Pilox Update

[Pentarou]

Worst before/after photos ever.

[luca10]

There are pictures of this device?

[nameless]

Maybe you do have an IQ of 120, but my IQ dropped to 0 when I had to read this.

Not much of a drop I would imagine.

[bigentries]

As I said a year ago - I'm ready to give it a shot, we need at least 10 people trying something before ruling it out or calling it holy grail.

Lets do it guys!

There was another guy trialling it. He stopped talking about it, even jumped to another treatment. No one wanted to answer why he stopped trialling it.

The hairloss community needs to start asking more questions and stop being "open minded" for the sake of it. Remember how well received this guy was?

[NeedHairASAP]

There was another guy trialling it. He stopped talking about it, even jumped to another treatment. No one wanted to answer why he stopped trialling it.

The hairloss community needs to start asking more questions and stop being "open minded" for the sake of it. Remember how well received this guy was?

If I remember correctly, they answered almost every question up to telling you guys how to build one at home... when they wouldn't tell you guys enough to build one at home, people essentially chased yoram and vraf off the forums... which leaves us here... with no evidence, nobody answering question, nothing.

All the "white knights" like bigentries and arashi who thought they were "saving us from a scam", have now instead left us more open to being scammed. If they had just let these guys keep posting, we'd have enough evidence now to know whether it was a scam or legit. Instead, they were chased off the forum and we are here still guessing that it's a scam, well some are willing still going to try it.

So, Arashi and others, please don't save me, or the community. Rather, lets let guys like pilox and the chloride guy play out their scams... we'll find out much faster that way what is good and what is bad, rather than getting very pre-maturely "saved" by the white knight crew.

I appreciate the effort, but can we not scare away our only route to finding if something is s scam or not?

thanks.

[nameless]

Maybe you do have an IQ of 120, but my IQ dropped to 0 when I had to read this.

Short drop.

[Haircure]

If I remember correctly, they answered almost every question up to telling you guys how to build one at home... when they wouldn't tell you guys enough to build one at home, people essentially chased yoram and vraf off the forums... which leaves us here... with no evidence, nobody answering question, nothing.

All the "white knights" like bigentries and arashi who thought they were "saving us from a scam", have now instead left us more open to being scammed. If they had just let these guys keep posting, we'd have enough evidence now to know whether it was a scam or legit. Instead, they were chased off the forum and we are here still guessing that it's a scam, well some are willing still going to try it.

So, Arashi and others, please don't save me, or the community. Rather, lets let guys like pilox and the chloride guy play out their scams... we'll find out much faster that way what is good and what is bad, rather than getting very pre-maturely "saved" by the white knight crew.

I appreciate the effort, but can we not scare away our only route to finding if something is s scam or not?

thanks.

What exactly are they scared of? They had no evidence besides some pictures and when asked certain questions they made excuses and left. Tell me that doesn't scream scam to you. Even through all that, vrafs updates clearly show no improvement, and to those who say he might have maintained his hair, you can easily argue that his hair loss was slow to begin with and therefore harder to determine if in fact he maintenance or not. Finally I recall, they said they would publish a scientific article months ago, and still no sign of it. From the beginning it had signs of a scam and it's showing even more clearly now, some people just have a hard time accepting it.

[maomao]

Even through all that, vrafs updates clearly show no improvement, and to those who say he might have maintained his hair, you can easily argue that his hair loss was slow to begin with and therefore harder to determine if in fact he maintenance or not.

Not getting into whether Pilox works on not argument, but if you start to judge products based on that, some real working ones might be called scam.

If someone tries something new, and after one year looks exactly the same - then I'd call that a success. We don't now want people proclaiming "oh maybe it was just slow naturally" - as the only way someone can prove that is if they have years of previous photos to compare with...

[Haircure]

Not getting into whether Pilox works on not argument, but if you start to judge products based on that, some real working ones might be called scam.

If someone tries something new, and after one year looks exactly the same - then I'd call that a success. We don't now want people proclaiming "oh maybe it was just slow naturally" - as the only way someone can prove that is if they have years of previous photos to compare with...

Yes I agree with your point but that is just one of the many reasons I'm fairly certain it's another scam product. There have been just too many inconsistencies and very little evidence to any of the claims made by Yoram, who by the way is not a doctor and deals with known snake oil treatments. I think if you see numerous red flags and very little answers it's time to call it for what it is, and not be biased just because we were shown some promising pictures early on.

[bigentries]

Wow, did I just read that scammers should go unopposed because you are "Whiteknighting" bald guys if you show skepticism? At least I know this is coming from a Gho apologist

[Arashi]

What exactly are they scared of? They had no evidence besides some pictures and when asked certain questions they made excuses and left. Tell me that doesn't scream scam to you.

Exactly. Yoram didnt want to explain ANYTHING at all about his product and when confronted with criticism he ran away. Combine that with the fact that this guy is a PROVEN scammer (selling snake oil therapies like blood sucking leeches for christ's sake and all other kinds of crazy scam therapies like acupuncture for hairloss), that the whole story of that hairdresser never made any sense and that now vraf shows 0 improvement after almost a year and you can't possibly say I was wrong ! No, this guy was clearly a scammer and if the hairloss community needs anything like a pain in the ass, it are more scammers trying to make a buck out of our misery !

[NeedHairASAP]

Exactly. Yoram didnt want to explain ANYTHING at all about his product and when confronted with criticism he ran away. Combine that with the fact that this guy is a PROVEN scammer (selling snake oil therapies like blood sucking leeches for christ's sake and all other kinds of crazy scam therapies like acupuncture for hairloss), that the whole story of that hairdresser never made any sense and that now vraf shows 0 improvement after almost a year and you can't possibly say I was wrong ! No, this guy was clearly a scammer and if the hairloss community needs anything like a pain in the ass, it are more scammers trying to make a buck out of our misery !

To be fair, it's been just barely 9 months. So it is getting close to being called a fair length of time (one year to 16 months seems to be what we give fin as a timeline).

Of course the other photos showed people with some significant improvement in 4-7 months... so I would have liked to see more at 9 months.

Still, I haven't seen anybody do an examination of any portions of the scalp-- granted the photos aren't the best for comparison. I feel I see some slight improvement in some areas but I'm not into photoshop (or even basic cropping). I'm not sure why other people (arashi) haven't done the "analysis" more closely.

I admit, if there is any improvement, it's not significant.

My main point is that we could have known something was a scam much faster if we didn't chase yoram away with a pitchfork (for almost no reason other than people get off being the white knight).

Lets not forget that arashi was saying vraf was "in on it". That theory seemed to be swept under the rug now though, as it is obviously not the case. Another example of some people "jumping the gun".... to say the least.

Arashi and others have obviously done some good in asking tough questions to people that show up with "new cures"--- but I wish we'd use more of a Socratic method (let the individual hang around so we can gather evidence) rather than scaring away what is often our only way of deciphering scam from non-scam.

That said, I still have interest in pilox but am skeptical as vrafs results are blah. Maybe if we didn't scare yoram away, we'd have more data points than one single dude.

[Haircure]

To be fair, it's been just barely 9 months. So it is getting close to being called a fair length of time (one year to 16 months seems to be what we give fin as a timeline).

Of course the other photos showed people with some significant improvement in 4-7 months... so I would have liked to see more at 9 months.

Still, I haven't seen anybody do an examination of any portions of the scalp-- granted the photos aren't the best for comparison. I feel I see some slight improvement in some areas but I'm not into photoshop (or even basic cropping). I'm not sure why other people (arashi) haven't done the "analysis" more closely.

I admit, if there is any improvement, it's not significant.

My main point is that we could have known something was a scam much faster if we didn't chase yoram away with a pitchfork (for almost no reason other than people get off being the white knight).

Lets not forget that arashi was saying vraf was "in on it". That theory seemed to be swept under the rug now though, as it is obviously not the case. Another example of some people "jumping the gun".... to say the least.

Arashi and others have obviously done some good in asking tough questions to people that show up with "new cures"--- but I wish we'd use more of a Socratic method (let the individual hang around so we can gather evidence) rather than scaring away what is often our only way of deciphering scam from non-scam.

That said, I still have interest in pilox but am skeptical as vrafs results are blah. Maybe if we didn't scare yoram away, we'd have more data points than one single dude.

Again why would someone be scared if they had nothing to hide? It's an online forum, which means there's a great deal of anonymity and on top of that Yoram posted in a private forum. If there is any form of criticism or scrutiny it can be easily dealt with some facts. Even after they both left, Yoram and Vraf still visited the private forum regularly so they were not in fact "scared" away.

I think some people just need to realize when to let go and not let their personal need for a treatment to cloud their judgement.

[NeedHairASAP]

Again why would someone be scared if they had nothing to hide?

Well, obviously you guys can't wrap your head around why a company representative may not want to divulge all their secrets or sit on a forum being harassed and accused.... so I'll just forfeit this argument. You guys are right.

[Arashi]

Again why would someone be scared if they had nothing to hide? It's an online forum, which means there's a great deal of anonymity and on top of that Yoram posted in a private forum.

+1. Nobody 'scared' him away !! He chose to run away when confronted with criticism. Nobody told him to go, nobody insulted him in a nasty way. What you're basically preaching is that people hold off criticism. That would turn a forum into scammers heaven, exactly like HS is scammers heaven, since anybody who sponsors there can have criticism deleted and posters banned. Maybe Yoram should have posted there then. But as long we live in a free world and free forums exists, like thise one, I WILL keep posting criticism to anyone who deserves it ! And if you sell and market blood sucking leechers as a valid and useful hairloss therapy, you deserve criticism !!