Histogen news

[hellouser]

I also got the same message a year ago.. it means they're not moving forward...

Yup, just like I said; take it with a grain of salt. It's just a typical corporate answer. They'd give the same response even if they we're about to launch the product today.

[35YrsAfter]

The image below illustrates the problem I have with the Histogen photographic evidence. I downloaded a copy of "Embryonic-like cell-secreted proteins induce hair growth
in a phase I/II trial in male pattern baldness" *.pdf from the Histogen Website. A convincing side by side comparison should of course always be from the same region of scalp. I brought the images into PhotoShop and created a new transparent layer over the top of the image on the left. Next I placed green, 3 pixel dots over the hair shafts at the point they exit the scalp. Next I created a purple circle over the red dye originally on their photo. I used the duplicate layer function and created an exact copy of the transparent dot layer. Next, I moved the dot layer using the shift key (to preserve alignment) from over the top of the left (baseline) image to over the top of the (right) 3 month result photo aligning the purple circle over the red dye dot. The dots as you can see, don't align with the hair shafts emerging from the scalp. Note the hair direction is different as well!!! To be fair, I rotated the image on the right to simulate the baseline hair direction under the transparent layer. I used the "Again" command to rotate the transparent green dot layer into the exact position of the rotated scalp image below. I was still unable to align the dots in any reasonable way. I even tried moving the dot layer around every which way to see if there was any pattern of alignment to be found. There was not. One would think in a fair before and after comparison photo, a dye spot on the "before" image, would indicate the identical region of scalp on the "after" image. In other words, what good is a comparison between two different regions of scalp? Hair density and caliber would of course be different from region to region.



35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

[rhysmorgan]

The image below illustrates the problem I have with the Histogen photographic evidence. I downloaded a copy of "Embryonic-like cell-secreted proteins induce hair growth
in a phase I/II trial in male pattern baldness" *.pdf from the Histogen Website. A convincing side by side comparison should of course always be from the same region of scalp. I brought the images into PhotoShop and created a new transparent layer over the top of the image on the left. Next I placed green, 3 pixel dots over the hair shafts at the point they exit the scalp. Next I created a purple circle over the red dye originally on their photo. I used the duplicate layer function and created an exact copy of the transparent dot layer. Next, I moved the dot layer using the shift key (to preserve alignment) from over the top of the left (baseline) image to over the top of the (right) 3 month result photo aligning the purple circle over the red dye dot. The dots as you can see, don't align with the hair shafts emerging from the scalp. Note the hair direction is different as well!!! To be fair, I rotated the image on the right to simulate the baseline hair direction under the transparent layer. I used the "Again" command to rotate the transparent green dot layer into the exact position of the rotated scalp image below. I was still unable to align the dots in any reasonable way. I even tried moving the dot layer around every which way to see if there was any pattern of alignment to be found. There was not. One would think in a fair before and after comparison photo, a dye spot on the "before" image, would indicate the identical region of scalp on the "after" image. In other words, what good is a comparison between two different regions of scalp? Hair density and caliber would of course be different from region to region.

Attachment 33737

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

That's pretty shocking I have to say. Maybe it was a simple case of someone mixing up slides during publication because they looked so similar. I could easily see that happening in academia in the area I work in. Might be a case of Hanlon's razor.

[Pate]

The image below illustrates the problem I have with the Histogen photographic evidence. I downloaded a copy of "Embryonic-like cell-secreted proteins induce hair growth
in a phase I/II trial in male pattern baldness" *.pdf from the Histogen Website. A convincing side by side comparison should of course always be from the same region of scalp. I brought the images into PhotoShop and created a new transparent layer over the top of the image on the left. Next I placed green, 3 pixel dots over the hair shafts at the point they exit the scalp. Next I created a purple circle over the red dye originally on their photo. I used the duplicate layer function and created an exact copy of the transparent dot layer. Next, I moved the dot layer using the shift key (to preserve alignment) from over the top of the left (baseline) image to over the top of the (right) 3 month result photo aligning the purple circle over the red dye dot. The dots as you can see, don't align with the hair shafts emerging from the scalp. Note the hair direction is different as well!!! To be fair, I rotated the image on the right to simulate the baseline hair direction under the transparent layer. I used the "Again" command to rotate the transparent green dot layer into the exact position of the rotated scalp image below. I was still unable to align the dots in any reasonable way. I even tried moving the dot layer around every which way to see if there was any pattern of alignment to be found. There was not. One would think in a fair before and after comparison photo, a dye spot on the "before" image, would indicate the identical region of scalp on the "after" image. In other words, what good is a comparison between two different regions of scalp? Hair density and caliber would of course be different from region to region.

Attachment 33737

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

This has been pointed out previously. It's difficult to be certain with the lining up dots method due to the fact you can't be certain they've used the same zoom and the same angle to the horizontal, as well as the same angle of rotation. On top of that, hair follicles will change a fair bit over three months and there will be new hairs where there weren't previously and vice versa.

That said, it still seems pretty clear that in that particular photo, it is not the same area of scalp both times. However in other photos it IS obviously the same area (such as S2018 here http://www.histogen.com/downloads/si..._HSC_Final.pdf), so whether Histogen is doing this deliberately or accidentally is unclear.

What is clear is that they have been using just about every trick in the book on the photos (different hairstyle, different lighting, different length of shaving on close ups, some photos not of the same area) and the results still look barely improved particularly in the macro photographs, and they still don't seem to be getting any interest from funding, so I think we can safely assume things aren't going too well.

[35YrsAfter]

This has been pointed out previously. It's difficult to be certain with the lining up dots method due to the fact you can't be certain they've used the same zoom and the same angle to the horizontal, as well as the same angle of rotation. On top of that, hair follicles will change a fair bit over three months and there will be new hairs where there weren't previously and vice versa.

The dots only serve as reference points. They do help to identify inconsistent zoom and patterns of hair growth. Another consideration of course is hair direction and the dots don't help with that at all. A reasonable number of hairs should line up if an "after" photo is of the same area.

Chuck

[James7]

The dots only serve as reference points. They do help to identify inconsistent zoom and patterns of hair growth. Another consideration of course is hair direction and the dots don't help with that at all. A reasonable number of hairs should line up if an "after" photo is of the same area.

Chuck

Please can we stay on topic?

The images you are talking about were measured using Trichoscan.
Histogen and Replicel (and probably other companies too) use software and tools to get accurate hair counts.

So basically what this boils down to is, you are voicing your uncertainty about various hair count measuring devices (which are developed by other companies).

Pate is right, this particular point has already been argued ad-nauseam.

I started this thread to talk about any new Histogen news, I don't think it helps to clutter it up with other random old topics.

If you want to discus Trichoscan, please do feel free to open your own thread, if you want go over all this again.
(we can talk about it all you want there in another thread, I just think it makes it much easier to read for everyone, that's all, rather than having to scroll through pages and pages of diverting topics)

Also, I think it will be much more interesting to find out where they are going now and what is happening next.

[James7]

Ok i've some more info to add to my original opening post.

They did mention that the directors have approved up to $23M for the next phase.

I have got further clarification on this.

$6.2M has been raised, and a further $8M is currently soft circled.

Quote from Histogen:
'Based on the Company’s current strategy, an additional $13-14M will close the Series B round, enabling Histogen to reach important clinical and corporate milestones. With $8M currently soft circled, there is approximately $6M of Series B shares available to new investors.'

So from the wording, it sounds like they will actually move forward on reaching approx $20M, which means they may require just $6M now to move forward to the next phase.

If you bear in mind that they have probably only been raising this money since after the proposal of the potential merger at the end of last year 2013 finished (which didn't go ahead eventually), then they must have raised about $1M to $2M per month.

So raising $1M per month (or $2M per month if you count the soft circled), I think actually sounds quite impressive, and they do infact have a lot of interest.

And they will move forward when they reach $20M. Just thought I would share that with you guys

[Scientalk56]

Thank you for this update!

Where did u get that information from? Email or what?

[35YrsAfter]

Please can we stay on topic?

The images you are talking about were measured using Trichoscan.
Histogen and Replicel (and probably other companies too) use software and tools to get accurate hair counts.

So basically what this boils down to is, you are voicing your uncertainty about various hair count measuring devices (which are developed by other companies).

Trichoscan or whatever is fine as long as the data is useful in-house. Images indicating success released to the public should be from the same area and accurately represent success/progress. I want Histogen to be successful. Poor photographic evidence released to the public certainly isn't going to help them reach their goals.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

[James7]

Scientalk56 and 35YrsAfter, I have replied/answered your questions below

35YrsAfter:

Trichoscan or whatever is fine as long as the data is useful in-house. Images indicating success released to the public should be from the same area and accurately represent success/progress. I want Histogen to be successful. Poor photographic evidence released to the public certainly isn't going to help them reach their goals.

Well, I hear what you are saying about Trichoscan, but I disagree.
I have seen images that are outstanding and show incredible potential

You, or indeed anyone here, can open a new thread on the subject and we can discuss and examine that topic. This topic of hair images can turn into a 20 page plus debate (I've seen it before), so it really deserves it's own thread, rather than diverting from the current topic of 'histogen news'. Do you see what I mean? I hope so If you don't wish to debate it, that is also completely fine too
What would you like to do?

On the point about marketing - well my guess, is that they are not targeting the general public for marketing.
Seems likely there will be some business to business marketing (Some of the series A investments were by companies. They raised $10M back when they did the Series A.).

And if you consider that they have probably only started the Series B financing this year, they must be raising $1M to $2M per month. ($6.2M in the bank, $8M soft circled). Sounds like they know what they are doing to me, and whatever their strategy is, it seems to be working

I am glad you want Histogen to be succesful. I really think we all do, it will be a huge win for everyone! (people with hairloss, hair surgeons, hairloss organisations/advocates, the whole industry)

Scientalk56:

Thank you for this update!

Where did u get that information from? Email or what?

Anytime

Well that's what this place is for, sharing information and helping our fellow hairloss people
I was really desperate to know how things were going, so I contacted them.

I got the information directly from Histogen via Email.
The quote in the box from my last post, I took directly from the email - copy and paste.

Remember that the potential merger ended, between the end of 2013 and the beginning of this year.
So I also spelt out the rather straightforward and obvious logical conclusions, given that they began Series B this year, and the figures that they mentioned. In my own words