+ Reply to Thread
Page 11 of 11 FirstFirst ... 9 10 11
Results 101 to 108 of 108
  1. #101
    Senior Member Arashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    3,888

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Molten View Post
    Let me ask you this: If some layperson of your field were to ask you a highly specialized question and you were to then answer and explain the reasons for your answer, and then that layperson were to ask you for evidence for these reasons (which are often quite elementary and something you learn in first or second year of your field of study), what other option do you have than refer them to the textbooks to learn about the science behind it all for themselves?
    A professor at my university once said: if you can't explain complex matter to a layman, then you don't understand it yourself in the first place.

  2. #102
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Schrodinger's Box
    Posts
    910

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Molten View Post
    Sorry, but that's just not how it works. The skeptical position is not something that "needs" to be proved. Rather, it is for these researchers to demonstrate that modern science has it wrong and all the textbooks written in cell-biology are wrong by demonstrating they can use these methods to grow full heads of hair. All of my claims are in line with everything we know and is currently written in these texts.



    I've already shown the enormous problems that these researchers would face. Of course, you don't have the scientific expertise to understand the magnitude of these problems so you ignore it and think it's simply a minor detail. Everything I've claimed is easily supported by everything we know about cell-biology, and this is why practically no scientists are at all interested in these results. Why is it these articles aren't being written in Nature or other reputable scientific media instead of the tabloid trash that has been saying for every year "baldness has been cured!"?
    Colin A. Jahoda is a professor at Durham University in the School of Biological and Biomedical Sciences. Here's a list of his publications:


    Higgins, C.A., Chen, J.C., Cerise, J.E., Jahoda, C.A.B. & Christiano, A.M. (2013). Microenvironmental reprogramming by three-dimensional culture enables dermal papilla cells to induce de novo human hair-follicle growth. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA 110(49): 19679–19688.

    Higgins, CA, Westgate, GE & Jahoda, CA. (2011). Modulation in proteolytic activity is identified as a hallmark of exogen by transcriptional profiling of hair follicles. Journal of Investigative Dermatology 131: 2349-2357.

    Petukhova, L., Duvic, M. Hordinsky, M. Norris, D. Price, V. Shimomura, Y. Kim, H. Singh, P. Lee, A. Chen, W.V. Meyer, K.C. Paus, R. Jahoda, C.A., Amos, C.I. Gregersen, P.K. & Christiano, A.M. (2010). Genome-wide association study in alopecia areata implicates both innate and adaptive immunity. Nature 466(7302 ): 113-117.

    Higgins, Claire A., Westgate, Gillian E. & Jahoda, Colin A. B. (2009). From telogen to exogen: mechanisms underlying formation and subsequent loss of the hair club fiber. Journal of Investigative Dermatology 129: 2100-2108.

    Richardson, GD, Bazzi, H, Fantauzzo, KA, Waters, JM, Crawford, H, Hynd, P, Christiano, AM & Jahoda, CA (2009). KGF and EGF signalling block hair follicle induction and promote interfollicular epidermal fate in developing mouse skin. Development 136(13): 2153-2164.

    Wojciechowicz, K, Markiewicz, E & Jahoda CA (2008). C/EBPalpha identifies differentiating preadipocytes around hair follicles in foetal and neonatal rat and mouse skin. Experimental Dermatology 17(8): 675-680.

    Reynolds A.J. & Jahoda C.A.B. (2004). Cultured human and rat tooth papilla cells induce hair follicle regeneration and fiber growth. Differentiation 72(9-10): 566-575.

    Jahoda, CAB, Kljuic, A, O'Shaughnessy, R, Crossley, N, Whitehouse, CJ, Robinson, M, Reynolds, AJ, Demarchez, M, Porter, RM, Shapiro, L & Christiano, AM (2004). The lanceolate hair rat phenotype results from a missense mutation in a calcium coordinating site of the desmoglein 4 gene. Genomics 83(5): 747-756.

    Fliniaux I., Viallet J.P. Dhouailly D. & Jahoda C.A.B. (2004). Transformation of amnion epithelium into skin. Differentiation 72: 558-565.

    Kljuic, A, Bazzi, H, Sundberg, JP, Martinez-Mir, A, O'Shaughnessy, R, Mahoney, MG, Levy, M, Montagutelli, X, Ahmad, W, Aita, VM, Gordon, D, Uitto, J, Whiting, D, Ott, J, Fischer, S, Gilliam, TC, Jahoda, CAB, Morris, RJ, Panteleyev, AA, Nguyen, VT & Christiano, AM (2003). Desmoglein 4 in hair follicle differentiation and epidermal adhesion: Evidence from inherited hypotrichosis and acquired pemphigus vulgaris. Cell 113(2): 249-260.

    Jahoda, CAB, Whitehouse, CJ, Reynolds, AJ & Hole, N (2003). Hair follicle dermal cells differentiate into adipogenic and osteogenic lineages. Experimental Dermatology 12(6): 849-859.

    Lako, M., Armstrong, L., Cairns, P.M., Harris, S., Hole, N. & Jahoda C.A.B. (2002). Hair follicle dermal cells repopulate the mouse haematopoietic system. Journal of Cell Science 115(20): 3967-3974.

    W. Busby, N. R. Cameron & A. B. C. Jahoda (2002). Tissue engineering matrixes by emulsion templating. Polymer International 51(10): 871-881.

    Jahoda, CAB & Reynolds, AJ (2001). Hair follicle dermal sheath cells: unsung participants in wound healing. Lancet 358(9291): 1445-1448.

    Robinson, M., Reynolds, A.J. , Gharzi, A. & Jahoda, C.A.B. (2001). In vivo induction of hair growth by dermal cells isolated from hair follicles after extended organ culture. Journal of Investigative Dermatology 117(3):

    Gharzi, A., Reynolds A.J. & Jahoda, C.A.B. (2003). Plasticity of hair follicle dermal cells in wound healing and induction. Exp. Dermatol (12): 126-136.

    Whitehouse, C.J., Huckle, J.W. & Reynolds, A.J.and Jahoda C.A.B. (2002). Genes that are differentially expressed in rat vibrissa follicle germinative epithelium in vivo show altered expression patterns after extended organ culture. Exp. Dermatol (11): 542-555.

    Robinson, M., Reynolds, A.J., Gharzi, A. & Jahoda, C.A.B. (2001). In vivo induction of hair growth by dermal cells isolated from hair follicles after extended organ culture. J. Invest. Dermatol (117): 596-604.

    Jahoda, C.A.B., Oliver, R.F., Reynolds, A.J., Forrester, J.C., Gillespie, J.W., Cserhalmi-Friedman, P.B., Christiano, A.M. & Horne, K.A. (2001). Transplanted human hair follicle dermal papillae induce hair growth in the mouse. Exp. Dermatol (10): 229-237.

    Ferraris, C., Chevalier, G., Favier, B., Jahoda, C.A.B. & Dhouailly, D. (2000). Adult corneal epithelium basal cells possess the capacity to activate epidermal, pilosebaceous, and sweat gland genetic programs in response to embryonic dermal stimuli. Development (127): 5487-5495.

    Reynolds, A.J., Lawrence, C., Cserhalmi-Friedman, P.B., Christiano, A.M. & Jahoda C.A.B. (1999). Trans-gender induction of hair follicles. Nature (402): 33-34.

    Reynolds, A.J. & Jahoda, C.A.B. (1996). Hair matrix germinative epidermal cells confer follicle-inducing capabilities on dermal sheath and high passage papilla cells. Development (122): 3085-3094.

    Jahoda, C.A.B., Horne, K.A., Mauger, A., Bard, S. & Sengel, P. (1992). Cellular and extracellular involvement in the regeneration of the rat vibrissa follicle. Development (114): 887-897.

    Reynolds, A.J. & Jahoda, C.A.B. (1992). Cultured dermal papilla cells induce follicle formation and hair growth by transdifferentiation of an adult epidermis. Development (115): 587-593.


    All of which are published in peer reviewed journals, not tabloids. He is as real a scientist as it gets.



    Quote Originally Posted by Molten
    The fact of the matter is, most scientists don't care enough about these results to publish their skepticism which is why I ask you email them for their own opinions. This is what real journalists do when something major has been published just so they could get an idea of how supportive or skeptical the other experts are. I've certainly asked my professors (some of which are renowned experts and have published highly cited papers) about this and they all think it will never work.




    I don't doubt the competence of scientists such as Jahoda and others working on this and I'm sure they are well aware of the daunting challenges I've proposed in this thread already. For one reason or another, they have not mentioned how they plan to get around these issues or even begin solving them. Either they are currently in the process of working these out or think it's a minor detail that doesn't really matter in the end. In both cases, they will find that their methods simply will not work at all.



    Ah, yes. Let's accuse the skeptic of being a shill working from the inside. This is not exactly a new tactic.

    If I have no idea what I'm talking about, why then do my words seem to frustrate you so much?
    I'm curious what is your background and in what field do you work? You sound like someone who thinks they're a scientist but is way out of their depth, like a sophomore student majoring in some form of biological sciences.

    I'll leave you with something a genomics professor sent me during my undergrad and has stuck with me for a long time because it seems fitting in this conversation:


  3. #103
    Senior Member Arashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    3,888

    Default

    Agreed, greatjob, I think this Molten guy isnt even an academic.

  4. #104
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    43

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by greatjob! View Post
    All of which are published in peer reviewed journals, not tabloids. He is as real a scientist as it gets.
    And, where did I say "he's not a real scientist"? Do you have reading comprehension issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by greatjob! View Post
    I'm curious what is your background and in what field do you work? You sound like someone who thinks they're a scientist but is way out of their depth, like a sophomore student majoring in some form of biological sciences.
    I fail to see how this is relevant at all, and usually people who request others' credentials typically means they have no solid argument to begin with and are planning to use ad-hominem fallacies.

    All you need to know is that I've taken all of the undergraduate courses on the science behind these breakthroughs and have actually done research and published with professors for the past 4 years. That definitely qualifies me somewhat as a "scientist".


    Quote Originally Posted by greatjob! View Post
    I'll leave you with something a genomics professor sent me during my undergrad and has stuck with me for a long time because it seems fitting in this conversation:
    Yes. Let's defer to the expertise of a science-fiction writer and his silly "laws". Usually when people (mostly layman such as yourself) cite these "laws", it means you can no longer debate the practicalities and science convincingly. Most real scientists scoff at Clarke's Three Laws.

  5. #105
    Senior Member Arashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    3,888

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Molten View Post
    All you need to know is that I've taken all of the undergraduate courses on the science behind these breakthroughs and have actually done research and published with professors for the past 4 years. That definitely qualifies me somewhat as a "scientist".
    I don't know if that's true. I do know that you're not very good at making a point (saying "just ask scientists" isnt really helpful you know).

    Anyway I guess we will know quite soon. Those Taiwanese are starting clinical trials right now and if Jahoda's news is as good as it sounds (we'll know in 3 months), then I'm sure they'll start clinical trials soon too. He already said he was planning that. I have a lot more faith in them than in some anonymous guy on a forum who can't even make meaningful argumentation for his statements.

  6. #106
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    4,423

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi View Post
    I don't know if that's true. I do know that you're not very good at making a point (saying "just ask scientists" isnt really helpful you know).

    Anyway I guess we will know quite soon. Those Taiwanese are starting clinical trials right now and if Jahoda's news is as good as it sounds (we'll know in 3 months), then I'm sure they'll start clinical trials soon too. He already said he was planning that. I have a lot more faith in them than in some anonymous guy on a forum who can't even make meaningful argumentation for his statements.
    Two questions:

    1) Who's going to fund the clinical trials?
    2) What would the final protocol be for a treatment? Cell extraction, cultivate and inject back into scalp and DONE?

  7. #107
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    298

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Molten View Post
    For baldness, we have no idea what combination of genes causes it, and there's no reason to think we will anytime soon.
    If you search the literature, several genes have already been identified.

    Quote Originally Posted by Molten View Post
    Also, there's no reason to think that even if we do, we'll instantly know which genes to manipulate without causing a real permanent damage.
    This is true. Off-target effects are a real risk with any kind of genetic engineering.

    However, the more we understand about the underlying mechanisms --- the more potential avenues for treatment we have. It is easier to target the expressed products.

  8. #108
    Doctor Representative 35YrsAfter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Alpharetta, GA
    Posts
    1,361

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by greatjob! View Post

    I'll leave you with something a genomics professor sent me during my undergrad and has stuck with me for a long time because it seems fitting in this conversation:

    Thumbs up for optimism.

    Chuck

Similar Threads

  1. Human Hair grown in Lab!
    By baldozer in forum Cutting Edge / Future Treatments
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 10-25-2013, 10:26 AM
  2. All sides are created equal?
    By irishpotatoes322 in forum Men's Hair Loss: Start Your Own Topic
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-02-2013, 08:43 AM
  3. I created a subreddit on Reddit about Dr.Nigam. Check it out.
    By Westonci in forum Cutting Edge / Future Treatments
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-20-2013, 10:52 AM
  4. Human hearts can now be replaced
    By clandestine in forum Cutting Edge / Future Treatments
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 03-09-2012, 06:00 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

» IAHRS

hair transplant surgeons

» The Bald Truth

» Recent Threads

1800 graft repair case results by Dr. Lindsey
Yesterday 08:38 AM
Last Post By Dr. Lindsey
Yesterday 08:38 AM
Navigating the German Job Market as a Kenyan Citizen
11-04-2023 06:31 AM
Last Post By Keegan212
Yesterday 03:51 AM
DR HAKAN DOGANAY/ 4500 GRAFTS / Implanter Pen+FUE
03-26-2024 04:15 PM
Last Post By Hakan Doganay, MD
03-26-2024 04:15 PM
The Mane Event for Thursday, June 15th, 2023
06-15-2023 02:59 PM
Last Post By gisecit34
03-26-2024 08:05 AM