What Treatments are we going to have?

[Swooping]

Is that dermabrasion dangerous for the "healthy" hair near the areas where you want to grow hair?

I don't know. What they did is firstly this trial;

(2a? or 1) https://cdn.anonfiles.com/1339937980216.pdf N=33

Then they followed it up with dermabrasion (wounding) plus lithium (gsk3b) inhibitor.

Patent;

http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2012078649&recNum=1&maxRec=&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=&queryString=&tab=PCTDescription

Why is everyone even counting on follica? I don't really know what there is so excited about, no wonder he lacks funding .

[hgs1989]

Their primary interest is to induce de-novo morphogenesis, but they have never achieved this obviously, way too complicated and even Cotsarelis himself says FGF9 is just in PRE-clinical trials. It is very interesting but extremely hard to achieve.

What they did in phase 2 is most likely dermabrasion, applying a hydrogel thereafter and then most likely adding a gsk3b inhibitor (induce WNT) or minoxidil or whatever. YES obviously this will grow hair! But isn't something spectacular and far from the cure.

they did grew new hair follicle on a human scalp. I remember reading an interview with cotseralis that the hairs behave like the surrounding ones hence, no cosmetically efficient results. he even said he thinks estrogen application might interfere with the process and lead the follicle to think they are female hair follicles hence terminal hair. here is a link to one interview he mentions estrogen http://www.aad.org/dw/monthly/2012/j...lopecia-#page1 , but I cant find the one that he says that application of estrogen might turn the new follciles to female follicles

[locke999]

This isn't exactly true.

I never said Follica is near a cure. I have said that Follica is near finishing trials... because they are.

I was under the impression that you think that if Follica finished their trials, they would effectively have a cure. I don't know where you get the notion that Follica is near finishing trials. Dr.Cotsarelis has told Desmond they need money to move on with trials. And just from the way he was talking to Desmond--2 million for something as good as finasteride, 20 million for cure--is pretty telling that he has nothing, or for whatever reason, investors are not on board.

That PureTech ventures pipeline website hasn't been updated in ages and is probably not even accurate. I think its just a quickly put together infographic meant to say "Hey look at us, look at all this stuff we got going on" and nothing more.

[Scientalk56]

Thank you all for your responses...

It's sad, to see that most discoveries and findings won't be a reality until 30-40 years from now..
At least we are not fooled into thinking that next treatment is five years away.
It seems like Minoxidil and Propecia will still be our best option for several decades..
I stopped getting excited from discoveries, i will only get excited when i will have a working product in my hands..

Anyway, we should move on and live our lives before its too late.

[hellouser]

I was under the impression that you think that if Follica finished their trials, they would effectively have a cure. I don't know where you get the notion that Follica is near finishing trials. Dr.Cotsarelis has told Desmond they need money to move on with trials. And just from the way he was talking to Desmond--2 million for something as good as finasteride, 20 million for cure--is pretty telling that he has nothing, or for whatever reason, investors are not on board.

How much closer to completion would they need to be in order for you to say 'they're closer' if all they've got left is a Phase III trial?

That PureTech ventures pipeline website hasn't been updated in ages and is probably not even accurate. I think its just a quickly put together infographic meant to say "Hey look at us, look at all this stuff we got going on" and nothing more.

That is definitely NOT a 'quickly put together infographic'. If you're going to say that, you may as well make the same statement about the entire website.

Follica IS close to a commercial treatment. This isn't even up for debate.

Whether or not they're actually going to run the trial, is another discussion.

[CAlex]

Id have to agree with Scientalk56 that we probably wont be getting anything within the next 5 years. Follica has seemed to be having financial issues I read has even given up or realized the wounding method isn't creating such a great environment for results as they initially believed.

I just dont think any of the current treatments (follica histogen replicel) even if any of them ever come to market will be a great use in regrowing lost hair. They will most likely be a great tool for those at the very beginning stages of any type of HL and could be used to stop any further progression.

For anyone who is hoping to regrow hair in areas with no hair I dont think anything that will be a big benefit could be to market before 10-15 years based on what we know so far IMO.

Finally, any treatments that just hope to grow hairs in the lab and then have them implanted will just be a HT with unlimited donor which is still basically worthless IMO. Density issues, unnatural look, hair texture gets wirey after implantation, angles Never look 100% natural, Micro scarring will most likely cause problems for future growth treatments if they ever arrive.

The best treatments would be like the injectables currently being worked on by histogen etc. They would just have to produce a much higher regrowth yield. It seems the only way to have the potential to produce natural looking(texture,angle) and also density.

I cant see a serum like this being available under 10 years.

@hellouser. I dont think follica is close. They may only have 1 phase to go but they seem to have gotten off their horse and are on the sidelines of the race. If they were currently conducting the trials they would be close, depending on the outcome of the trial.

P.S. unless I missed something Desmond posted coming from left field from the Conference I think were in for a long wait.

[joachim]

"just a HT with unlimited donor... still worthless" LOL. what a BS.

unlimited donor IS the cure. density and angle are no problems at all then. a good surgeon with the right tools can create a density of 80 to 100 grafts per cm2, which is over 150 hairs per cm2.

[sdsurfin]

How much closer to completion would they need to be in order for you to say 'they're closer' if all they've got left is a Phase III trial?



That is definitely NOT a 'quickly put together infographic'. If you're going to say that, you may as well make the same statement about the entire website.

Follica IS close to a commercial treatment. This isn't even up for debate.

Whether or not they're actually going to run the trial, is another discussion.

Follica doesn't have shit. going through trials doesnt mean anything. it means they had an interesting technique that can make some crappy little hairs that no one wants to put funding into. wounding to induce follicles is really dumb and inneffective cosmetically (as has been proven by countless presentations) compared to making new follicles from scratch in a lab, or making germs that can be implanted. that is why follica has no funding. hellouser doesnt know jack, he just saw an outdated infographic on the website of the finance people that shows phase 2 trials being finished. that means absolutely nothing in terms of a cosmetic product. I talked to garza about PGD2 and he says that progress is slow and theres a ton to find out even when it comes to that pathway.

guys like lauster and gardner will have something much better by the time anyone figures out the baldness pathways enough to induce follcile growth with wounding or topicals. Implanting thousands of new follicles is the cure, and i dont think angle etc will be a problem at all. when it comes to most of your head the angle isn't even that important. just rock a buzz cut and get a hair translpant in the front where the angle really matters. anyway by the time they figure this out they will prob just put it all into a computer that implants all of the new follicles into your head perfectly. The only thing we can say for sure is that there's no way a real cure (as far as planting bald scalp) is coming before next decade, the trials alone make that a reality, not to mention how far there is to go. The other thing we can say for sure is that when this type of thing does come out, its gonna be expensive as hell, and I probably wont care enough to spend that much loot on vanity. or maybe i will. either way no use pondering it now, or talking about how to make it cheaper. capitalism and demand will dictate the price, and this forum isnt gonna make an impact in that respect.

all of this "well maybe in asia, well maybe this maybe that" are BS. These things take time. get used to it. I strongly believe that something akin to histogen or replicel will come out in the next 8 years or so, (not to mention something like CB) and make a huge difference for those who are just starting to lose hair. Everyone else should just take fin if they can and care enough, and know that it's poison, or buzz down and just live, and just wait for a real cure to come, and not be disappointed if it doesnt. millions of men went bald before you. you are not special and life is unfair. man the **** up. nobody but you gives a rosy damn whether you lose your hair, and at age 32 at least half the guys I know have shit hair. its pretty much the most normal thing ever, so if you are that concerned with it that it "ruins your life" it means that you have issues besides hair loss. I know plenty of happy confident successful bald guys, seriously. don't be a loser, live your life and choose not to define yourself by your hair. look at shel silverstein, he was pretty much the coolest mother****er ever, hung out with johnny cash and pretty much killed it in every respect, and he was bald AND ugly. or like half the dudes you will know by the time you are my age.

[hellouser]

^someone is angry.

[goldbondmafia]

Hellouser, bit off topic but I remember a while back you saying your from Canada. Where do you buy your minoxidil from online? I don't really trust many online sources

[sdsurfin]

^someone is angry.

not really. just a ton of numbskullness on here. i was impressed at that crowdfunding effort to send desmond to the congress, and i think equally productive things can be done with this forum. its just frustrating to read peoples insecurities projected onto what might be happening with drug companies etc. Lot of people setting themselves up for a letdown. something good might happen for hairloss in this decade. thats pretty much all we really know, and it's pretty pointless to waste time on here discussing otherwise. go out and make money, cause youre gonna need it.

especially the really young guys on here shouldnt worry, medicine and science are changing so fast its crazy, a decade or 15 years is not a long time to just live with shitty hair if you're 20 or under. just shave it and be yourself or dont and be yourself. If you're older and already obviously bald, then why not just live with it, rock what you have, and maybe when youre an old fart they will be able to give you new hair, and maybe at that point you might want to go for it. dont be a sad sack like that joe from staten island dude. find a bald man who is a badass and confident and awesome and emulate him, not some loser who has nothing going for him but his hair or lack thereof. hair hardly matters at all in the grand scheme of things. literally almost every guy i know has lost hair, and some of the most successful in business and love (not to mention happiest ) are totally bald. no one is out to keep you down for being bald, and no one will think twice about it if you dont.

all other discussion is pretty much retarded if it is not focused on actually doing something productive like crowdfunding. using experimental chemicals on your head is just inane nonsense. medical trials exist for a reason.

[hellouser]

^You're repeating yourself. Enough already.

[hellouser]

Hellouser, bit off topic but I remember a while back you saying your from Canada. Where do you buy your minoxidil from online? I don't really trust many online sources

Ebay. Kirkland's 5%. Check my log threads.

[locke999]

How much closer to completion would they need to be in order for you to say 'they're closer' if all they've got left is a Phase III trial?



That is definitely NOT a 'quickly put together infographic'. If you're going to say that, you may as well make the same statement about the entire website.

Follica IS close to a commercial treatment. This isn't even up for debate.

Whether or not they're actually going to run the trial, is another discussion.

This is completely up for debate. You are not in the labs with them so you can't claim that you know they have a commercial treatment. We have not seen pictures, we have no seen proof. All I can remember is them saying they have consistently grown new hair follicle. Now "consistent" is up for debate.

[Thinning87]

I don't understand why you guys keep opening new threads to discuss the same things we have discussed in other threads already. It's like you're trying to make news come out of new threads by wording the same ideas differently.