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  1. #21
    Senior Member Pentarou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan555 View Post
    If it is creating vellus hairs, doesn't it stand to reason that it may help maintain what you have? Maintenance alone is worthwhile, even with no regrowth.
    Not if it hurts like ****, can lead to infections and there's proven pain free alternatives for pure maintenance (Fin, Dut).

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pentarou View Post
    Not if it hurts like ****, can lead to infections and there's proven pain free alternatives for pure maintenance (Fin, Dut).
    Fin and Dut are also proven to cause serious side effects (erectile dysfunction, manboobs and drop in libido).

    I'd rather put up with dermarolling every now and then for 10-20 minutes than take that dick poison.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellouser View Post
    Fin and Dut are also proven to cause serious side effects (erectile dysfunction, manboobs and drop in libido).

    I'd rather put up with dermarolling every now and then for 10-20 minutes than take that dick poison.
    Come on man, surely you know better than this? Fin side effects have been proven to occur in a small percentage of users, even Spencer Kobren has stated this about Propecia. No offense but the idea of supplementing a known DHT blocker, FDA approved for a a stick with pins on it seems to be a bit silly. HT's + the Big3 actually do something, all of this dermarolling is been based on one study and nothing more.

    For all you know, for the individual in the study, the regrowth could be down to nothing more than an excellent response to Min and some other treatments possibly. There is no way I will be partaking in this venture, aka. butchering my scalp and not only risking infection but also possibly damaging hair follicles in the process.

    Do any of you who are doing this actually have proof that this process does not damage hair follicles?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pentarou View Post
    Not if it hurts like ****, can lead to infections and there's proven pain free alternatives for pure maintenance (Fin, Dut).
    "pain free" ... This has to be a joke... I know a lot of people is cool with fin, I get that and I respect it, and I know not everyone suffers from side effects...
    But for people like me, growing ****ing boobs and living with erectile disfunction for 5 months is not exactly pain free...

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dav7 View Post
    Come on man, surely you know better than this? Fin side effects have been proven to occur in a small percentage of users, even Spencer Kobren has stated this about Propecia. No offense but the idea of supplementing a known DHT blocker, FDA approved for a a stick with pins on it seems to be a bit silly. HT's + the Big3 actually do something, all of this dermarolling is been based on one study and nothing more.

    For all you know, for the individual in the study, the regrowth could be down to nothing more than an excellent response to Min and some other treatments possibly. There is no way I will be partaking in this venture, aka. butchering my scalp and not only risking infection but also possibly damaging hair follicles in the process.

    Do any of you who are doing this actually have proof that this process does not damage hair follicles?
    Read the response just after the one you made.

    You're dismissing very real issues with DHT inhibitors.

    Bottom line is, Finasteride has run its course and we should have had superior alternatives a long time ago. This is stone age shit. I won't deny its efficacy though, it works, and can work VERY well for some... but its still GARBAGE when you think about the treatments we should have in 2014.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Pentarou's Avatar
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    Fin's crap, but it's approved for MPB, has been shown to work to keep hair counts stable over 10 years, and it's available today, it's not some far-off empty promise. If I'm balding now, I'll do what I can with proven means now, not put hope in completely unproven stuff.

    As experimental treated go, dermarolling is relatively speaking not too risky, as long as the user carries out sterilisation of the roller and basic hygene to prevent infection, but really, that amount of pain and bloodshed and inconvenience ain't worth it for maintenance, certainly if there's no objective proof! Regrowth on the magnitude of the journal-published alleged study, yes, certainly if only for just 12 once-weekly sessions, but the inconvenient truth is that isn't happening. For anyone. Using the dermarolling protocol as a substitute for a finasteride or Big 3 regimen for maintenance at this point in time is insanity.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pentarou View Post
    Fin's crap, but it's approved for MPB, has been shown to work to keep hair counts stable over 10 years, and it's available today, it's not some far-off empty promise. If I'm balding now, I'll do what I can with proven means now, not put hope in completely unproven stuff.

    As experimental treated go, dermarolling is relatively speaking not too risky, as long as the user carries out sterilisation of the roller and basic hygene to prevent infection, but really, that amount of pain and bloodshed and inconvenience ain't worth it for maintenance, certainly if there's no objective proof! Regrowth on the magnitude of the journal-published alleged study, yes, certainly if only for just 12 once-weekly sessions, but the inconvenient truth is that isn't happening. For anyone. Using the dermarolling protocol as a substitute for a finasteride or Big 3 regimen for maintenance at this point in time is insanity.
    And to add to that list, the possibility of damaging hair follicles. For instance, I have cut my hair twice in the last year by myself (won't be doing it again), and I was informed by a man during a consultation in a hair transplant clinic that bad hair cuts, e.g. cutting clumps of hair out by accident etc. can damage follicles. I cannot imagine what a dermaroller would be doing in comparison.

    Wouldn't it not be the case that with constant breaking up of skin on the scalp that you are damaging the hair regrowth cycle itself? Also, given that DHT suppresses blood flow to the follicles, thus leading to loss - isn't constantly drawing a lot of blood out of the scalp via a dermaroller going to make things even worse, as one is not only constantly pulling out hairs, but blood from the scalp on top of that?

    I'm sorry, but all of this seems to me to be a bit too wishy-washy and new age like for my tastes and I'll stick to the done and dusted treatments that have actually been proven to work by scientists. However, we're all adults here, so if you want to do it, then it's your choices.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dav7 View Post
    Also, given that DHT suppresses blood flow to the follicles, thus leading to loss - isn't constantly drawing a lot of blood out of the scalp via a dermaroller going to make things even worse, as one is not only constantly pulling out hairs, but blood from the scalp on top of that?
    .
    Supressing blood flow is not even the way DHT affects hair growth. Also, if it were about blood flow, then the dermaroller would be the best thing, as it promotes angiogenesis (but I don't think that is enough to prevent hair loss)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav7 View Post
    I'm sorry, but all of this seems to me to be a bit too wishy-washy and new age like for my tastes and I'll stick to the done and dusted treatments that have actually been proven to work by scientists. However, we're all adults here, so if you want to do it, then it's your choices.
    I don't think this is new age. In fact, there is A LOT of science behind wounding... The problem is, I don't think the dermaroller by itself can give us the kind of wounding we would really need. And we also probably need higher quantities of growth factors (or from a whole different kind, like FGF9) in order to achive our goals.

    Also, I know you are right about sticking to the approved treatments. But I have always thought that experimental treatments like this are for people like me, that is, people who for one or another reason, are beyond the approved treatments (in my case, side effects)...

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dav7 View Post
    Why are you guys doing this, aka. butchering your scalp with needles on a weekly basis when it's not even a proven and approved method for preventing hair loss and regrowing hair? Also, isn't it rather dangerous to be doing this when it come to risk of infection? If I recall, aren't dermarollers meant for bad skin problems and as a temporary (and not permanent) solution to that problem?

    And lastly, isn't it possible that the regrowth displayed in that original study was simply a patient who responded very well to minoxidil and that it had nothing to do with dermarolling?
    The group with the dermarolling had dramatically better results than the group with minoxidil alone. It's also known that wounds cause the body to release growth factors, so it's not without a scientific basis. Regarding the "butchering" of one's scalp, I personally think the guys making themselves bleed are ridiculous. I have talked to prominent hair transplant surgeons who advocate dermarolling and they do not recommend such aggressive applications. I have never made myself bleed when I dermaroll and never would for fear of infection, scar tissue, and damage to existing hair follicles.

  10. #30
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    Question Derma Roller & Minoxidil Study

    I wonder whether you guys ever mentioned/discussed the following (pretty new) study?

    A randomized evaluator blinded study of effect of microneedling in androgenetic alopecia: A pilot study
    Date of Web Publication 6-Jul-2013
    http://www.ijtrichology.com/article....;aulast=Dhurat

    In short:
    Using a dermal roller and 5% minoxidil, they reported the following results::

    “In the Microneedling group, 41 (82%) patients reported more than 50% improvement...
    .. versus...
    ... only 2 (4.5%) patients in the Minoxidil group. Unsatisfied patients to conventional therapy for AGA got good response with Microneedling treatment.”

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