private forum, they have a very weird policy concerning skepticism, but I understand them, since they want to protect their "guests" like Yoram and Nigam.

The fact that they have two strikes should make them reconsider their "open mindedness", that place is a scammers heaven as it is

**bigentries** · 08-21-2014, 09:32 AM

Here are some words of wisdom from OP about Yoram

piloxll:new israeli method combines wounding+ zi/cu ions to destroy dht in the scalp - Bald Truth Talk - Hair Loss, Hair Transplant and Hair Restoration Community

https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/threads/14832-piloxll-new-israeli-method-combines-wounding-zi-cu-ions-to-destroy-dht-in-the-scalp?p=163794&highlight=#post163794