Other aspects to work on

[sdsurfin]

I think that there are some aspects of this issue that forum members could have a greater influence on, and might be overlooking.

For one, the only truly revolutionary research being done is stem cell based and coming from Tsuji labs and Jahoda. What they are accomplishing will, I think, definitely constitute a cure in the coming century. However, I also think that turning follicle creation into a cure is going to become more of a mechanical problem than a medical one. New hair is growing- they have proven it. They will certainly get good hair to grow once the genetics and stem cell issues are figured out bit by bit. However, what may take a very long time is figuring out how to get these new hairs onto the head in a way that makes sense cosmetically. HT surgeons are barely able to point hair in the right direction and patterns, and these new follicles will need to be inserted or induced to grow in a subcutaneous way. This is going to require some sort of system/scaffold/automated device/technique that is as of yet not invented.

You don't have to be a biologist to make inroads into solving this problem, in fact it will probably be solved by someone in an engineering or technical field. How do we get people to work on this NOW, so that when the scientists are ready with their new follicles, there is a way to put them to work? I'm wondering if the new follicles can't be inserted as some kind of mesh or system. Either way, whoever figures out the mechanics of hair replacement stands to make a lot of money. Maybe Dr. Wesley would be able to start brainstorming and tackling this issue. I'm sure the japanese are already thinking about how to do this too, but the more we can push competition and create ideas, the better.

On a final note to Dr. Wesley- How come you guys are trying to make the removal process better, but essentially hand cutting holes for insertion? I understand the scars are smaller, but the insertion methods are still hardly able to mimic natural growth or density. I find it hard to believe that a special machine could not be used to digitally plot out the new location of the follicles (a 3D map of the scalp with insertion dots could also, with 3D graphics technology, be used to paint a picture of how the new transplant is going to look), and another robotic device used to make the new tiny holes and implant the follicles at the proper angle automatically. This would also save huge amounts of time as far as doctors and assistants hovering over patients to insert the grafts. Sadly, I doubt most HT surgeons want to make surgery cheaper or less skill based- but if I was an HT doctor like Wesley I would be looking to build something like artas, but which automates the entire procedure. Just some thoughts from a novice.

[moore]

Very interesting.
Posts like this one of yours are the main reason why this forum can bring positive ideas.

To give you my point of view:
as I said previously, If I could choose, I would definitely try to rejuvenate each and every follicles before even trying to generate new ones. What you get then is the maximal density you were born with. I think a computer program could map the placement of follicles on a scalp area and then try to guess how an increased density would look like. For this reason, I was myself thinking about buying a USB microscope, out of curiosity, to make some tests.
Even more, I was doing some research to try to edit the "androgenic alopecia" wikipedia page, which is a mess.

[youngin]

You have to have a specific problem before you can fix it mechanically. We have no idea how the stem cells will act.. will the follicle grow inward? will it mimic the original hair and grow in the correct direction? will it just grow straight up? who knows? It's really useless to try and think of a "fix" without a defined problem.

[youngin]

Also, the technology does not exist to make a robot faster than a human at implanting. Watch a video of someone like Dr Doganay with a Choi implanter pen. Highly doubtful a robot can go that fast any time soon. It's just a matter of the price of labor, and adopting faster techniques.

[Arashi]

I think the angle will be the least of the problems. Once it's a functional follicle but the angle is wrong, it can simply be extracted and implanted again but this time with the correct angle.

[clandestine]

I think the angle will be the least of the problems. Once it's a functional follicle but the angle is wrong, it can simply be extracted and implanted again but this time with the correct angle.

That's interesting, actually.

I've never heard anyone voice a solution like that before.

[Desmond84]

I think that there are some aspects of this issue that forum members could have a greater influence on, and might be overlooking.

For one, the only truly revolutionary research being done is stem cell based and coming from Tsuji labs and Jahoda. What they are accomplishing will, I think, definitely constitute a cure in the coming century. However, I also think that turning follicle creation into a cure is going to become more of a mechanical problem than a medical one. New hair is growing- they have proven it. They will certainly get good hair to grow once the genetics and stem cell issues are figured out bit by bit. However, what may take a very long time is figuring out how to get these new hairs onto the head in a way that makes sense cosmetically. HT surgeons are barely able to point hair in the right direction and patterns, and these new follicles will need to be inserted or induced to grow in a subcutaneous way. This is going to require some sort of system/scaffold/automated device/technique that is as of yet not invented.

You don't have to be a biologist to make inroads into solving this problem, in fact it will probably be solved by someone in an engineering or technical field. How do we get people to work on this NOW, so that when the scientists are ready with their new follicles, there is a way to put them to work? I'm wondering if the new follicles can't be inserted as some kind of mesh or system. Either way, whoever figures out the mechanics of hair replacement stands to make a lot of money. Maybe Dr. Wesley would be able to start brainstorming and tackling this issue. I'm sure the japanese are already thinking about how to do this too, but the more we can push competition and create ideas, the better.

On a final note to Dr. Wesley- How come you guys are trying to make the removal process better, but essentially hand cutting holes for insertion? I understand the scars are smaller, but the insertion methods are still hardly able to mimic natural growth or density. I find it hard to believe that a special machine could not be used to digitally plot out the new location of the follicles (a 3D map of the scalp with insertion dots could also, with 3D graphics technology, be used to paint a picture of how the new transplant is going to look), and another robotic device used to make the new tiny holes and implant the follicles at the proper angle automatically. This would also save huge amounts of time as far as doctors and assistants hovering over patients to insert the grafts. Sadly, I doubt most HT surgeons want to make surgery cheaper or less skill based- but if I was an HT doctor like Wesley I would be looking to build something like artas, but which automates the entire procedure. Just some thoughts from a novice.

What a great post! These are all true! Let's not forget that Tsuji lab tried to overcome this problem by growing the hair germ to maturity before implanting them via the FUT technique...this worked but will not be sufficient to give us teenage density (120-150/cm2)...

If anyone in their early 20s is reading this and loves Science, this is your calling. Our community needs you. Enrol in a Biotechnology course and solve these problems with us

We need help from all over the globe...no one will care about the 'cure' as much as we do! Let's overcome this once and for all

[Axel]

Cool, another project to add the list of the crowdfunding platform projects...

"Design of an injection device for embrionic hair follicles"

With Tsuji/Jahoda and Dr Ohyama's work, we have all we need to solve the puzzle, and we play a BIG ROLE. The design of the device shouldn't be a major problem. It'd take time (couple of years), but it is perfectly doable. I work surrounded by biotech companies and I can tell you they're doing way more complicated stuff. As usual, the only thing separating us from the "solution" (not even a cure since it is an engineering problem) are the funds...

So our Mission is get this people to work together, providing them with funds for joint research and a medical device so they can crack the final problem: insert the embrionic follicles in the correct way in the skin.... (is here where Aderans failed an run out of funds, right?)

[sdsurfin]

Axel, why don't you put together a kickstarter now? It really only takes one person, although in this case you might want to team up with a couple people like desmond in order to work out what exactly it is you want to fund. I would also write letters/call people like Jahoda an ask them what they think would be the best goal of a funding campaign for hair loss. I'm sure they have some good thoughts about where money is needed. I suggest a campaign to put together a new team of interdisciplinary hair loss researchers, including a businessperson, who can then take over the funding aspects after the team is created.

Another option would be to do a kickstarter to form a nonprofit company that simply works to consolidate hair loss research and tries to get existing researchers to collaborate and share information. This might be cheaper and more doable. Imagine if you could pay 5 people like desmond to sit around all day, dig through existng research, make sense of connections, and also communicate with top scientists. I think all of this is very doable, and seeing how often some people post on here, there's gotta be someone who has twenty mintues each day to work on contacting the right people and getting this together. Once the goal is ironed out (and this will be easier once you talk to some existing researchers), the fundraising should not be a problem. There are tons of bald people out there who would give a couple bucks, and I'm sure there's also a forum reader out there who knows the business of fundraising and could help get it out and marketed correctly.

Lastly, I don't think things like this need to necessarily be crowd funded. I think once a goal is set, you should try to fund it as many ways as possible. Someone has got to know someone else who works in fundraising, and there are alos existing hair loss nonprofits and asociations that im sure you could talk to and liason with in order to get contacts for possible funding. I'm guessing spencer kobren could be of much use as well.

[sdsurfin]

What a great post! These are all true! Let's not forget that Tsuji lab tried to overcome this problem by growing the hair germ to maturity before implanting them via the FUT technique...this worked but will not be sufficient to give us teenage density (120-150/cm2)...

If anyone in their early 20s is reading this and loves Science, this is your calling. Our community needs you. Enrol in a Biotechnology course and solve these problems with us

We need help from all over the globe...no one will care about the 'cure' as much as we do! Let's overcome this once and for all

Hey desmond, I was thinking today-
What is stopping Jahoda and Christiano from trying their 3D spheroid test on human scalp skin? Doesn't it make perfect sense that DP cells implanted into baby foreskin would not be surrounded by the proper cells and environment that would boost gene expression? We have heard many times that even slick bald scalp still retains stem cells. Might 3D spheroids implanted into a scalp not grow much better due to existing structures? Jahoda seemed concerned that he needs to figure out how to engineer new follicles with the proper angle, color etc, but might the stem cells already in the scalp not guide these factors? It seems like what replicel is doing is halfway there, but they should really be using 3D cultures of DP cells. what the hell is the holdup, someone somewhere should test this on people and not baby skin on mice. My worry is that if only 22 percent of genes were expressed in jahoda's follicles, and they at some point manage to implant these follicles, would the existing environment and stem cells not make them susceptible to DHT? I mean, when a transplant occurs, the whole follicle is inserted with skin around it, but inserting just a few stem cells might not separate them from the recipient environment enough to make them resistant to balding. I'd love to hear what jahoda has to say about these questions- does anybody on here have any kind of contact or relationship to RESEARCHERS and not hair transplant doctors (who don't seem to know much or care much about scientific progress). I think it's crucial for intelligent forum members to establish a connection to the scientific community and help each other out, financially or otherwise. That stupid 10K bet that arashi was proposing should instead be spent as seed money for a collaborative effort to fund research and create an online research forum where students and cotors can weigh in.